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Manning Wardle "Old I" and "K" classes


hartleymartin
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Hi everyone. I'm looking at doing some Australian conversions of the new Minerva models Manning Wardle K class. There were examples of this type used in Australia, but there are also some rather interesting other prototypes which also operated here.

 

In particular, there is "Pioneer" which ran variously as no.s 9N, 394, 394X and its final number was 1001, though it is thought that it never actually carried this number. From what I can gather, "Pioneer" was an "Old I class" with a number of distinctive features such as a larger box-saddle tank, a non-standard bunker and a what appears to have been a locally-built "cab". (Wikipedia article here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X1001) I have some information on the differences between the Old I and K classes from the Colonel Stephens web-page: http://colonelstephenssociety.co.uk/locomotive notes topics/manning wardle locos.html 

 

It seems that the K class was 6" longer in the wheelbase and 6" longer overall, but most other dimensions were nearly identical. Converting a Minerva RTR K class would involve a new, larger box-tank, home-build cab and new rear coal bunker. The rear buffers I can obtain - they appear to be "Turton" type buffers, which are standard items for NSWGR and are available as either pewter castings or brass sprung versions.

 

Can anyone provide some further data or know of drawings of the Old I and K classes that I could use for comparison?

 

(Image from Wikipedia)

NSWGR_Locomotive_394X.jpg

 

 

Another photo from the 1860s (copyright embedded in image) Note the single wooden brake-block on the rear axle, compared to the all-wheel metal brakes above.

03, Pioneer, 1860s - Driver - Thomas Newport; Fireman - unknown; On footplate - William Sixmith -- Loco imported to NSW by Sixsmith & Newport.jpg

 

 

I could make life much easier for myself if I just selected the S292/P127 class which were off-the-shelf K class Manning Wardles:
From Newcastle Living Histories website:
7639-max

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There were three other examples of the "Old I Class" which were used on the Blacktown to Richmond Railway line in the 1860s: http://www.flickriver.com/photos/uon/7731130130/ (link only, can't insert since it is hosted on Flickr)

 

It is a rather early example, builder's number 89 of 1863, named "Richmond" it was  1 of 3 locos to work the Blacktown-Richmond Railway. It was then sent to the Kogarah-Sans Souci Tramway in 1887, Box Vale Colley 1890 and was used by the NSW Public Works Department for construction work some time after 1900, where it became PWD No. 13. It was then send to Waratah State Quarry in 1923 and later that same year was sent to Newcastle for scrapping. This too would be an interesting project, basically requiring a new, larger tank and a new cab, but retaining the coal bunker of the RTR model.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Corbs said:

[Manning Wardle 0-6-0ST, B/No.89/1863, NSW, n.d.]

 

Interesting that the front rods have been removed, I presume to negotiate sharp curves?

 

It looks to me that all the bushings are out. Under repair/servicing? It may also be awaiting the scrap-man since the turret is missing from atop the firebox.

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There were a few other Manning Wardles in operation in the early days of the NSWGR. I wonder if the enlarged saddle tank and the cab was something done by Manning Wardle, or something done locally.

 

No. 29, with a rather tall chimney.

 

17420_a014_a014000360.jpg

 

 

A photo of no. 29 in operation on the Richmond Line, with a shorter chimney:

 

17420_a014_a014000361.jpg

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I'm guessing that the designs were fairly standard, but I imagine that the manufacturer would do various easy customisations. The saddle-tank is sheet-metal and would not be difficult to change. Of course, I now realise that the early photo of "Pioneer" with what looks like a standard saddle tank is a pretty strong indicator that the larger saddle tank was a local job and not the work of Manning Wardle.

 

It looks like the buyers would probably do their own customisations to suit local requirements - the larger saddle tank in Australia is no surprise - in a dry country like Australia with long distances and often long distances between water supply points. We even had special water tank vehicles just for transporting water to various locations, and others which basically acted as a second tender.

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The S&D kit is white metal, fairly old, but does offer variations I believe – I've never actually built one of their kits though I do have a couple of etched brass 'K' class kits "in stock" – ie mouldering forlornly on a shelf somewhere! I'd advise checking out their website...

 

 

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A closer look at the drawings (thanks, doilum!) confirms that the main difference between the Old I and the K classes is that the K has a 6" longer boiler, and an extra 6" length added between the 2nd and 3rd axles to accomodate this. Otherwise, they were the same basic design with the same basic measurements. 

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38 minutes ago, hartleymartin said:

A closer look at the drawings (thanks, doilum!) confirms that the main difference between the Old I and the K classes is that the K has a 6" longer boiler, and an extra 6" length added between the 2nd and 3rd axles to accomodate this. Otherwise, they were the same basic design with the same basic measurements. 

 

Yes, I think when you study the drawings and the articles Don Townsley wrote - there is one in the first MRJ compendium on Aldwyth a K class which was still basically in original as-built condition (lots of useful detail shots) - you realise that like so much else the locos were as much about steady improvements of a basic design as anything else, with of course quite a few getting different specific features at the request of the original purchasers to add to the variety, let alone the subsequent changes made through the years.

 

When I scratchbuilt my I class back in the early 90's in order to ensure that it was different from the later/larger K's I gave it the early square rivetted tank, the fluted safty valve, and the lift-up smokebox door, but with the larger wrap-over roof, and slightly better vaccum brakes!

 

870887325_RMwebMW01.jpg.cc111a0c66245358daf35ca18666fb79.jpg

 

I do think though that the shorter wheelbase does show up compared to the K's.

 

 

 

 

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Quite a few Manning Wardles ended up in Australia. There were many that ended up at industrial operations and they changed hands quite a bit. The four main classes that I can identify as ended up here were the Old I and K class 0-6-0s and F and H class 0-4-0s. 

 

I would be interested in information which could make it possible for me to do a complete list of Manning Wardles in Australia, or at least in NSW where we operated standard gauge. I now wonder where the heck did I put my copy of the Gazetteer of Industrial Steam Locomotives in the Illawarra by K McCarthy.

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You have 21 new from Manning Wardle.

#8-11,39,42,43 sound like early main line locos for NSW govt

88,89,109 are old I class also NSW govt

163,418,739 are i/c 060st for Mort &sons Sydney

,918&919 are K class for NSW but rebuilt as single loco by Hoskins of Lithgow

1802 was a 040 oc for Hoskins Port Kemble

1896-1900 were H class 040oc for NSW pwd Sydney

1802&1896 shown as preserved.

Will get the full details typed up and emailed.

There may have also been some second hand locomotives. If You have a works number I can look it up.

 

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I always forget about "Possum" because it is an unusual example - certainly quite different from the others.

 

http://www.australiansteam.com/Possum.htm

 

I flipped through the Compendium and found it interesting to note that the standard load for the old I class manning waddles on the Blacktown to Richmond line was four 4-wheel carriages plus break van. Considering the line had 1 in 30 grades and the locos only had brake blocks acting on the rear axle, it must have been quite a ride!

 

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40 minutes ago, hartleymartin said:

I always forget about "Possum" because it is an unusual example - certainly quite different from the others.

 

http://www.australiansteam.com/Possum.htm

 

I flipped through the Compendium and found it interesting to note that the standard load for the old I class manning waddles on the Blacktown to Richmond line was four 4-wheel carriages plus break van. Considering the line had 1 in 30 grades and the locos only had brake blocks acting on the rear axle, it must have been quite a ride!

 

 

40 minutes ago, hartleymartin said:

I always forget about "Possum" because it is an unusual example - certainly quite different from the others.

 

http://www.australiansteam.com/Possum.htm

 

I flipped through the Compendium and found it interesting to note that the standard load for the old I class manning waddles on the Blacktown to Richmond line was four 4-wheel carriages plus break van. Considering the line had 1 in 30 grades and the locos only had brake blocks acting on the rear axle, it must have been quite a ride!

 

Sorry missed a couple.

1780&81. H class to NSW govt.

1781 is at Museum of Applied Arts and Sciences Ultimo Sydney.

1802 Possum is at Lithgow

1896 Cardiff is at Thirlmere NSW

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I'll have to do a search to obtain a copy of that Manning Wardle book. Between that and a trip to the Australian Railway Historical Society archives, I reckon I can put together a good presentation and an article. Not my original plan, but something I think is worth pursuing.

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A bit of further research shows that the Manning Wardle K class No.s 292 and 293 ran on the Camden Line, from 1901 they were on the Carlingford Line and between 1904 and 1907 they were on the Yass Line. In all three places they ran with a KA type Tramcar.

 

Whilst it is an end-on image, it is pretty clear that 533X (formerly 293) is hauling the KA tramcar and the four-wheel goods vehicle is a D Truck.

 

r0_44_1168_701_w1200_h678_fmax.jpg.5f980f2120a4c89b0919e98ad3352831.jpg

 

 

Whilst obscured by the KA tramcar, it is certainly another K class Manning Wardle. Here shown near Elderslie on the Camden line when flooding caused the train to become stranded.522827642_chs10873_strandednearElderslie.jpg.c558461eecbe50bf1e18c666f62a2131.jpg

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