Hornby 66s

[adb968008]

13 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

The paint looks very nicely done on these and despite the age of the model it is still a nice representation of a class 66. For the typical price in shops these are quite the bargain IMO. In a way they are a good example of what a Railroad model should be - no frills but a good representation of the prototype, nicely finished and inexpensive.

Completely agree.

I really didnt like how Railroad started skimping on paint (lining on Adderley Hall etc) it made it look cheap.

 

looking at the image of Evening Star (the 66) above, even I’m tempted to a railroad one. I saw the large logo 66789 the other week, if the railroad version is similarly paint finished without economies I could go for one of those too.

 

 

[toboldlygo]

1 minute ago, adb968008 said:

Completely agree.

I really didnt like how Railroad started skimping on paint (lining on Adderley Hall etc) it made it look cheap.

 

looking at the image of Evening Star (the 66) above, even I’m tempted to a railroad one. I saw the large logo 66789 the other week, if the railroad version is similarly paint finished without economies I could go for one of those too.

 

 

 

They do not come in a Railroad Box for £67.50 either...

[Hroth]

11 hours ago, toboldlygo said:

 

They do not come in a Railroad Box for £67.50 either...

When announced the price was nearer £100 (particularly for 66779)  and suddenly dropped to the £70 mark. I've the feeling that this was done to reposition the Hornby model with the announcement of the Hattons model.  Not as an undercut, purely in realisation that Bachmann would perhaps feel squeezed and might act accordingly.  The box was designed for "main range" and hadn't caught up with the price reduction to Railroad levels.

 

I ended up getting 66779 too, though it was a close call with "The Flying Dustman".....

[adb968008]

So the thing the marketing guys have possibly learned is putting lipstick on a pig actually works, as long as the price is right.

 

How that affects those thinking of making designer sows in the future, has to be seen, but every pig sold is one less sow, unless people start collecting 66779’s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by adb968008

[phil.prior]

On top of the price add TTS decoder and a sound loco for just over a hundred pounds very good value 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by phil.prior
soung=sound sausage fingers

[Ian Hargrave]

All in all,Hornby got this one right,didn’t they ? Good for them.

[jjb1970]

I think there has always been an opportunity for a good lower tier Railrad type range. Piko have made an art of developing a three tier range in Germany (maybe four tier now as I believe they're developing an Expert Plus level). I think the problem with Hornby Railroad was there was no consistency or logic to its positioning, it veered between tat like the old Lima Deltic through the decent ex-Lima tooling up to models like the Crosti 9F and P2 which were very nicely done new tooling models. The good ex-Lima tooling (like the 66, 47, 73) still offers basic but good models, with the new Hornby motor bogie they offer smooth and quiet running and if well finished still offer a nice model. Get the price right and they still make a good case for themselves. And the new generation tooling is very nice, my boy has Tornado and it is very nice and runs beautifully.

 

My feeling is Hornby should follow Piko and split Railroad, maybe Railroad Start and Railroad Hobby or something so that the good models aimed at the model hobbyist market are separated from the entry level stuff for the residual trainset/toy segment. And get the price right.

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

So the thing the marketing guys have possibly learned is putting lipstick on a pig actually works, as long as the price is right.

 

How that affects those thinking of making designer sows in the future, has to be seen, but every pig sold is one less sow, unless people start collecting 66779’s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A very useful chap, the pig!

 

20 minutes ago, phil.prior said:

On top of the price add TTS decoder and a sound loco for just over a hundred pounds very good value 

 

 

I got a 66 TTS decoder from Antics Online for 31 quid inc delivery ( don't think there are any left now) so it totalled under 100 quid.

 

It's a smooth runner and the sound is entertaining.

 

[RAF96]

Maybe Hornby could use the Pro label - as seen in Railmaster for adding extra functionality - as the branding of their hi-detail hi-price model range. Railroad could remain as the cheap and cheerful end of the range and as suggested split into junior and senior brackets.

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

All in all,Hornby got this one right,didn’t they ? Good for them.

But at what cost to the hobby ?

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

My feeling is Hornby should follow Piko and split Railroad, maybe Railroad Start and Railroad Hobby or something so that the good models aimed at the model hobbyist market are separated from the entry level stuff for the residual trainset/toy segment. And get the price right.

Piko’s investment thats made most disruption to the market has been their new “super detailed” offerings at a substantially lower rate than their competitors “super detailed” offerings. 

 

i’m sure their “railroad” quality does very well considering their price too. But its High Quality lower price thats excited the community, and its not really hurting their peer competitors but exploiting their weaknesses ( they have their own problems too) as many modellers are trading old for new, whilst Piko is growing their own market share.

 

The difference I see is Hornby is not replicating the Piko model, but offering cut price lower specification models to disrupt new high detailed models... Lesser Quality Low price, which I think is still aimed to hurt competitors but more to discourage future innovation in the first place... the modellers are being offered new vs new or cheaper old vs new.

 

Comissioners may think longer and harder before investing, and could go underground until tooling is market ready, increasing risk of duplication, even if it reduces or delays the immediate threat of being swamped by cheaper older versions. They may even choose not to bother to take risk at all, which longer term could bring stagnation to a market which thrives on new excitement, and so risk to lose the interests of some would be modellers. Lets face it comissioners have excited many of us on this forum in the last decade, and without those market entrants the hobby would be a much duller place.

 

is going back to the 1980s/90’s, few manufacturers, less toolings, lower details really a place where we modellers really want to return to ?

 

Even humble wagons arent safe, we have two turbots, two A-Tanks, two Warwells..

 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by adb968008

[Hilux5972]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

But at what cost to the hobby ?

I don’t imagine at much of a cost. Bachmann have sat on their hands for far too long with regards to the 66. Yes they introduced a new body when the Low Emissions came onto the network but beyond that they didn’t really do any tooling changes. The Hattons one is aimed at the opposite end of the market to the Hornby one, so I don’t imagine a loco costing £67 would have much of an impact on one costing £150. 

[jjb1970]

I think markets for discretionary products like model trains work themselves out. If there is market growth or opportunities then it tends to attract new entrants and investment from established players. Model railways is a market with low barriers to entry as design and manufacturing can both be contracted out so it is a question of being willing to risk money. And some new entrants are avoiding that risk by deciding to crowd fund and presumably applying a reimbursable/cost+ type business model to make their own profit. If there is a market for lower cost good but more basic models then I think it is more likely that availability of such models would grow the overall market than hobble the higher end offerings (although it is true that the higher end would lose some sales to the lower cost alternatives). Business is about risk, personally I have no issue with any entrepreneur or company making a big profit if they take the risk to invest money in developing an idea or product, because if it goes wrong then they are also the ones who will lose. However we're not talking about access to potable water, basic food stuffs or healthcare and in the case of model trains I think the market should be left alone to evolve according to market forces. If that means further proliferation of suppliers then fine, if it means a consolidation then so be it. Ultimately nobody needs a model train in any meaningful sense of need, it's much more a case of wanting them.

[Legend]

18 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

The paint looks very nicely done on these and despite the age of the model it is still a nice representation of a class 66. For the typical price in shops these are quite the bargain IMO. In a way they are a good example of what a Railroad model should be - no frills but a good representation of the prototype, nicely finished and inexpensive.

 

Yes looks good. The only thing is these locos are not actually marketed as Railroad but are in the main range . Further range confusion!

[Ian Hargrave]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

But at what cost to the hobby ?

 

Easy answer.A cost benefit to Hornby to sustain its viability and development.With that there can be zero argument.Never mind the niceties....they don’t always put bread on the table.Bit of bargain basement helps us with loftier values.In theatre terms,musicals put bums on seats,Chekhov doesn’t.

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

I don’t imagine a loco costing £67 would have much of an impact on one costing £150. 

Theres quite a few commenting on here buying one or multiples of the Hornby one.

As much of the 10 or so offered are overlapping with Hattons and represent some celebrity liveries on todays network..

 

are you suggesting they will buy both Hornby and Hattons versions and run a duplicate of a loco in a unique livery like Large Logo, BR Green etc versions ?

Or

that they would never have bought a Hattons one at all ?

 

Certainly Hattons MD didnt seem impressed in the Hornby documentary, its his money invested and he clearly sees a threat to his sales from Hornbys decision.

 

myself I’m thinking from reading comments here, a lot of people who were interested, but not committed to the various special liveries at Hattons are filling their boots on the cheaper ones right now, especially as its here now..

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by adb968008

[Winter123]

Can't disagree with any of your thoughts adb. Hattons have been actively promoting the Hornby range on social media as obviously they will also make profit on them albeit would prefer higher sales of their higher spec version. Maybe people are filling their boots as the Hattons one has been pushed back to August or are they buying cheaper body moulds to alternate on the Hattons chassis? (if possible and without the need for advanced modelling techniques). Interesting times...

[RAF96]

Imagine if your local Ford dealer started making its own hi-spec version of the Fiesta and asked Ford to stop making their basic spec version as it was affecting their sales. Probably would not happen.

 

Hattons has made much of its pile flogging vast quantities of Hornby stuff bought in at a huge discount, now its effectively biting the hand that feeds it. Good for Hornby in standing up to them and Rails.

[rob D2]

That thing clearly sells, so they’ve got it right , but although the paint is correct I couldn’t really squint enough to overlook the detail discrepancies ( ie missing a whole door for starters ).

[47164]

Interesting the comment about the weight now being more than the Lima offering , as one up-

side of Lima locos was that the weight was spot on, and that offerings by Hornby of the Lima range have been a little light weight ... maybe Hornby are now listening to consumers.

 

I would like to see the Lima 60 return to the railroad range and the mainline 56 ( although the 2nd market is awash with them) , but I guess even at a half the price of the detailed offering there could be a sales conflict between the two so perhaps not too commercially viable.

[atom3624]

Is this Hornby 66 'one bogie' / 6-wheel-drive with no traction tyres now?

I presume the Lima edition had traction tyres.

 

Presumably the added weight would be to counter some of the traction lost without tyres - if there are none now?

 

Al.

[Ian Hargrave]

8 hours ago, RAF96 said:

Imagine if your local Ford dealer started making its own hi-spec version of the Fiesta and asked Ford to stop making their basic spec version as it was affecting their sales. Probably would not happen.

 

Hattons has made much of its pile flogging vast quantities of Hornby stuff bought in at a huge discount, now its effectively biting the hand that feeds it. Good for Hornby in standing up to them and Rails.

 

Er,can’t quite follow the logic in this.Who is “standing up” to whom exactly? You make it sound like David and Goliath.The sequence of events is a trifle more complex than that.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On ‎06‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 14:01, Hilux5972 said:

... The Hattons one is aimed at the opposite end of the market to the Hornby one, so I don’t imagine a loco costing £67 would have much of an impact on one costing £150. 

It has been clear for some time that for many there's a clear 'stop line' at somewhere approaching £100 for a loco, and a market for models that look and run well and are robust for not too much cash. I rather feel that Hornby have tapped into that sector with this item. £67 for a 'big engine' is the right sort of price.

 

Now, as others already have suggested, get the marketing right. I have felt for a long time that the 'Railroad' branding is a mistake. That wants to be Hornby, the name with all the sentimental gooey syrup all over it. The premium models can be sold under any name, (I would buy an excellent model that suited my interest even if it came from Frogspawn Industries) although there are many fine possibilities available in the 'Sexy Beast by Hornby' style ...

[43078shildoncountydurham]

Any of you chaps got both Hornby and a Bachy 66779 to show the difference for the price?

 

Regards

 

craig

[toboldlygo]

12 minutes ago, 43078shildoncountydurham said:

Any of you chaps got both Hornby and a Bachy 66779 to show the difference for the price?

 

Regards

 

craig

 

Not me