Hornby 66s

[Ouroborus]

18 hours ago, YesTor said:

 

 Each to his own etc

 

Exactly.  My money, my railway, my business

[Chrisr40]

8 hours ago, No Decorum said:

I would. I like my Škoda. I couldn’t fit all the sprogs, never mind the weekly shopping, into one of those flat Italian jobs. 

And the skoda will always start

[YesTor]

3 hours ago, Ouroborus said:

 

Exactly.  My money, my railway, my business

 

True, although fair to assume by posting "your business" on a public forum that you were by default inviting others to express an opinion, otherwise why post?  Anyway, no offence intended, just a bit of fun, huh?  

 

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by YesTor

[truffy]

On ‎16‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 01:49, YesTor said:

it's a bit like parking a Lamborghini up next to a Skoda and hoping that no one will notice the difference... 

 

T'other way 'round, surely? I doubt that the average Lamborghini owner would want their car to be indistinguishable from a Skoda.

[toboldlygo]

3 hours ago, truffy said:

 

T'other way 'round, surely? I doubt that the average Lamborghini owner would want their car to be indistinguishable from a Skoda.

 

Though average Lamborghini owner, doesn't realize that there are Skoda parts on his car 

 

Worth noting as well that the Contache had BL switch gear

[TRAILRAGE]

On 30/03/2019 at 14:07, adb968008 said:

Apart from looking good, how well do they run ?

 

i am contemplating using the motor for lima class 92 upgrades.

Personally I always though that Lima did a really good job of capturing the look of these. Not perfect then neither is the Bachmann model. But then I really don't like the look of the Hatton's version myself. I bought my 5 year old a Colas one for his Birthday as that is what he wanted. Runs beautifully Smooth and managed to pull 5 Bachmann MBA, 1 Bachmann MOA, 4 Dapol MCA and 4 Dapol JNA  without any trouble at all  and felt like I could have ran up to 20.  But did run with the 4 Dapol JNA, a 5 wagon MRA set and 5 Bachmann JJA Auto ballasters and it romped away no problems . I think the only problem would be if the Wagons are loose loaded I think the heaviest wagon rake I have is my 10 Bachmann RMC hoppers although a rake of Dapol IKA Megafrets would be an issue.

 

Cheers Trailrage

[James Makin]

On 06/04/2019 at 08:27, adb968008 said:

So the thing the marketing guys have possibly learned is putting lipstick on a pig actually works, as long as the price is right.

 

 

 

Forgive me for being satirical but isn’t that what Hornby’s “modern” range has been like for the past 20+ years? 

 

Ever since I started getting into the hobby in the late ‘90s, Hornby was churning out endless current liveries on their old models, the prehistoric Triang 37s arriving in Transrail, Mainline and EWS guises, ancient 47s masquerading as new Virgin 47/8s, and Virgin glamour hitting the trainset toy 86s and 90s, not to mention Dapol Class 56s endlessly being reissued in shiny liveries throughout the 2000s with no regard for detail differences...I could go on! It’s only fairly recently Hornby stepped upto the plate with the ‘50’, ‘60’, ‘56’ and so on but we forget their traditional D&E “slap this year’s new livery on, they won’t notice the details” antics! 

 

I think fair play on the ex-Lima 66s coming back again, it gives buyers a chance to get a cheap current-day-liveried loco at an affordable price - and the point about not upgrading the rest of the model - factory-installed lighting isn’t going to make much of a difference to compared to the fact it’s not the low-emission variant - a pretty big detail to overlook - move on by and start with a Bachmann or Hattons one if you care about the details! 

 

 

[truffy]

Not to mention build cheap 'design clever'!

[JohnR]

On 17/04/2019 at 21:55, TRAILRAGE said:

Personally I always though that Lima did a really good job of capturing the look of these. Not perfect then neither is the Bachmann model. But then I really don't like the look of the Hatton's version myself. I bought my 5 year old a Colas one for his Birthday as that is what he wanted. Runs beautifully Smooth and managed to pull 5 Bachmann MBA, 1 Bachmann MOA, 4 Dapol MCA and 4 Dapol JNA  without any trouble at all  and felt like I could have ran up to 20.  But did run with the 4 Dapol JNA, a 5 wagon MRA set and 5 Bachmann JJA Auto ballasters and it romped away no problems . I think the only problem would be if the Wagons are loose loaded I think the heaviest wagon rake I have is my 10 Bachmann RMC hoppers although a rake of Dapol IKA Megafrets would be an issue.

 

Cheers Trailrage

 

I dont have a lot of modern modern image wagons, so when we tested my sons GBRf 66, I used some old Hornby container wagons (were they just the mark 1 coach chassis with smaller wheels?) Michael has one of the newer railroad versions. 

 

The 66 found it almost impossible to pull away with 4 of these. Removing one of the older ones resulted in the 66 being able to start and maintain a reasonable speed around the oval, although it did slow down around the (3rd radius) curves. I'm going to investigate putting some more weight in it - but having said that, 3/4 of these wagons is probably fine for the sort of oval layout a youngster is likely to have in their room. Might also look at the wheels on the older wagons - they looked like the typical horrible plastic - replacing them make make it easier for the 66 to lift them.

 

[Fat Controller]

49 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

I dont have a lot of modern modern image wagons, so when we tested my sons GBRf 66, I used some old Hornby container wagons (were they just the mark 1 coach chassis with smaller wheels?) Michael has one of the newer railroad versions. 

 

The 66 found it almost impossible to pull away with 4 of these. Removing one of the older ones resulted in the 66 being able to start and maintain a reasonable speed around the oval, although it did slow down around the (3rd radius) curves. I'm going to investigate putting some more weight in it - but having said that, 3/4 of these wagons is probably fine for the sort of oval layout a youngster is likely to have in their room. Might also look at the wheels on the older wagons - they looked like the typical horrible plastic - replacing them make make it easier for the 66 to lift them.

 

Three, very light, wagons seems to be a little on the light side. I'd be looking at very dirty, possibly seized, axle-bearings. Remove each wheel-set, clean the axle ends with a bit of clean cloth soaked in lighter fuel or surgical spirit. Similarly, clean out the bearing holes in the bogies, perhaps with a cotton-wool bud. Before replacing each wheel-set,draw a soft graphite pencil across each bearing, so as to leave a small amount of graphite powder behind. This should give much smoother running. Do not be tempted to use oil or grease; both can react with plastic.

In the longer term, I'd look at replacing with metal wheels and axles, preferably with brass pin-point bearings.

With regard to weighting the loco; this can be difficult with diesels, as you need to get the weight around the powered bogie if you wish to increase adhesion (and thus haulage). Lead flashing, which you can buy from a builder's merchant, may be of use. Before fixing permanently, secure with Duck tape to find the optimum position for it. In the days of the old Triang-Hornby motor bogies, we used to fit two to a single, heavily ballasted, loco, giving a loco that would pull a dozen bogie coaches or 40+ wagons on a garden line with very steep gradients.

The two drawbacks were:-

the power drawn  on the Duette controller meant there was no need for heating in the shed.

The sintered iron wheels would develop grooves in the tyres.

[JohnR]

Thanks Brian. I've no doubt the wagons needed checking over before use! However, as I said, even pulling 3 or 4 of these wagons makes a train that is long enough for most of the trainset type layouts that many will have bought their 66 for. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

2 hours ago, JohnR said:

...The 66 found it almost impossible to pull away with 4 of these. Removing one of the older ones resulted in the 66 being able to start and maintain a reasonable speed around the oval, although it did slow down around the (3rd radius) curves. I'm going to investigate putting some more weight in it ...

The problem with more weight on a  single bogie drive model is that some of that weight is carried on the unpowered bogie, and is effectively an increase in the trainload the motor bogie has to pull. Path to diminishing returns in short. Per Brian's post above, the 'amazing!' discovery of my youth that putting two power bogies in the one loco - provided they were decently matched - resulted in a model that had between three and four times the traction of the single motor bogie model: and that was before adding any extra weight, all of which was effective because it was bearing on driven wheels.  (Frankly, the centre motor drives are comfortably worth the extra money if tractive performance is of interest.)

Edited April 22, 2019 by 34theletterbetweenB&D
cypo torrection

[TRAILRAGE]

Strange that again on my liitleuns layout 8 Hornby Freightliner flats are no issue.  

[JSpencer]

On ‎06‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 11:01, Ian Hargrave said:

All in all,Hornby got this one right,didn’t they ? Good for them.

 

Yep. I was pleasently surprised. I thought these would be a big flop.

[JSpencer]

On ‎07‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 23:45, adb968008 said:

I’d proffer its more like a Hollywood movie vs the Theatre,.

 

Lets note the Hornby 66779 Evening Star has sold out, Bachmann one is reduced, Hattons might have made a super 66, but 779 wasn’t on the original list. Where is their incentive to make a 66779 now ?, Where as Hornby may well be emboldened to make more.

 

 

Bachmann tend to do runs of at least 504 locos and this was done twice (mainstream and NRM gloss) so maybe at least 1000 models.

 

Hornby have done - I think - 8 different models of 66, lets say 250 of each or 2000 overall.  Yet the 250 Evening stars will be fewer in number and nearly half the price of the Bachmann one. Even if over half the market prefers the greater detail of Bachmann, Hornby's will still sell out at being cheaper and maybe just 1/4 of the number.

This seems to have worked well on a big class 66 with lots of new colours to choose from. So indeed a great move by Hornby.

 

I'm not sure it would work on other classes that are now largely defunct and certainly won't have many more livery variations. But I admit was wrong over the 66 (thinking they would never sell) and could be wrong if the same was tried elsewhere.

 

 

[Legend]

I'm glad they are a success . Not sure in the numbers made but I would think it might be mote than 2000. Anyway here's hoping its a contributor to Hornbys finances .  Now given that was a success , how about Class 156.  Multicoloured versions, much cheepness?  Class 90s?   I would say HSTs too , using Limby power car , but they would be effectively undercutting themselves , so not likely . I would go for VTEC and Scotrail HSTs though , cheaper than the £200+ power cars.

 

Another possible for them would be to design a low cost hopper (sorry don't know modern designations) to stick in trainset . Not highly detailed  but representative with minimum of parts.Can you imagine red/blue/green class 66 trainsets with appropriate hoppers with play value . Big visual impact, low cost.  That might get the brand into the high street.  Sort of the innovation the old Tri-ang under Richard Lines would do.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Legend

[adb968008]

Given Hornby appetite for taking on anyone who dares, I think several class 91’s might be next, especially to contrast to the new Azumas.

 

They've offered a few 92’s this year already, and 87002, maybe some mk3 sleepers in the final livery.

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by adb968008

[JSpencer]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Given Hornby appetite for taking on anyone who dares, I think several class 91’s might be next, especially to contrast to the new Azumas.

 

They've offered a few 92’s this year already, and 87002, maybe some mk3 sleepers in the final livery.

 

 

The 66 was doubtless a success because it's a big class with lots of new never done before liveries to choose from. I don,t really like things that are post 2000 so unless they were modern super detailed versions, I could not imagine them selling. Yet I suppose new comers and budget modelers in the hobby would welcome this modern class on their layouts, just as I welcomed the then modern classes released in the early 90s when I was young to the hobby. I was surprised and glad they were successful. 

 

Would the success repeat itself on the 90 and 91? Only if there are some recent liveries not done before and even then less so than the 66. A 66 can be placed on any freight train, the 90/91 (in particular the latter) needs somewhat more specialised stock. 

The rightly picked on the few new livery 92s -even if some again ask for specialised stock - and equally rightly avoid those done and dusted before. If the 92s sell and their are new liveries on the 90 and 91 yet to be done, then why not? Else money made from the 66s could be quickly lost on the wrong classes.

 

[adb968008]

If you recall Lyndons words.. “do more with less” are constantly repeated...

So doing more with less...Quick wins are thin in modern image today but there are some...

 

They could do a bunch of DRS37s.. 37419 is rumoured to return in Mainline, and 425 suggested Regional Railways, on top of all the other l/l blue ones.

 

47’s such as 47580 in Flag/Blue and with 47828 joining the WCRC in Intercity livery, could join some of Hoskings class 47’s D1924,35,44 in LSL Green, 1733 in Blue..47712 in ScR, 47375, plus RoG and VT.

 

 but if the amount of calls for a new 91 are to be believed, catching up some recent new livery / celeb 91’s (LNER, 91119,91132,Virgin Scot an 91101 etc) could do the same effect.

 

At the high detail end for 50’s.. GBRf (just do both at the same time rather than drawing it out over years), plus Intercity stand out.

 

Of course the one everyone would like is Hornby to all out on a dozen liveries on super detailed class 31’s post 1986 with headcode boxes and headlights.... Blue, Railfreight + RS, Dutch, Grey, Intercity ML, 31101, 31146/7 (Dutch Pwllheli pair) 31165, 31413 + 31/5 variants but they need to sharpen their pencil on price in the same way they managed to reduce the 66’s rrp by 30%.., I fear the only way this will happen is someone else to announce one first...

My Lima 31 fleet remains very large due to no replacements.

Edited April 23, 2019 by adb968008

[Hroth]

8 hours ago, Legend said:

I'm glad they are a success . Not sure in the numbers made but I would think it might be mote than 2000. Anyway here's hoping its a contributor to Hornbys finances .  Now given that was a success , how about Class 156.  Multicoloured versions, much cheepness?  Class 90s?   I would say HSTs too , using Limby power car , but they would be effectively undercutting themselves , so not likely . I would go for VTEC and Scotrail HSTs though , cheaper than the £200+ power cars.

 

Another possible for them would be to design a low cost hopper (sorry don't know modern designations) to stick in trainset . Not highly detailed  but representative with minimum of parts.Can you imagine red/blue/green class 66 trainsets with appropriate hoppers with play value . Big visual impact, low cost.  That might get the brand into the high street.  Sort of the innovation the old Tri-ang under Richard Lines would do.

 

Hornby are re-releasing Limby HST trains later this year, a train pack in Intercity 125 livery (R3608 @ £120) and a trainset in GWR green livery (R1230M @ £120), both allegedly DCC Ready.  I don't quite understand the pricing as with R3608 you just get W43001/W43002 while with R1230 you get the power cars and a centre coach,  a 3rd radius oval and "track pack A" and the new black power controller.  Even if you ignore the track and controller, you get an extra coach with the trainset!

 

 

 

[adb968008]

Trainsets have always been discounted, but flip side were always the big seller, especially at christmas.

 

chances are the savings are in volume, they could make a lot more GWR HST sets, especially as GWR HSTs are hot topic of 2019.

The Blue/Grey is hardly new, though the choice of 43002 is probably deliberate as its high probability of being the last HST from Paddington, and in that colour, on a GWR train in 3 weeks time, and 1st preserved one in to the Great Hall at York... so chances of TV airtime are pretty good.

Edited April 23, 2019 by adb968008

[Hroth]

I must admit that I could probably find more use for the Intercity 125 pack, rather than the trainset... 

[JohnR]

Also, with the Castle short-formed HST sets coming on stream, an almost realistic train set!

[spice1977]

I've bought six of them. I sold Bachmann Colas and Evening Star and that paid for 4 of them alone. I'm fitting Jason Edmunds lighting kits to all, two Zimo sound decoders, 1 soundtraxx and 3 TTS. All are having EM2 speakers and once done they look just fine to me. Yes the lighting clusters etc are not prototypical on some of them such as Evening Star but the overall finish is very good for a £67 model (price I paid to Rails). 

[Monkey28]

Have you got any pictures of the lighting kits? I would like to see how they fit