Hornby 66s

[spice1977]

I will take some when my drill bits arrive - here's his instructions for his Class 66 kit.

 

Here's the instructions for the class 66 light set.

My light sets have resistors built in.

The light set will comprise of -

2 x main light units for fitting to the chassis

2 x top light led units

4 x lighthouse leds for use as headlight lenses.

1mm fibre optic for use with tail light lenses

small coloured wires for attaching to the underside of the dcc socket

Heat shrink.

 

Here's the instructions for fitting the class 66 dcc light set to the Hornby or Lima model.

Take care when removing glazing from Hornby locos. The glue they use is quite strong. The glazing can break easily. 

 

1/ With the loco body still fitted to the chassis -Carefully mark the centres of the marker, head & tail lights using an awl or similar implement.

2/  With a 1mm drill held in a pin vice, pilot drill the top light, headlight & tail light centres.. Ensuring the hole is dead centre. Ensure that the drill goes through the ends of the chassis too ( except don't drill the hole in the chassis for the night time headlight).

Remove the loco body from the chassis.

3/ Counter sink the tail light lens holes with a 1.5mm drill. Only go in about a millimetre. Do the same for the top lights.

Open out the headlight holes ONLY to 2mm.

4/ Open out the holes in the fronts of the chassis to 1.5mm. Touch up any paintwork before proceeding.

5/ Using the fibre optic supplied, Cut the end nice & flat - file to tidy, then using a lighter briefly heat the end of the optic to enlarge it. Cut to a length of about 10mm & insert into the tail light holes . Fix with a spot of superglue on the inside. Once set, trim flush to the inside of the body.

For the top light, Cut a piece of 1mm fibre optic about 25mm long & insert into the top light. ( use a lighter to enlarge the end as per tail lights)

6/ For fitting headlight lenses - cut the tops off the lighthouse led's ( supplied) to about 2-3mm.

File the cut end to tidy. Insert these lenses into each headlight hole. ( use a small piece of blue tac to block the end of the 'nightime' headlight - driver's side).

7/ Remove the interior cabs from the chassis. If your loco is dcc ready, connect the small coloured wires ( provided) to their appropriate locations on the bottom of the dcc socket - ensuring no contact with any other pin locations.

8/ Place the light units into the recess at the front of the chassis - you will notice one is deeper than the other - this corresponds to the different depths on the chassis.

9/ With a maplins led tester or dc controller on low output, connect the blue positive wire then connect one of the other colours ( negative). This will light up the light unit to check alignment with the holes. ( should be spot on).

Secure light units in place with a spot of superglue on the sides.

10/ Run the light unit wires to the centre of the loco ( where the dcc socket is if fitted.) Tape down to tidy. On the motor side, run the wires over the motor.

11/The top roof light led units are meant to engage on to the fibre optic that's now fitted in the top light holes. Make sure the end of the optic is cut clean & insert into the small hole in the heat shrink for the top light led unit. Make sure the colours of the wires of the top light led units correspond with the coloured wires that light up the white lights on the chassis mounted light units.

12/ Run the top light wires along the top of the body to near the location of the dcc socket.

Join the blue wires together & white wires, then yellow wires together.

Join the coloured light wires to their appropriate corresponding colours from the dcc socket.

13/ If your loco is not dcc ready, simply join the light unit wires to the similarly coloured function wires on the decoder. See pics attached.

14/ With decoder fitted, lightly place the body on the chassis & test run to ensure that the lighting is correct for the direction of travel. If not - simply swap either the motor wires over ( easiest way) or disconnect the white / yellow wires & swap over.

15/ Once running is correct, refit the body.

 

My only additional note when doing the first holes in hold the loco solidly in your other hand wrapped around the chassis and loco top to stop the chassis moving when you first get through the body. I cannot stress enough to use an LED tester when fitting - his lighting kits are very fine and if you misalign the units with the holes you have made the lighting will not show through correctly. Follow his instructions to the letter though and you cannot even tell they are after market fitted.

 

Jason uses very fine wire so you easily mold it around the chassis and glue in place. You can make the body totally removable by adding a three pin plug and socket - JST or similar. I have fit his lighting kits to 60's, APT, 47's, 31's, 37's and 66's so far and they are very good. He sends full instructions with the purchase (as shown above) and photos if any modifications need making to the cab / body etc and will even fit them if you send him the model and pay extra for it from what I understand. Also his service is far faster than Express models as he only lists what he has in stock ready to send - I have been waiting over a month for class 50 lighting kits from them and at one point had to wait nearly 6 months for some from them. I cannot recommend his kits enough in all honesty. 

[spice1977]

If you don't know him he is stickswipe on eBay.

[Ouroborus]

On 23/04/2019 at 17:15, JSpencer said:

 

The 66 was doubtless a success because it's a big class with lots of new never done before liveries to choose from. I don,t really like things that are post 2000 so unless they were modern super detailed versions, I could not imagine them selling. Yet I suppose new comers and budget modelers in the hobby would welcome this modern class on their layouts, just as I welcomed the then modern classes released in the early 90s when I was young to the hobby. I was surprised and glad they were successful. 

 

Would the success repeat itself on the 90 and 91? Only if there are some recent liveries not done before and even then less so than the 66. A 66 can be placed on any freight train, the 90/91 (in particular the latter) needs somewhat more specialised stock. 

The rightly picked on the few new livery 92s -even if some again ask for specialised stock - and equally rightly avoid those done and dusted before. If the 92s sell and their are new liveries on the 90 and 91 yet to be done, then why not? Else money made from the 66s could be quickly lost on the wrong classes.

 

 

Perhaps, but I'd venture that they're a success because (a) the model is pretty reasonable and (b) cheap.  I bet some of these barely turn a wheel, but go straight onto the display shelf.  Fair enough, each to their own and Hornby won't care one jot.  But I wonder what the other manufacturers are now thinking.

[Coryton]

On 23/04/2019 at 18:02, adb968008 said:

 but they need to sharpen their pencil on price in the same way they managed to reduce the 66’s rrp by 30%..,

 

 

Is this based on the assumption that the explanation for two models being announced at £100 and the rest at £75 is that the original price was £100 and they forgot to change these?

 

Or is there other information that Hornby decided to drop the price?

 

(I make £100 to £75 a 25% reduction so maybe you are referring to something else).

[Coryton]

On 23/04/2019 at 17:15, JSpencer said:

 

The 66 was doubtless a success because it's a big class with lots of new never done before liveries to choose from. I don,t really like things that are post 2000 so unless they were modern super detailed versions, I could not imagine them selling.

 

I find it interesting that quite a few people here didn't think they would sell well.

 

I took the opposite view, that they would sell well though not necessarily to the majority of people on this forum.

 

There are certainly other types of purchaser out there, as a visit to Hornby's own forum or a look at YouTube will show.

 

It looks as if Hornby has indeed done well with these...though I suppose it's possible that the shops have got this wrong and they will sit on the shelves.

 

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Coryton said:

 

Is this based on the assumption that the explanation for two models being announced at £100 and the rest at £75 is that the original price was £100 and they forgot to change these?

 

Or is there other information that Hornby decided to drop the price?

 

(I make £100 to £75 a 25% reduction so maybe you are referring to something else).

As were being acutely precise, its £74.99 vs £100.99 (Jan 2018 R3573)

So that makes it..

25.745123279532626992771561540746608576% 

 

Using ThisIsMoney.co,uks price inflation calculator, 2018 to 2019, £100.99 is today £104.32.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1633409/Historic-inflation-calculator-value-money-changed-1900.html

 

on that basis..

28.115414110429447852760736196319018405%

rounded to 30%  but why argue 5% amongst friends... 25.something it is...

 

the % is irelevent, its the substance... if Hornby could sharpen pencils on mass runs of class 31’s, I think there would be a few takers, £174.99 is a bit ambitious for a skinhead pre-1980’s 31, when the fame of the 31’s came in the late 1980’s to the mostly Headcode box ones.

 

I’m sat on a whole bunch of Lima 31’s.. as its the only Lima I  stuff I have thats not since been replicated, at 25 years old, despite a new tooling having existed for more than 10 years... 

 

ive replaced the skinheads, RfC, RfP, RfA and RegRlys ones.. but I still have 31405/423 (Mainline), 31410 (RegRlys), 31232/242 (Redstrip rft), 31116/46/47/308/541 (Dutch), 413 (SvR), 31101 (Large logo), 31165 (Green), 31116 (horrendous yellow), 31545 (Blue), 31568 (Grey), 31402/32,60,69 (Blue)

 

as no variant has yet been produced to cover these variants, and going back to older ones for respray is a bit risky given previous Mazak issues, the Lima one has prevailed.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by adb968008

[JSpencer]

1 hour ago, Ouroborus said:

 

Perhaps, but I'd venture that they're a success because (a) the model is pretty reasonable and (b) cheap.  I bet some of these barely turn a wheel, but go straight onto the display shelf.  Fair enough, each to their own and Hornby won't care one jot.  But I wonder what the other manufacturers are now thinking.

 

Most makes are going for ever increasing details and fidelity - at a cost that fewer can afford. Then boom, Hornby bucks the trend with an entire range of cheap 66s in modern liveries. The success clearly shows an important market which may not be very present here but one which exists and needs to be natured. Maybe design clever a few years ago was too soon. But with some tweeking, could probably work well now.

[truffy]

8 hours ago, JSpencer said:

Most makes are going for ever increasing details and fidelity - at a cost that fewer can afford. Then boom, Hornby bucks the trend with an entire range of cheap 66s in modern liveries. The success clearly shows an important market which may not be very present here but one which exists and needs to be natured. Maybe design clever a few years ago was too soon. But with some tweeking, could probably work well now.

 

What market are Hornby going to be aiming at with this? They have the Railroad range, for the cheap end. I understood (perhaps misunderstood?) that they were also aiming for a higher-end market where fidelity meant more than cost.

 

I'm not sure where 'design clever' fits into this, because it seemed to have not-much-better-than-Railroad quality at a premium price.

 

If they can drop the cost of 'design clever', they might find a middle market, but that then puts them into three defined segments.

[jjb1970]

I always thought that the problem with design clever was poor execution, the basic concept was sound. Designing in ease of manufacture should be a given (why would you not do it?) and use of moulded details where appropriate is a perfectly valid approach. Bachmann have used the same approach with little comment, but they have applied the approach better than Hornby (and didn't advertise it). At the time there was a lot of adverse comment about using 3 pole motors instead of 5 pole but a good 3 pole motor and transmission will perform just as well and some of the best Hornby runners I have use the ostensibly lower spec arrangement. 

The problem with some of the Hornby models was they made some poor choices of where to trim costs and the use of shared tooling for main range and Railroad models didn't work. Even that idea can work if done well, as evidenced by Scale Trains in the US market. 

[JSpencer]

1 hour ago, truffy said:

 

What market are Hornby going to be aiming at with this? They have the Railroad range, for the cheap end. I understood (perhaps misunderstood?) that they were also aiming for a higher-end market where fidelity meant more than cost.

 

I'm not sure where 'design clever' fits into this, because it seemed to have not-much-better-than-Railroad quality at a premium price.

 

If they can drop the cost of 'design clever', they might find a middle market, but that then puts them into three defined segments.

 

Many of the cheap end items look.... well.... cheap! What on earth could someone do to a Railroad 08 to make it look like a decent 08 for example?

But the high end items are probably out of reach for certain modelors. We cannot keep saying to them "got no money, buy the toy one instead". In anycase most Railroad items have to compete with the second hand market that is often flooded with previous incarnations every time there is an all new release (many such sales also allow people to upgrade to the all new version too).

 

The execution of design clever went too far in some cases. The P2 and Duke of Gloucester brought back Triang era features such as molded handrails. If a high end model has 250-300 parts, Railroad has 50-100 parts then maybe there is space for a 150-200 part model.

 

It seems that models which just survive not braking the £100 mark are selling really well this year, whether they are 66s, Terriers (despite a strong competitor) and the B2. Those above the £150 such as Princesses, Nelsons and Coronations look to be taking a bit more effort to shift.

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by JSpencer

[adb968008]

40 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

In anycase most Railroad items have to compete with the second hand market that is often flooded with previous incarnations every time there is an all new release (many such sales also allow people to upgrade to the all new version too)

Part of the railroad problem is the older paint jobs are better than the newer ones. A lot of recent railroad stuff just looked cheap on a good chassis, where as the older ones looked ok on a bad chassis. The 66’s look to have breached this gap with an ok model on an ok chassis at an ok price, but longer term I think their 2nd hand outlook is poor.

 

I bought an older Hornby 92220 Evening Star as the lining was better, then did a chassis swap to bring it up to date.

 

I later looked at upgrading to the new Bachmann one but found the tender lining was too low, so my Bachmann upgrade will be an older version of theirs too.

 

Its a fine line for manufacturers, if they re-release old toolings the model has to match the past, for a price. If they cheapen up a future model, savvy modellers will buy the more accurate older ones... Brighton Belle is a good example.. the older ones from 5+ years back were much better than the cheaped out new one.

 

 

[truffy]

3 hours ago, JSpencer said:

The execution of design clever went too far in some cases. The P2 and Duke of Gloucester brought back Triang era features such as molded handrails. If a high end model has 250-300 parts, Railroad has 50-100 parts then maybe there is space for a 150-200 part model.

 

Also, compare the roof vents and handrails of the 2-BIL against the SR carriages that were being released at the same time, if not earlier.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

15 hours ago, Ouroborus said:

Perhaps, but I'd venture that they're a success because (a) the model is pretty reasonable and (b) cheap...

I wonder what the other manufacturers are now thinking.

Pretty much the same as ever!

 

When it is manufacturers like Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan, Dapol, Oxford; their customers are retailers. Each will propose a list of proposed product offerings for the year, and the retailer orders then define what is manufactured. Anything winning insufficient retailer orders to make a minimum viable production run isn't manufactured in short.

 

Leave it to the retailers to understand what the relative market potential of these offerings are, they have to do the thinking. (At least it is a relatively simple landscape, at present only Hornby really have much potential of going for competing 'economy versions' based on legacy tooling.)

 

As for the boutique productions and proposals that are direct sale or very limited general retail exposure, and which also duplicate existing models, what is on offer is product that should significantly outdistance potential competition. Too early to say how this one works out overall.

[Ouroborus]

I don't think the liveries of the 66's was by chance.  On the whole, they are the 'specials', not some banger EWS red and gold. 

Going backwards, there was much demand for the Bachmann 66 Evening Star and it commanded a premium price.  Witness the Hattons 66 thread where there was great excitement about their LL 66 and then much demand for Flying Dustman to follow.   It not a huge leap of thought to think Hornby saw the demand for these liveries and the price people were prepared to pay and acted to get in quick to snap up the many modelers who wanted these particular liveries *first* over a high spec model.    I'm pretty sure that the reason the TPE 68 flew off the shelves was its livery rather than its fidelity as a model or that it fitted a modeler's layout.  We all love a bargain and for some, perhaps getting that livery at a price they could more comfortably afford was far more important.

Going forwards, perhaps Hornby will think about the remaining weird and wonderful liveries that have yet to be produced and plaster these onto their models.

[Hilux5972]

34 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

On the whole, they are the 'specials', not some banger EWS red and gold. 

Except for the GBRf, of which 88 are owned, or the EWS one itself of which there were 455 at one point. Or the 161 still operated by DB. Or the multiple locos operated by Colas. They aren’t all specials. Hornby aren’t stupid, they would have seen the equal value in bog standard versions as well as the special one off versions. Some people still do like to do some modelling in the form of renumbering. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Hilux5972

['CHARD]

8 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

 

the EWS one itself of which there were 455 at one point.

 

 

455, really?

[Ouroborus]

1 hour ago, 'CHARD said:

 

455, really?

 

That's the trouble with wikipedia - sometimes you need to read it more closely.

['CHARD]

54 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

 

That's the trouble with wikipedia - sometimes you need to read it more closely.

 

Hahahahaha!  There are 455 preserved Class 50s, it was a data transposition!

[Ouroborus]

48 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

 

Hahahahaha!  There are 455 preserved Class 50s, it was a data transposition!

 

Data Transposition is new operator of the WCML

Edited April 25, 2019 by Ouroborus
typo

[Monkey28]

On 24/04/2019 at 15:52, spice1977 said:

I will take some when my drill bits arrive - here's his instructions for his Class 66 kit.

 

Here's the instructions for the class 66 light set.

My light sets have resistors built in.

The light set will comprise of -

2 x main light units for fitting to the chassis

2 x top light led units

4 x lighthouse leds for use as headlight lenses.

1mm fibre optic for use with tail light lenses

small coloured wires for attaching to the underside of the dcc socket

Heat shrink.

 

Here's the instructions for fitting the class 66 dcc light set to the Hornby or Lima model.

Take care when removing glazing from Hornby locos. The glue they use is quite strong. The glazing can break easily. 

 

1/ With the loco body still fitted to the chassis -Carefully mark the centres of the marker, head & tail lights using an awl or similar implement.

2/  With a 1mm drill held in a pin vice, pilot drill the top light, headlight & tail light centres.. Ensuring the hole is dead centre. Ensure that the drill goes through the ends of the chassis too ( except don't drill the hole in the chassis for the night time headlight).

Remove the loco body from the chassis.

3/ Counter sink the tail light lens holes with a 1.5mm drill. Only go in about a millimetre. Do the same for the top lights.

Open out the headlight holes ONLY to 2mm.

4/ Open out the holes in the fronts of the chassis to 1.5mm. Touch up any paintwork before proceeding.

5/ Using the fibre optic supplied, Cut the end nice & flat - file to tidy, then using a lighter briefly heat the end of the optic to enlarge it. Cut to a length of about 10mm & insert into the tail light holes . Fix with a spot of superglue on the inside. Once set, trim flush to the inside of the body.

For the top light, Cut a piece of 1mm fibre optic about 25mm long & insert into the top light. ( use a lighter to enlarge the end as per tail lights)

6/ For fitting headlight lenses - cut the tops off the lighthouse led's ( supplied) to about 2-3mm.

File the cut end to tidy. Insert these lenses into each headlight hole. ( use a small piece of blue tac to block the end of the 'nightime' headlight - driver's side).

7/ Remove the interior cabs from the chassis. If your loco is dcc ready, connect the small coloured wires ( provided) to their appropriate locations on the bottom of the dcc socket - ensuring no contact with any other pin locations.

8/ Place the light units into the recess at the front of the chassis - you will notice one is deeper than the other - this corresponds to the different depths on the chassis.

9/ With a maplins led tester or dc controller on low output, connect the blue positive wire then connect one of the other colours ( negative). This will light up the light unit to check alignment with the holes. ( should be spot on).

Secure light units in place with a spot of superglue on the sides.

10/ Run the light unit wires to the centre of the loco ( where the dcc socket is if fitted.) Tape down to tidy. On the motor side, run the wires over the motor.

11/The top roof light led units are meant to engage on to the fibre optic that's now fitted in the top light holes. Make sure the end of the optic is cut clean & insert into the small hole in the heat shrink for the top light led unit. Make sure the colours of the wires of the top light led units correspond with the coloured wires that light up the white lights on the chassis mounted light units.

12/ Run the top light wires along the top of the body to near the location of the dcc socket.

Join the blue wires together & white wires, then yellow wires together.

Join the coloured light wires to their appropriate corresponding colours from the dcc socket.

13/ If your loco is not dcc ready, simply join the light unit wires to the similarly coloured function wires on the decoder. See pics attached.

14/ With decoder fitted, lightly place the body on the chassis & test run to ensure that the lighting is correct for the direction of travel. If not - simply swap either the motor wires over ( easiest way) or disconnect the white / yellow wires & swap over.

15/ Once running is correct, refit the body.

 

My only additional note when doing the first holes in hold the loco solidly in your other hand wrapped around the chassis and loco top to stop the chassis moving when you first get through the body. I cannot stress enough to use an LED tester when fitting - his lighting kits are very fine and if you misalign the units with the holes you have made the lighting will not show through correctly. Follow his instructions to the letter though and you cannot even tell they are after market fitted.

 

Jason uses very fine wire so you easily mold it around the chassis and glue in place. You can make the body totally removable by adding a three pin plug and socket - JST or similar. I have fit his lighting kits to 60's, APT, 47's, 31's, 37's and 66's so far and they are very good. He sends full instructions with the purchase (as shown above) and photos if any modifications need making to the cab / body etc and will even fit them if you send him the model and pay extra for it from what I understand. Also his service is far faster than Express models as he only lists what he has in stock ready to send - I have been waiting over a month for class 50 lighting kits from them and at one point had to wait nearly 6 months for some from them. I cannot recommend his kits enough in all honesty. 

 

Thanks for the information I will have a look on ebay 

[Hilux5972]

4 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

 

455, really?

Ok I got the number wrong. My point was they made standard run of the mill liveries that could be easily renumbered, and not just special liveries as Ouroborus claimed. 

[adb968008]

8 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

Ok I got the number wrong. My point was they made standard run of the mill liveries that could be easily renumbered, and not just special liveries as Ouroborus claimed. 

 

But they are specials, thats why they've sold so well, people like celebrity locos, Hornby has beaten everyone to the punch and got them on the street...5 of the 9 were celebrities (1 is from 2018’s range)...

 

if Bachmann / Hattons had got the same 66’s on the shelves in Jan, they would have stolen a % of Hornbys sales, indeed i’m guessing but suspect some may have canceled Hattons ones as a result.

 

As it stands I think the shelf life of the Hornby 66’s is limited, they might be first (and hit the Hornby cash register), but once the sexy ones start to arrive, a few people might start to think twice and these could start creeping back to the market as cheap s/h... ok not Hornbys problem.

 

 

[KDG]

On 23/04/2019 at 18:02, adb968008 said:

If you recall Lyndons words.. “do more with less” are constantly repeated...

So doing more with less...Quick wins are thin in modern image today but there are some...

 

They could do a bunch of DRS37s.. 37419 is rumoured to return in Mainline, and 425 suggested Regional Railways, on top of all the other l/l blue ones.

 

47’s such as 47580 in Flag/Blue and with 47828 joining the WCRC in Intercity livery, could join some of Hoskings class 47’s D1924,35,44 in LSL Green, 1733 in Blue..47712 in ScR, 47375, plus RoG and VT.

 

 but if the amount of calls for a new 91 are to be believed, catching up some recent new livery / celeb 91’s (LNER, 91119,91132,Virgin Scot an 91101 etc) could do the same effect.

 

At the high detail end for 50’s.. GBRf (just do both at the same time rather than drawing it out over years), plus Intercity stand out.

 

Of course the one everyone would like is Hornby to all out on a dozen liveries on super detailed class 31’s post 1986 with headcode boxes and headlights.... Blue, Railfreight + RS, Dutch, Grey, Intercity ML, 31101, 31146/7 (Dutch Pwllheli pair) 31165, 31413 + 31/5 variants but they need to sharpen their pencil on price in the same way they managed to reduce the 66’s rrp by 30%.., I fear the only way this will happen is someone else to announce one first...

My Lima 31 fleet remains very large due to no replacements.

They could do some more GBRf class 73's too, the body is still pretty good for a 73/1, but not at £80

[adb968008]

2 minutes ago, KDG said:

They could do some more GBRf class 73's too, the body is still pretty good for a 73/1, but not at £80

I agree, I like the Dapol one. However its a slow performer, and livery has been an issue. I still have a few Lima 73’s, though most for sentimentality.

 

SWT, Southern, GBRF, Caledonian sleeper, Blue, Intercity all could have legs, you have to look the other way on the Sleeper version, but in absence of a correct one, and at the right price I know I would go for it... but that right price may be hard, as the detailed Dapol ones dont command a high price either.

[KDG]

Somebody really does need to do a proper class 73/9. Maybe Accurascale will do one to go with the mk5 sleepers.