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Sticky Point Motors


cessfordalan
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I have been asked to assist with a secondhand N gauge model railway purchased by a neighbour for his grandson. Nothing was running when I arrived but after a rail top polish a loco ran.Oh joy I though and tried to change the  Peco turnouts and motors] without success. On close inspection the motors look to be wired correctly and connected to a Gaugemaster C.D.U and controller transformer. I managed to identify A turnout and corresponding  centre sprung switch and physically  move the point blade over and using the switch it sprung back but it does not work the other way. Several other motors behaved the same way and some not at all. I am totally flumoxed . 

Dare I say thank you for all your help in advance.

 

Regards Alan [Cessfordalan]  

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If you disconnect the point motor physically from the point (but keep it connected electricall), you can test the motor without a load.  If it works smartly, then the trouble is either friction in the point itself or mis-alignment of the motor with the point.  If the disconnected motor does not operate well, then it could be the rod sticking as it passes through the solenoids.  A tiny amount of suitable oil on the rod may work - but make sure it is suitable for plastics and very thin.  If the point itself is sticking, a little of the same oil on the sleepers across which the switchblades move, may cure it.

 

I have had trouble after ballasting, when the PVA has run down the pin onto the rod; a little oil has cured it.  Prevention being better than a cure, I now remove the pioint motors before applying glue to ballast and refit them afterwards.

 

Harold.

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I would refrain from using Electrolube in an application close to electrical coils in case it created a short.  I would use sewing machine/clock oil or failing that WD 40 not really an oil as such but a cure to may problems.

Edited by Andy Hayter
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3 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

I would refrain from using Electrolube in an application close to electrical coils in case it created a short.  I would use sewing machine/clock oil or failing that WD 40 not really an oil as such but a cure to may problems.

Don't use WD40 as it often attacks some types of plastic. Hard to judge as it often takes time.

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7 hours ago, cessfordalan said:

I have been asked to assist with a secondhand N gauge model railway purchased by a neighbour for his grandson. Nothing was running when I arrived but after a rail top polish a loco ran.Oh joy I though and tried to change the  Peco turnouts and motors] without success. On close inspection the motors look to be wired correctly and connected to a Gaugemaster C.D.U and controller transformer. I managed to identify A turnout and corresponding  centre sprung switch and physically  move the point blade over and using the switch it sprung back but it does not work the other way. Several other motors behaved the same way and some not at all. I am totally flumoxed . 

Dare I say thank you for all your help in advance.

 

Regards Alan [Cessfordalan]  

You say the layout is 2nd hand.

Have you checked the resistance of the coils with a multimeter? If the layout has previously been used WITHOUT a CDU, maybe some coils are damaged.

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7 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Don't use WD40

Agreed.

 

I don't know about the attacking plastics part, but WD40 is a very viscous oil plus a solvent.

It's not in any way suitable for small parts where low friction is essential.

 

 

Edited by RobjUK
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9 hours ago, kevinlms said:

You say the layout is 2nd hand.

Have you checked the resistance of the coils with a multimeter? If the layout has previously been used WITHOUT a CDU, maybe some coils are damaged.

A CDU boosts the supply, not reduce it.

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1 minute ago, tarifa said:

A CDU boosts the supply, not reduce it.

I don't understand this comment - the reducing part.

 

If solenoid point motors are used without a CDU and the power isn't removed in time, the coil can become cooked.

A CDU does 2 tasks,

1/ it prevents the coil from cooking, by limiting the time the power is applied for.

2/ It also increases the voltage, (which is what you were alluding to, by saying it boosts the power).

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17 hours ago, cessfordalan said:

Hi Harold

Not wishing to advertise any particular product do you think Peco Electrolube oil would do? Thanks for the suggestion

 

Alan

Alan,

 

What I use is Hob-E-Lube Lite Oil by Woodland Scenics. Mine has the code HL654.

Harold.

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7 hours ago, kevinlms said:

I don't understand this comment - the reducing part.

 

If solenoid point motors are used without a CDU and the power isn't removed in time, the coil can become cooked.

A CDU does 2 tasks,

1/ it prevents the coil from cooking, by limiting the time the power is applied for.

2/ It also increases the voltage, (which is what you were alluding to, by saying it boosts the power).

I don't understand your comment ???.  CDU's do not reduce power as per your point 2, they are designed to boost it, e.g. to throw a Peco or similar solenoid point motor that requires additional volts, however the "green" Peco solenoid will operate with 12 volts.

 

A step down device such as a transformer is needed to reduce power.

 

The importance of the point switching device needs to be considered and highlighted, a biased off switch is needed to avoid cooking the solenoid once it is thrown.  An on/off switch will probably "cook" the solenoid as there is no means of cutting off the power.

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Good Evening All

 

Thank you for all your helpful advice, I will try and put it into practice sometime next week on my next visit.

One point however. How do you check the resistance in the coils I must admit my electrical knowledge is thin on the ground but I do have a multi meter. Can someone explain how in simple language 

 

Regards 

 

Alan[In the Sunny Outer Hebrides]

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Hi Alan, 

 

You can check the resistance of the coil by setting the meter to its lowest resistance setting, which will be indicated by an omega symbol. If you place the first probe on a connection to one side of the switch, and the other on the common connection if you are using a Hornby version, or the solder tag at the same end of the motor but on the opposite side if you are using a peco version.

 

If you can post a photo of the motor, I can confirm the terminals which need probing.

 

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

 

Kind regards

 

Rob

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On 01/04/2019 at 01:30, HLT 0109 said:

Alan,

 

What I use is Hob-E-Lube Lite Oil by Woodland Scenics. Mine has the code HL654.

Harold.

I use Wahl hair clipper oil.

 

Ron

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