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RMweb Gold - a new premium membership


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21 minutes ago, Chris M said:

It’s been great having access to all the information here for free but, being realistic, you can’t expect to get something for nothing for ever

 

I suppose I should be thankful for the honesty but, ultimately, that says what you think we're all worth.

 

4 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

If a charge to visit is made and I take it up I will then expect to have some say in its running or direction other than to just go or stay.

 

You've just trebled the cost if you think I'll be holding ongoing committee meetings.

 

I don't that's a realistic expectation.

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15 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

If a charge to visit is made and I take it up I will then expect to have some say in its running or direction other than to just go or stay.

 

 

Why such an unrealistic expectation! When you buy a tin of baked beans do you expect to have a say in Heinz is run?

 

When you open a bank account do you expect to be able to tell them how to run things.

 

When you sign up with an energy company do you expect to be able to influence their energy purchasing strategy?

 

No, in reality you are just a consumer with very little power - if you want to change things or register your discontent at something then you either have to take your business elsewhere (and hope enough like minded people do the same) or become a shareholder (and assume there are enough like minded shareholders to have an impact at the AGM).

 

RMWeb is not some sort of Government agency or preservation outfit looking after valuable artefacts (where it could be argued grater scrutiny by members is needed) - it exists because of the drive and determination of Andy Y plus a few close friends who continue to invest time and effort in the site outside their contracted hours.

 

As with all other ventures if you don't like the way its being run then you can always leave. If enough other people feel the same way then obviously Andy / BRM will, like any business venture, see what they can do to stem the flow - but thats not the same thing as you having a direct voice in how the thing is run.

 

Despite RMWeb being 'owned' by BRM (without whose investment the site would have most likely folded years ago) its still very much Andy's gaff - Andy's rules.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do yoy have a 'say in

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4 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

You've just trebled the cost if you think I'll be holding ongoing committee meetings.

 

I don't that's a realistic expectation.

 

I'm only going to a committee meeting if you've got biscuits.

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  • RMweb Gold

For reasons not applicable to this thread I still have gold membership, it’s less than I used to contribute when the hat got passed around* and I actually have access to several magazines as well as rmweb. 
it was too much time and cost for one person to bear so Warner’s taking it on was a good thing. 

* I remember those that said they shouldn’t need to contribute as they’re posts were given freely, quite why they’d be paid for a wish list must have made sense to them. 

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2 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

 

I'm only going to a committee meeting if you've got biscuits.

 

Hence the sharp increase in costs. Just hope it's not on a day that's your birthday as you have to bring cakes in; no cheap Battenburg either!

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20 minutes ago, Barnaby said:

If a charge to visit is made and I take it up I will then expect to have some say in its running or direction other than to just go or stay. 

I hope I never manage an exhibition at which you turn up...

How well did this go with the manager of your local football club?

 

I think you are equating subscription with membership.

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6 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

If a charge to visit is made and I take it up I will then expect to have some say in its running or direction other than to just go or stay.

If you look on this forum as a club, which I, and many others view it as, I expect, then in every club I know of, then the members have a say, at least once a year, in how it is run, at the agm. The attraction here, in the forum, is the membership, we are truly the product, not a tin of beans, a football team, whatever.Seeing what folk are doing, asking for information, etc. from each other. As far as I'm concerned, Warners are providing the venue, but not much of the forum content. They need to cover the cost of the 'premises and caretaker', They can recover some of those costs by putting up paid advertising posters for other companies, selling subscriptions to their products to the members at reduced rates/whatever, etc. But the forum is the membership, and many of us generally just want to chat. The product being sold is the ramblings of the membership. It is one thing to give free advice, (it being worth the paper it's written on) It's quite another to expect the giver of the advice to pay for the privilege of giving it, unless they have a vested/monetary  interest in what they are discussing..

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7 minutes ago, raymw said:

It's quite another to expect the giver of the advice to pay for the privilege of giving it, unless they have a vested/monetary  interest in what they are discussing..

 

But all those who ask for assistance expect to get the said expertise / help for free ...  

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18 minutes ago, raymw said:

The product being sold is the ramblings of the membership. It is one thing to give free advice, (it being worth the paper it's written on) It's quite another to expect the giver of the advice to pay for the privilege of giving it, unless they have a vested/monetary  interest in what they are discussing..

 

What you're paying for, though, isn't the privilege of contributing your pearls of wisdom, it's having somewhere in which to contribute them. Also, I hope, even if you are offering a lot of valuable free advice, you are also benefitting from the opportunity to read and learn from the contributions of others. There's nothing worse than a forum participant who treats it as a write-only medium.

 

Now, it is, undoubtedly, true that a forum is nothing without at least a core of regular participants. There would be nothing here to monetise if there were no discussions going on. But then, if there were no discussions going on, Warners could shut it down and spend the money on something else, and none of us would be any worse off.

 

I think part of the issue here is that many people aren't aware of just how labour-intensive a popular forum is to administer. There are some types of website that do run effectively on autopilot and can, therefore, easily cover their hosting costs and the relatively light administration costs from advertising. But forums are not, typically, among them. From a technical perspective they are a complex piece of code that needs fairly high spec hardware to run on. From a human perspective there's a lot of work involved in moderation and dealing with queries and complaints. As I've said further upthread, the biggest cost of a professionally run website is paying the salaries of the people who look after it. The commitment, both in time and money, of the forum operator vastly exceeds that of the participants. It's not at all unreasonable that they should seek to monetise the forum in a way which makes that all worthwhile.

 

That's not to say that there isn't a valid debate to be had about the way in which it is monetised. Just like there's a valid debate to be had about the design and price of the latest Hornby releases, for example, or the balance of layouts and traders at an exhibition. But the most useful contributions to that debate come from those who can offer an informed perspective, those who can give a reasoned explanation of their point of view and those who accept that their opinion isn't necessarily shared by everyone else. And the least useful contributions come from those who enter the debate with a sense of entitlement, thinking that Warners, or Hornby, or the world, owes them something.

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1 hour ago, raymw said:

If you look on this forum as a club, which I, and many others view it as, I expect, then in every club I know of, then the members have a say, at least once a year, in how it is run, at the agm. The attraction here, in the forum, is the membership, we are truly the product, not a tin of beans, a football team, whatever.Seeing what folk are doing, asking for information, etc. from each other. As far as I'm concerned, Warners are providing the venue, but not much of the forum content. They need to cover the cost of the 'premises and caretaker', They can recover some of those costs by putting up paid advertising posters for other companies, selling subscriptions to their products to the members at reduced rates/whatever, etc. But the forum is the membership, and many of us generally just want to chat. The product being sold is the ramblings of the membership. It is one thing to give free advice, (it being worth the paper it's written on) It's quite another to expect the giver of the advice to pay for the privilege of giving it, unless they have a vested/monetary  interest in what they are discussing..


While I agree that the ‘club’ feeling of RMWeb is a large part of the sites appeal, the bottom line is it isn’t a club - its a forum owned by a commercial company.

 

That BRM have left it mostly alone and let Andy Y still call the shots as it were is very much appreciated- but it’s a voluntary action which they are under no obligation to continue if its perceived by BRM (or their accountants) to be wasting money and ultimately disadvantage given the shareholders in BRM.

 

This contrasts with a formal club or society where members are legally part of the process of deciding its future - very much akin to how shareholders hold the power in commercial companies.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:


While I agree that the ‘club’ feeling of RMWeb is a large part of the sites appeal, the bottom line is it isn’t a club - its a forum owned by a commercial company.

 

That BRM have left it mostly alone and let Andy Y still call the shots as it were is very much appreciated- but it’s a voluntary action which they are under no obligation to continue if its perceived by BRM (or their accountants) to be wasting money and ultimately disadvantage given the shareholders in BRM.

 

This contrasts with a formal club or society where members are legally part of the process of deciding its future - very much akin to how shareholders hold the power in commercial companies.

 

 

I have read some absolute billhooks on this forum, but that was the dog’s billhooks.

 

More power to your elbow, sir!

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13 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:


While I agree that the ‘club’ feeling of RMWeb is a large part of the sites appeal, the bottom line is it isn’t a club - its a forum owned by a commercial company.

 

That BRM have left it mostly alone and let Andy Y still call the shots as it were is very much appreciated- but it’s a voluntary action which they are under no obligation to continue if its perceived by BRM (or their accountants) to be wasting money and ultimately disadvantage given the shareholders in BRM.

 

This contrasts with a formal club or society where members are legally part of the process of deciding its future - very much akin to how shareholders hold the power in commercial companies.

 

 

 

An observation from the last comment,

 

Many  societies are not legal entities, there is little legal responsibility or expectation on behalf of the members.  Transactions undertaken by the officers of the society are legally in the officers name with all of the liability that comes with it.  This is why model railway clubs that organise 'big' shows operate as public limited liability companies because the individual that books the hall or the accommodation is personally responsible for any costs in the event of a legal dispute.

 

It can take all of the fun out of it.

 

Andy

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2 hours ago, MarkSG said:

 

I'm only going to a committee meeting if you've got biscuits.

 

As biscuits monitor, I will ensure the quality. That membership is £50 per week is a reflection of this. 

 

2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Hence the sharp increase in costs. Just hope it's not on a day that's your birthday as you have to bring cakes in; no cheap Battenburg either!

 

Battenburg is fine with me. If you don't want it, I'll have your slice. 

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7 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

OK; how much would you feel comfortable paying to have ad-free access?

 

It's not the ads that have been here for ages Andy it the pop ups that seem to have just started. 

How about a fiver a month for ads but no pop ups? Ads that are model related are actually quite useful I've ordered all sorts from different shops. 

But at the moment I'm getting loads of pop ups from GSF and videos of garden birds! 

 

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19 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

It's not the ads that have been here for ages Andy it the pop ups that seem to have just started. 

How about a fiver a month for ads but no pop ups? Ads that are model related are actually quite useful I've ordered all sorts from different shops. 

But at the moment I'm getting loads of pop ups from GSF and videos of garden birds! 

 

 

 

the garden birds are better than the daffodil but, but i like the under waterviews of the turtle, well i did for a while.

 

Happy to be part of the trial.  ohh a chaffinch, or is that a bull finch?

 

Andy

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1 hour ago, beast66606 said:

 

But all those who ask for assistance expect to get the said expertise / help for free ...  

But, in turn, I expect most of them pay it forward, and are able to help others. That is the way in which fora generally operate. If this forum is looked on as more akin to training tutorials, then the tutors should be paid. I'm not sure how many members just sign up to ask a question, and then disappear or only ask questions, never giving back anything. I'm not sure if any of that approach is desirable or not, I suppose from a commercial point of view, every click on an ad helps.

Personally, I maybe log in once or twice a day, but I'm not looking very often at what I 'signed up for', I've moved away form model railways a bit, over the last five years or so. I will not be paying any subscription, nothing against those who, or those wanting a payment, but it is just not worth it to me.  I've just checked - the last model railway magazine I bought was June 2016, and it's still unread.

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13 minutes ago, raymw said:

But, in turn, I expect most of them pay it forward, and are able to help others. That is the way in which fora generally operate. If this forum is looked on as more akin to training tutorials, then the tutors should be paid. I'm not sure how many members just sign up to ask a question, and then disappear or only ask questions, never giving back anything. I'm not sure if any of that approach is desirable or not, I suppose from a commercial point of view, every click on an ad helps.

Personally, I maybe log in once or twice a day, but I'm not looking very often at what I 'signed up for', I've moved away form model railways a bit, over the last five years or so. I will not be paying any subscription, nothing against those who, or those wanting a payment, but it is just not worth it to me.  I've just checked - the last model railway magazine I bought was June 2016, and it's still unread.

 

Personally, and it really is a personal view with no judgement.  Nothing, gives me greater pleasure and reward on Rm web than giving advise and maybe, hopefully, helping someone and moving the hobby on a bit.  

 

I think that is what it is all about.

 

Ohh, the daffodil's back.

 

Andy

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.

 

Whilst working/resting on my computer I usually have a microsoft "free" solataire game open, for when I am waiting, or bored.

 

This originally came "free", but after a while every 20 games or so a 30 second pop-up advert would appear and annoy me.  Later again, it had loud music which one had to mute to stop anyone on the ground floor of my house being annoyed.

 

Surely anyone with half a  brain would have worked out after the first 20 or so noisy interruptions that I wasn't interested, but still they continue (unless I pay to have them stopped ! )

 

So, what am I meant  to make of Microsoft and their attempts at extortion ?   Why do you think that I would think kindly on a company that wanted to annoy me into paying them money ?

 

Now, when it comes to these pop-ups that will be (?)  fully implemented on this site, what do you think I will feel towards those people who advertise using them ?   If it is a company that I have no interest in using,  then I'll just get annoyed with the site.   If it is a model railway associated company then I will just get annoyed and, probably, be less likely to use them.  Why would you buy from a company which is helping to make you annoyed ?

 

I do not understand the logic of these pop-up annoyances.

 

.

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21 minutes ago, phil gollin said:

Surely anyone with half a  brain would have worked out after the first 20 or so noisy interruptions that I wasn't interested, but still they continue (unless I pay to have them stopped ! )

 

So, what am I meant  to make of Microsoft and their attempts at extortion ?   Why do you think that I would think kindly on a company that wanted to annoy me into paying them money ?

 

And yet, advertising, demonstrably, works.

 

22 minutes ago, phil gollin said:

I do not understand the logic of these pop-up annoyances.

 

That's fine. You don't need to. It works equally well whether you understand it or not.

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1 hour ago, phil gollin said:

what do you think I will feel towards those people who advertise using them ?  

 

It's not extortion, it's a means to cover the costs of you using the site for free.

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35 minutes ago, russ p said:

Got sick of daffodils dolphins and god knows what else

 

Dolphins? All I'm getting is ships and pastry.

 

Given the variety of subjects, I suppose one of us is probably lucky enough to get trains!

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