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Silberlingen Formations


Julia
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I would like to add a silberlingen push/pull set to my collection. I'm modelling German Epoch III. 

 

My current thought is a rake of 3 Piko silberlingen coaches and a V100. Is a rake of 3 prototypical? Or did they usually run in longer formations?

 

What do people think of the quality of the Piko coaches? Is there a better quality model available?

 

Thanks

 

J

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27 minutes ago, Julia said:

 

I would like to add a silberlingen push/pull set to my collection. I'm modelling German Epoch III. 

 

My current thought is a rake of 3 Piko silberlingen coaches and a V100. Is a rake of 3 prototypical? Or did they usually run in longer formations?

 

What do people think of the quality of the Piko coaches? Is there a better quality model available?

 

Thanks

 

J

 

Lok + 2/3 is prototypical, I travelled on a number of DB trains so formed in the early/mid-1990s. 

 

211 023-7 Bayerisch Eisenstein

 

211 036-9

 

Can't help you on the Piko front I'm afraid (being a DR modeller) but AFAIK the Piko one is the correct scale length. 

 

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Cannot comment on Piko but Lima produced some nicely detailed, scale length Silberlingen coaches, including a driving trailer.

 

Not sure if they are still in production but can possibly be found on ebay.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Claude_Dreyfus said:

Piko are pretty good...their latest offerings are scale length. If you're feeling rich, there's also the Brawa version.

 

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Brawa/5-4-001012-312811-0-0-0-3-3-2-0-gatt-gb-p-0/ein_produkt.html

 

 

OOOOh, that is pretty! I like!

 

I notice the driving cab version on the Brawa website has an interesting picture, 

 

csm_46503_f1b3059439.png

 

Can anyone identify the coach and loco behind the silberling? 

 

Thanks

 

J

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Thanks all, 

 

I'm trying to understand the coach codes that are listed by Piko and Brawa. 

 

Brawa lists: AB4N-59,B4NB-59 (x2) , BPW4NF-59,

Piko lists: BD4nf, B4nb, AB4nb 

 

What do the codes mean? Am I right in thinking if I got 1 of each, and put the three piko ones together, and the 4 Brawa ones together, I'd end up with two prototypical formations? 

 

J

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I cannot give a detailed answer on what codes actually mean, but yes, they denote the carriage type (something akin to the British classifications FO, BSK etc.). In theory getting one of each would give you a plausible consist. 

 

There are plenty of sites out there giving more details...the one below is good (the silberlingen listed are older Roco models)

 

http://www.noetzel24.de/index.php?id=84

 

Also, if you don't have too much luck here, there is an English language German railway forum here.

 

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/germanrailfr/

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I believe the train seen in the photo is a local train which ran in the Hamburg Area.The two green coaches were known as umbau ( rebuilt) wagon being new bodies fitted to Prussian 6 wheel chassis.Some were still in use in Koln in 1976!

The train as shown features in Eisenbahn Kurier DVD 8249,Verkehrsknoten Hamburg and the loco was a class78

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11 hours ago, Julia said:

 

Thanks all, 

 

I'm trying to understand the coach codes that are listed by Piko and Brawa. 

 

Brawa lists: AB4N-59,B4NB-59 (x2) , BPW4NF-59,

Piko lists: BD4nf, B4nb, AB4nb 

 

What do the codes mean? Am I right in thinking if I got 1 of each, and put the three piko ones together, and the 4 Brawa ones together, I'd end up with two prototypical formations? 

 

J

 

The A, B, D, etc is a UIC classification (i.e. Europe wide). I don't recognise the other classifications , so they are probably DB/DR before the UIC came into force.

 

A - 1st class, B - 2nd class, C - 3rd class, D - baggage brake. The number is the number of compartments/seating bays.

 

So a brake second with 4 compartments is a B4D. An all first is A7, A8......

 

An LSWR tri-compo with it's brake compartment would be fun: A2B2C3D.

 

The UIC system also gets difficult with coupe compartments and couchettes which can involve numbers expressed as fractions.

 

And finally, another quirk, motorail vehicles are counted as baggage brakes and numbered in the D series.

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11 hours ago, sncf231e said:

The coach are actually two close coupled coaches; so called donnerbüchsen, one second class and one first/second class. The locomotive looks like a Baureihe 78 to me.

Regards

Fred

 

I agree that it's a 78, one of my favourite locos - but then I have a liking for big tank locos.

 

But I think the "thunder box" nickname only applies to the 4w variant which certainly lived up to that epithet. The 6w version was quite civilised.

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11 hours ago, Julia said:

 

OOOOh, that is pretty! I like!

 

I notice the driving cab version on the Brawa website has an interesting picture, 

 

csm_46503_f1b3059439.png

 

Can anyone identify the coach and loco behind the silberling? 

 

Thanks

 

J

 

Would that be a shunt move? I have never seen a service train in that format and I don't think the 6w rebuilds were push-pull fitted.

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42 minutes ago, Steamysandy said:

I believe the train seen in the photo is a local train which ran in the Hamburg Area.The two green coaches were known as umbau ( rebuilt) wagon being new bodies fitted to Prussian 6 wheel chassis.Some were still in use in Koln in 1976!

The train as shown features in Eisenbahn Kurier DVD 8249,Verkehrsknoten Hamburg and the loco was a class78

A check of the DVD reveals it ran between Bergedorf and Altmuhl till1968/9.Loco numbers appear to be 78-206 and 78-235

It was definitely push- pull operated

Edited by Steamysandy
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12 hours ago, sncf231e said:

The coach are actually two close coupled coaches; so called donnerbüchsen, one second class and one first/second class. The locomotive looks like a Baureihe 78 to me.

Regards

Fred

 

Sorry, I think they are the DB Umbauwagen (rebuilt coaches), 3-axle, close coupled, not 2-axle Donnerbuschen.

Lok looks like a Br78 2-C-2 (4-6-4T)

 

As... just noticed the question was correctly answered further down the thread... that'll teach me to scroll right down!!

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43 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

A - 1st class, B - 2nd class, C - 3rd class, D - baggage brake. The number is the number of compartments/seating bays.

 

So a brake second with 4 compartments is a B4D. An all first is A7, A8......

 

An LSWR tri-compo with it's brake compartment would be fun: A2B2C3D.

 

 

In the original classification system, the number is actually the number of axles, the number being omitted for 2-axle vehicles. For example, the AB3yg Umbauwagen was first/second class, 3-axle with enclosed rubber connections. 

 

Tony

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2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

The A, B, D, etc is a UIC classification (i.e. Europe wide). I don't recognise the other classifications , so they are probably DB/DR before the UIC came into force.

 

A - 1st class, B - 2nd class, C - 3rd class, D - baggage brake. The number is the number of compartments/seating bays.

 

So a brake second with 4 compartments is a B4D. An all first is A7, A8......

 

An LSWR tri-compo with it's brake compartment would be fun: A2B2C3D.

 

The UIC system also gets difficult with coupe compartments and couchettes which can involve numbers expressed as fractions.

 

And finally, another quirk, motorail vehicles are counted as baggage brakes and numbered in the D series.

The German system was different in that the number of compartments weren't counted but the French Railways certainly did as above

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The 3-axle Umbau coaches (as in the photo) were push-pull fitted; their code is B3yge. There were no driving trailers however, hence the Silberling with the older-style cab (there is a newer style of cab too). These coaches always travelled in close-coupled pairs.

 

The bogie Umbau coaches (Byge) were not push-pull fitted.

Edited by D9020 Nimbus
Add info about Byge coaches.
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If my observations are part of a larger picture then Silberlingen in plastic at 1:87 seem occasionally to go a bit banana-shaped in the manufacturing process. I was disappointed to notice that one of the Piko ones I bought online suffered in this respect. It wouldn't be so bad if it sagged a little, but (probably to do with the way things go with the tension in the plastic moulding) it arches. I've seen this in another one of scale length -- can't remember the manufacturer.

 

(I'd stay away from anything not scale length by the way, even if it was less likely to sag!)

 

The window frames in the Piko ones are a bit overcooked, but otherwise the models are reasonable given where they are pegged pricewise against Roco's ones (I don't have any of those to do a visual comparison but they do look a little sharper). Shall we say the Pikos would be a good choice if you wanted to create a long train? I thought the ride height of mine was too high, and fiddled about with the bogie pivots. I'm not sure this was a great idea, and it was complicated by the sagging as the bogies are a fair way in from the ends. Moral: check for warp on delivery and if in doubt send it back!

 

I wonder what Brawa have done to represent the 'peacock's eyes' -- the circular burnishings on the lower bodysides of the prototype. Different manufacturers have tried various ploys to represent these, some resembling fish scales more than anything else. I'm sure the general feel of the Brawa model will be lovely and the detailing characteristically delicate.

 

Secondhand Ade Silberlingen from the 1980s are interesting but I think my advice would be to avoid unless you want to spend a lot of time fiddling about with them. Ade coaches were (as I understand) originally sold only as kits and have amongst other things an innovative and slightly maddening coupling system of their own. The details are great with lovely filigree bogies that capture the very fine parts of the prototype, but it's fairly easy even for me to point out a couple of things that aren't really right about the bodies and I have never seen such thin tyres and such deep flanges combined in a single NEM wheel as with Ade.

 

I very much like the photo of the possible push-pull train (Wendezug), thanks for sharing that. I particularly like the combination of the massive Prussian T18 / BR 78 (a design dating back to 1912) with the long, sleek and evidently lightweight Silberling -- even with the rather messy details of the sides and ends, the driving trailer (Steuerwagen) is like a spaceship alongside all that cast iron and plumbing. I hope to be able to replicate it in miniature some time, and perhaps meanwhile someone can confirm whether it would have been possible to run the control connection from the Steuerwagen through to the loco via the two 6-wheelers?

 

Ben

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7 minutes ago, adecoaches26point4 said:

They were the early versions and can be used for push/pull services, I noted a three coach set, all in green, including a driving coach in Paderborn.

 

Thanks! I have just found a photo that shows exactly that, in August 1968. It's on page 39 of Eisenbahn Journal Exklusiv 1-2015, Wendezüge in Deutschland, and shows exactly the same train formation with 78 246 pushing. Could be the same vehicles, though the weather is much sunnier. Perhaps earlier in the day?

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