Wills 1854 needs TLC

[The Johnster]

Followers of my Cwmdimbath topic, South Wales Valleys in the 1950s, on Layout topics, will be aware that I've been given a Wills 1854, which I'm going to work up as 1730, which was at Tondu for a short while at the beginning of my 1948-58 period, withdrawn 31/3/48.  

 

First job was to examine what I'd been given.  It's nearly all there, but has had a hard, and I suspect long, life. It appears to have been painted overall green, including the smokebox, at one time, but it has been stripped and only patches remain.  It runs, after a fashion, but is reverse polarity for my layout.  Can't simply turn the motor round as there is a brass gearbox, and it has meshing problems despite this because the worm is loose on the motor shaft.  

 

I have managed to lose one of the carbon brushes but have replaced it with one from a defunct Mashima motor, another gift, the holder for which will have to be glued in.  The loco's motor is an Anchorage DS10.

 

Running is not good though.  Left front Romford driving wheel, on the driven axle, is loose on it's retaining bolt.

 

So, work in hand:-

 

.Desolder motor connections (bottom brush holder is soldered direct to live chassis) so that polarity can be reversed.

.Strip chassis of wheels and pull driving axle out after loosening cog grub screw (Romford 40:1 gears).

.Clean everything.

.Repaint chassis block.

.Replace wheels and possibly axles depending on availability of Romford wheels, and make decision about continuing with live chassis.

.Replace crankpins and possibly coupling rods if I can find a suitable candidate, as rods are bent out of shape.  If not replace, straighten rods.

.Source wheel centre and balance weight etches.

.Reassemble chassis and test run.  When happy...

.Strip remaining paint from body, currently in 2 pieces, which are footplate/cab/bunker and boiler/tanks.

.Replace missing buffers, probably replace all four so that they match.

.Assemble body to chassis, and fettle to run if there is any fouling.

.Replace broken tank side/front handrail.

.Fit new smokebox dart and my standard lamp irons.

.Paint body.  Probable livery for a loco withdrawn in March 1948 assuming it's withdrawal to be at the expiry of a 2 year extended 5 year boiler ticket, last repaint would have been 1941, in GWR shirtbutton unlined green, unless better information comes to light.  Cab floor to be faded dirty wood.  Livery box ticked!

.Apply transfers, shirtbutton and buffer beam numbers.

.Apply Parkside NEM mounts and tension lock couplers.  This might not be possible if I am to keep the couplers at the correct distance out from the buffer beams, and some bodgery may be needed!

.Fill or part fill bunker with coal.

.Glaze cab spectacle plate windows,

.Fit crew, essential in such an open cab.

.(Optional) Fit canvas cover between cab roof and bunker.  It rains a lot in South Wales.

.Fit number plates.  Kit or commissioned etched brass.

.Weathering.

.To service.

 

That's 20 or 21 separate phases, so we'll be some time.  I intend this to be a 'background' project to be progressed as and when; currently the priority is the A31 auto trailer but I will proceed with this when I am stuck with that and when opportunity presents itself.  So it may well take over a year; I'll bump it up the priority list when the A31 is in service!  I'll post progress here in the hope that my adventure will be of some use to anyone trying the same sort of thing; I'm sure there will be problems I haven't foreseen to overcome.  Bit of old fashioned 'proper' modelling, not very high tec or fidelity and I haven't yet addressed the lack of brake and rodding below the footplate (maybe cut up surplus Bachmann pannier keeper plate).

 

Cost so far has been entirely acceptable, but that won't last long.  I'm not going to set a budget limit for the project, but will keep a running total of costs as interest to anyone considering doing something similar.  I'm guessing it'll top out at about £50 or £60 squids; be fun to see how inaccurate I turn out to be!

[Barclay]

Look forward to seeing your progress - any chance of a picture?

[lofty1966]

You really ought to treat it to an S E Finecast etched brass chassis.

Lots of lovely detail !

[hayfield]

12 hours ago, lofty1966 said:

You really ought to treat it to an S E Finecast etched brass chassis.

Lots of lovely detail !

 

 

Might be worth asking Dave Ellis for a parts list as the revised Southeastern Finecast models revised kit has additional castings, lovely loco well worth the extra trouble. Also a new High Level gearbox would improve matters, but I doubt if any would fit the older cast chassis

[The Johnster]

Given the amount of work involved in refurbishing the current chassis, a Finecast etched chassis is certainly worth considering.  It’s a long time since I did anything on this level and I would have no mean amount of trepidation about undertaking it, but the fact I’m considering it means it might happen one day!  

[The Johnster]

£32 for the Southeastern etched chassis kit, which I assume is basically the fold up brass chassis and some top hat bearings, along with the brakes and rodding; within my pocket without too much of a push.  I already have a working motor and gearbox, and can presumably re-use the Romford axles as well, so would guess wheels are all that are needed to complete assuming that the coupling rods are included in the kit.  This is beginning to look more and more like the sensible way to go with this project, but will probably mean a delay while I complete the A31 auto trailer which, to be honest, the layout is more in need of.  That done, I can order the chassis kit and start building it; wheels may need a little research and I won't be rushing the job so it could still be a good bit of time before 1730 turns a wheel in anger, or even so much as a fit of pique...

 

I'm moderately confident of my ability to build it, as I've successfully previously built a fold up chassis, nickel silver for a Westward 64xx.  That practically fell together, even with my clumsy sausage fingers.  It is sort of a shame to scrap the old chassis, but it's a bit far gone especially with a wheel loose and rather bent coupling rods, and the extra detail of the new kit will be worth having.

 

[lofty1966]

It’s a nice straight forward build Mr J.

I have built a few over the years and always been pleased with them.

[The Johnster]

Thanks for the encouragement, Lofty; i've got it fixed in the ruins of what was once, they tell me, a fine instrument, my seldom used brain, that Finecast stuff is 'hard' and a for 'real' modellers.  A fold up chassis should (famous last words) be within my capacity!

 

So, this thread, when it eventually gets properly under way, will be a chronicle of the building of such a chassis, a slight change in intent...

[lofty1966]

14 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Thanks for the encouragement, Lofty; i've got it fixed in the ruins of what was once, they tell me, a fine instrument, my seldom used brain, that Finecast stuff is 'hard' and a for 'real' modellers.  A fold up chassis should (famous last words) be within my capacity!

 

So, this thread, when it eventually gets properly under way, will be a chronicle of the building of such a chassis, a slight change in intent...

It's not fold up per se. It screws together and then you can solder "stretcher plates" without fear of movement

[lofty1966]

[LaScala]

Isn't the easy way out a Bachmann pannier chassis? http://www.gwr.org.uk/pro2721.html

[The Johnster]

Well, looking at that confirms that it's an improvement on the one I've got, a solid mazak lump. and I'm fairly sure I can make it up once it's screwed, even with my soldering!  There's hope for 1730 yet!  

 

I like the cab on your model, but mine will be a half cab with the canvas weather sheet in position.  I did this years ago on an Airfix Dean Goods, and was quite pleased with myself; it drew some favourable comment at shows!

 

Thanks LaScala, I've seen the gw website 2721 Bachmann chassis conversion, but I'm not at all sure the easy way out is a Bachmann chassis; I've measured one up for a Hornby 2721 which is not too different from an 1854; a good deal of surgery in the form of removing plastic from the inside of the 'skirts' is needed to clear the can motor, and the worm intrudes into the cab at the bottom of the firebox backhead.  The 2721 runs fairly well with it's original Hornby generic Jinty chassis, which at least has wheels that align with the splashers even it they are wrong, and I've learned to love it...  This worm intrusion into the cab is not acceptable IMHO on a half cab, where this area is very visible even with the canvas weather sheet over it.  On top of that, the fishbelly coupling rods of the Bachmann panniers, correct for those models, are not correct for an 1854, which had either plain or fluted parallel rods. 

 

I am pretty convinced that a new Finecast chassis is the way to go with this loco.

 

[Craigw]

This is my 1854, built for me by John James from the Martin Finney kit. P4 standards. It will become 1738 when I remember to fit the plates, it is modelled in early 1920s condition. One cannot see enough photos of 1854 models in my opinion.

 

Regards,

 

Craig

[lofty1966]

1 hour ago, LaScala said:

Isn't the easy way out a Bachmann pannier chassis? http://www.gwr.org.uk/pro2721.html

Wheel base is a mile off !

[lofty1966]

Different back ends.

Two on old cast chassis ' but I have two etched to be made

I cut the bunker off one and donated it to a metro.

A Bachy 57xx wreck donated a bunker to the one that got chopped!

Edited April 7, 2019 by lofty1966
added text

[The Johnster]

10 hours ago, Craigw said:

This is my 1854, built for me by John James from the Martin Finney kit. P4 standards. It will become 1738 when I remember to fit the plates, it is modelled in early 1920s condition. One cannot see enough photos of 1854 models in my opinion.

 

Regards,

 

Craig

No argument there, Craig.  That shot will be a guidance for the balance weights on 1730, which'll be a crude 00 compromise in comparison to this lovely very well made and finished Martin Finney loco.

[The Johnster]

10 hours ago, lofty1966 said:

Different back ends.

Two on old cast chassis ' but I have two etched to be made

I cut the bunker off one and donated it to a metro.

A Bachy 57xx wreck donated a bunker to the one that got chopped!

I have a spare Baccy 57xx bunker, but am not sure if the extended version had found it's way on to 1730 in the loco's latter days, so have not made a decision to fit it.  1730 will look most like the left hand loco, in heavily weathered shirtbutton livery which I reckon is probably what the loco carried in 1948.

[LaScala]

18 hours ago, lofty1966 said:

Wheel base is a mile off !

I am pretty sure every GWR large tank from the 633 through to the 94xx had precisely the same wheelbase.  The Dean Goods and Collett 22xx also has the same wheelbase but larger wheels.

[twiggy1969]

20 minutes ago, LaScala said:

I am pretty sure every GWR large tank from the 633 through to the 94xx had precisely the same wheelbase.  The Dean Goods and Collett 22xx also has the same wheelbase but larger wheels.

no

 

drawings here show them to be different

 

http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/loco_draw.htm

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by twiggy1969

[LaScala]

11 minutes ago, twiggy1969 said:

no

Well that clears that up doesn't it.  7'3+8'3"" is wheelbase for 633, 57xx, 94xx & Dean Goods and close relative the 22xx, not to mention the 1854

[twiggy1969]

7'4+7'4 for the 54,64.and 74xx

 

[LaScala]

13 minutes ago, twiggy1969 said:

7'4+7'4 for the 54,64.and 74xx

 

These are derivatives of the "small" Wolverhampton tanks starting with 2021 class & culminating in the Hawksworth 16xx. That's why I originally stated "large tank".

The key point is that the 1854 is a direct ancestor of the 57xx with just the 2721 in between.

[The Johnster]

A word of caution about 2251 and the derivate 94xx; wheel spacing is indeed the same as 57xx/8750 and their predecessors, but chassis are not interchangeable for modelling purposes.  The frame profile is different on both 2251 and 94xx, and the 94xx has plate frames.  

 

Hasn’t stopped me happily using a Bachmann chassis under a Lima 94xx body, but I’ll be happier when the Bachmann 94xx comes out!

 

I am also content to run a Hornby 2721, albeit worked up a bit, and this involves plastic skirts under the boiler and a chassis that is incorrect in terms of wheel spacing for any UK prototype AFAIK, just to put things in perspective...