MRJ 270

[Captain Kernow]

17 minutes ago, Torper said:

I have never seen white roads and assume that they are not white on what are excellent models. 

I agree, but on the other hand, I've never seen a very dark grey or black road, unless it's literally brand new tarmac. Well-used tarmac roads, where the tarmac has aged and weathered down, can be very light in colour.

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

The pictures may not arguably be of the highest quality reproduction, but at least Brian (Helicopter) Monaghan isn't taking them!

 

Mike.

[pete_mcfarlane]

2 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

I agree, but on the other hand, I've never seen a very dark grey or black road, unless it's literally brand new tarmac. Well-used tarmac roads, where the tarmac has aged and weathered down, can be very light in colour.

 

Black roads are a bit 'train set'. My childhood layouts certainly had them...

 

I've read George Cushing's 'Steam at Thursford' where he mentions that most of the tarmac roads he laid in the 1930s we're pretty much untouched 50 odd years later (Cushing made his money as a road laying contractor in 1930s Norfolk as part of a country wide boom in tarmacing rural roads, and like any sensible person used the cash to preserve steam engines).

 

So maybe there was a period when large swathes of Britain's roads were dark coloured fresh tarmac, and they've spent the last 80 years slowly weathering. 

 

[Pint of Adnams]

4 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

I agree, but on the other hand, I've never seen a very dark grey or black road, unless it's literally brand new tarmac. Well-used tarmac roads, where the tarmac has aged and weathered down, can be very light in colour.

 

Many roads, especially minor A and lesser routes are sprayed with tar, coated with chippings and then fine dust from the chippings is applied to stop the tar 'bleeding' in hot weather and sticking to vehicle tyres and so on. The apparent colour of the surface is dependent almost entirely on the colour of the chippings, which are typically light grey in colour (and may appear almost white in bright sunlight) but may be shades of red or even greenish or blue-grey according to where the highway authority sources or specifies its materials.

 

A black surface would be asphalt, not tar, which in itself has chippings to increase the durability of the wearing course. These are usually coated and blend in, but coloured chippings may be used for a decorative effect in special areas. Asphalt will remain black but with a very slight greying due to dust and other deposits.

 

I should add that black tarmacadam will be black-coated chippings in a binder that is generally only found on private roads and footways as it is insufficiently durable for well-trafficked routes.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Pint of Adnams

[Regularity]

Am I correct in saying that Justin Newitt = Rumney Models?

Didn’t think the article made it totally clear that this was effectively a trade piece - albeit an extremely informative and interesting one by a small trader providing useful parts.

(Criticism is on the magazine, not the article nor the author. If I have missed something, apologies in advance.)

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Regularity

[Captain Kernow]

3 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Am I correct in saying that Justin Newitt = Rumney Models?

 

Yes.

 

Justin is, of course, active on here, so perhaps he may wish to comment at some stage.

 

[Izzy]

In my neck of the woods - North East Essex - I can remember the distant times when the roads were regularly ‘dressed’, usually every few years at least if not every one, by spraying tar and laying down fine chippings, which were of a very light sandy colour. Given that sand extraction goes on all over the area I have often thought that it was just fine sand/gravel that was used. This light colour made driving at night on small unlit country roads easy by comparison with dark, light absorbing black tarmac, and I have always thought it a shame when the practice ceased. I am sure I can recall a few roads in other areas that seemed almost to be white, (especially at night), and certainly a very light grey at most.

 

Izzy

[Regularity]

4 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Yes.

 

Justin is, of course, active on here, so perhaps he may wish to comment at some stage.

 

I’m not worried about Justin writing an article about how to get the best out of his cleverly designed etchings, just wondering about undeclared interests, which is an editorial decision.

 

I thought I was fairly clear about that.

[cctransuk]

5 hours ago, Regularity said:

Am I correct in saying that Justin Newitt = Rumney Models?

Didn’t think the article made it totally clear that this was effectively a trade piece - albeit an extremely informative and interesting one by a small trader providing useful parts.

(Criticism is on the magazine, not the article nor the author. If I have missed something, apologies in advance.)

 

 

....... and ?

 

Even if it was effectively an advert; (which it wasn't); these niche products supplied by modellers / small traders are not in the same league as Hornby / Bachmann.

 

The availability of these products is to the benefit of us all, and I can't envisage any modeller taking the attitude that "I won't buy this excellent product because the producer wrote the article on how to use it" - but perhaps I'm the exception?

 

I think not - storm in a teacup, methinks!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Captain Kernow]

55 minutes ago, Regularity said:

I thought I was fairly clear about that.

Yes, you were, Simon.

 

Justin may still wish to make a comment, even if just about the weather!

 

[Barry Ten]

I only have my issue of MRJ 270 to go by but the photos look to be fairly standard MRJ style to my eye, which is to say quite pale and de-saturated (if that's the right word) but not weirdly so. Personally I prefer MRJ's style to the psychedelic mind-trip colours used in some other mags. In any case the colour pics of Black Lion Crossing and Faringdon hit the spot for me.

[corneliuslundie]

I agree with Barry. I don't have television so my comment is based on what I see of others, but there seems to be a general tendency to have the images far too saturated with very bright colours nothing like the real world. I wonder if this affects people's perception of photographs in magazines. Not that the colours in the black Lion Crossing and Faringdon articles are particularly muted anyway.

More to the point, does anyone have any photos of villages in the North East Wales area in the period modelled? Then we could judge the model against the prototype rather than against our ideas of what the prototype should be. Looking out the window on this bright sunny day, the road outside the house is a pretty light grey when seen in the sun, though not as light as in the BLC photos. Bu much darker in the shadows.

Still very nice modelling.

One thing which interests me is the chapel with a date of 1811 on the facade. It must have been there before the local industry started. The very large chapels in South Wales almost all date from the end of the century and the beginning of the 20th when there was competition between denominations to have the grandest building - as a result of which many were never very full. But knowing how thorough Geoff is with his research I am sure it is based on a local prototype.

Jonathan

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

One thing which interests me is the chapel with a date of 1811 on the facade. It must have been there before the local industry started.

 

Was the presence of Nonconformity a cause or an effect of industrialisation? Discuss.

[corneliuslundie]

I should have looked before I posted. I currently have a book out of the library about the history of Powys. It is evident looking at the maps that by the end of the eighteenth century there were numerous nonconformist chapels in he north of the county, often in rural areas.

And I was a little unfair also about the early 20th century examples. Many were a direct result of the 1904 revival, with chapels rebuilt to cope with much increased congregations. It was really only later that the competition began, and by that time congregations were sometimes falling - occasionally due to changes in local employment opportunities such as ironworks closing.

As for the cause and effect issue, I am really not qualified to comment. Nonconformism was strong early in Wales for a number of reasons.

Looking at the bigger picture, of course the Quakers were at the forefront of industrial development, including the railways, and the nonconformists were early into technical education.

Anyway, this is perhaps straying too far from the topic of the thread.

So just a comment on those coal loads. I agree that they look good but I am not certain that he has used the appropriate categories which would be related to the end uses of the coal - steam coal for shipping, bunkering and export; gas coal for gas works; house coal for domestic use; anthracite for specialist uses etc. And house coal in particular would have come in a variety of sizes. Unfortunately, i never took any interest in the coal delivered to the house where we lived until i was 11. There have been a few bits in print, including in the various private owner wagon books, but I am still  not at all clear. and you cannot even define it by colliery as some collieries mined different seams with different types of coal either at the same time or at different periods. But his suggestions make a very good start to the practical issue of producing loads, as opposed to the finer points of the coal industry.

Jonathan

[John_Hughes]

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with 20th Century printing technology, at least in terms of the quality of reproduction that it can offer, and I have several gorgeous books printed fifty or more years ago to prove it. (That's not to say that it doesn’t come with other disadvantages, but then so does every other technology).

 

Colour reproduction really is in the eye of the beholder; as someone who spent a happy hour or two drooling over Black Lion Crossing in Manchester a couple of years ago, I can only say that the pictures looked fine to me. I don’t think that I’ve seen Farringdon in the flesh, so can’t comment.

 

Proof-reading, as always, is something else; who but MRJ would make the same GWR vehicle simultaneously a Bloater and a Boater? But then I spend a lot of my life proof-reading stuff, and it somehow gets to me.

[Barry Ten]

 

3 hours ago, John_Hughes said:

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with 20th Century printing technology, at least in terms of the quality of reproduction that it can offer, and I have several gorgeous books printed fifty or more years ago to prove it. (That's not to say that it doesn’t come with other disadvantages, but then so does every other technology).

 

Colour reproduction really is in the eye of the beholder; as someone who spent a happy hour or two drooling over Black Lion Crossing in Manchester a couple of years ago, I can only say that the pictures looked fine to me. I don’t think that I’ve seen Farringdon in the flesh, so can’t comment.

 

 

 

 

I've seen Faringdon a couple  of times and it certainly looks as good in the flesh as it does in MRJ and the Wild Swan books. I think it would benefit from a backscene but other than that there's nothing to fault, and it is all very muted and toned-down, to excellent effect. I haven't read all of the article yet but I presume it's been decided to fix the period of the layout in the BR era from now on, unless the buildings can stand in as 1930s properties as well.

[Torper]

I think there's a difference between muted and overexposed.  In fact, the white that I see in both Black Lion articles is anything but muted - it's bright white.  In Issue 269, for example, look at page 42 - the road might as well be snow covered.  Contrast that with pages 46 and 47 where the road is shown, I'm sure correctly, as light grey and the colours generally, at least to my eyes, appear more realistic.  Page 52 is particlarly noticeable - bright white road leading onto the bridge, light grey road fading away into the distance.  Issue 270 is perhaps a little better, although page 86 is particularly affected, with tracks apparently running through snow in the top picture and brilliant white canal side sand in the bottom, and in  many pictures the grey in what I believe should be light grey is hardly noticeable.  And I'm sure that some of the stunning colours in the retaining wall on page 82 have been lost.

 

And Faringdon?  Well, take a look at the road on page 112 or 116.  Is it just a coincidence that two excellent layouts appearing the same issue happen to have been built with white roads?

 

Now many of you apparantly feel that that is perfectly acceptable but I have to say that if I'd managed to build a layout as excellent as either of these I'd be a bit disappointed with the way some of these pictures have turned out.

 

DT

Edited April 23, 2019 by Torper

[Barry Ten]

I've had a look at the pictures you mention and I get what you mean. It didn't really jump out at me as being out of the ordinary for MRJ until now but those whites are indeed quite noticeable.

[Jub45565]

On 21/04/2019 at 18:50, Regularity said:

I’m not worried about Justin writing an article about how to get the best out of his cleverly designed etchings, just wondering about undeclared interests, which is an editorial decision.

 

I thought I was fairly clear about that.

 

While it may not have been headlined at the start of the article, it is pretty clear reading it. For example photo captions which say 'My solution to this...' and other descriptions of his design decisions, so it is hardly being kept a secret.

 

Anyway, the issue looks a good one - must finish reading it properly!

[Compound2632]

Anyway quite a few of the regular contributors are more-or-less commercial modellers, likewise the Portfolio photos often feature models built to commission. But are we really complaining? What we go to the magazine for is modelling of the highest quality.

[Bernard Lamb]

White roads?

Take a look at Pendon to see what white roads really look like.

In The Vale they are supposed to represent bare chalk.

Some of the photos do look a bit pale but I prefer that to the mucky brown tones of some years ago.

Just another of those little quirks that make MRJ what it is.

I do tend to prefer the natural depth of field of focus visible in some shots in MRJ. I find they look natural when simulating the results of a miniature camera with a standard lens, over the techniques used by say Andy York (multiple images ) or Tony wright (very small f stop). Those two experts give results that look more like posed photographs taken on larger format cameras.

Before I get shouted down I can understand the point that it is a requirement for larger reproductions. Artistic results against technical expertise? There is surely a place for both.

MRJ the mag that dares to be different.

Bernard

 

 

 

 

[TheQ]

Yep white chalk roads were quite common, there are pictures of troops marching past my grandfathers house in Wiltshire on the chalk roads.  I remember when they were dug up for services there were no foundations to the tarmac, the tarmac had been laid straight onto the chalk. The "green lanes" in the area are still mostly chalk.

 

The MSWJR tried chalk as ballast in it's earliest days..

 

(PS I'm glad I didn't have to bull my boots after marching on those roads on a rainy day..)

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by TheQ

[Barry Ten]

2 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

 

I do tend to prefer the natural depth of field of focus visible in some shots in MRJ. I find they look natural when simulating the results of a miniature camera with a standard lens, over the techniques used by say Andy York (multiple images ) or Tony wright (very small f stop). Those two experts give results that look more like posed photographs taken on larger format cameras.

 

Bernard

 

 

 

 

 

I normally put my camera on a tripod, set it to aperture priority  and dial in the highest f-number for maximum depth of field, but I took this shot below with the camera in auto mode and hand-held. There's much less depth of field but compared to my usual shots the softness made it look a bit MRJ-like, I thought, and I liked it!

 

[Bernard Lamb]

10 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

I normally put my camera on a tripod, set it to aperture priority  and dial in the highest f-number for maximum depth of field, but I took this shot below with the camera in auto mode and hand-held. There's much less depth of field but compared to my usual shots the softness made it look a bit MRJ-like, I thought, and I liked it!

 

 

It looks like the sort of photo that a person with a cheapish camera would have taken around the time depicted by the model.

Given an allowance for the more correct colour balance than the film of the time would have had.

The area below the footplate especially the driving wheels is quite dark. As it would be in a photo of that time with a limited exposure range.

Realistic in terms of both modelling and photography.

Contrast this with a typical BRM shot where all the details can be clearly seen.

I like the shot, but for main stream publication a more tweaked version will,  it seems, appeal to a wider audience.

Bernard

 

[corneliuslundie]

And that photo represents more accurately what we actually see, though we are often not aware of the background being out of focus because we are concentrating on the foreground. and our eyes also scan without our realising it, so may well adjust focus to a certain extent. The Andy York technique certainly produces ultra sharp photos with enormous depth of field but they often seem to me to be rather artificial.

However, I don't think this affects colour very much and I agree that the roads in both articles are very light. What would be interesting would be to discover from the owners of the models what they were trying to represent and whether the photos actually represent it well, Naturally, we usually try to model bright sunny days even if they are in the minority for much of the year, so roads will look light rather than dark. Both layouts represent relatively recent days so we are not talking about nineteenth century roads, and certainly not wet roads as it never rains in our imaginary worlds - well, only on a few very specialised layouts.

Jonathan