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Class 69 - Return of the body snatchers?


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10 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

But the vertical WIPAC lights look a bit weird to me. Just feel it would look better horizontally

I reckon they'd blend in better if they were painted yellow, would at least look more 56 like when they're lit then.

I know it's only paint, but for trying to recreate what went before it really doesn't stand up that nicely. On a 66 no one can argue really as there never were any in BR service, but to mimic the 56 livery, but not really look right it feels something is missing. The black round the windows is the biggest area I can note when compared to a large logo 56 with a fabricated cab, and the positioning of the bodyside numbers.
Yes this was a repaint by EWS, but it gets the character of the original livery spot on, which sort of proves my point!
https://flic.kr/p/bA1CVC

 

I'll let them off the BR arrow, as there's a grill where it should be!

 

Jo

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33 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:


Not bad, I quite like it. But the vertical WIPAC lights look a bit weird to me. Just feel it would look better horizontally.

I agree, it would have had a bit of a class 60 look about it which I think is a much better looking loco than the 69 (or 56 for that matter), I suspect there is a reason why they have been installed vertically, possibly due to the layout of the cab framing?

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1 hour ago, Rivercider said:

By the time the first ten are outshopped I wonder how many different liveries there might be?

 

Hmm..

large logo was the 2nd class 56 livery.. this is 69002.

I wonder..

69001 Blue

69002 Large logo blue

69003 Railfreight

69004 Redstripe railfreight

69005 Railfreight Coal

69006 Railfreight Aggregates

69007 Railfreight Petroleum

69008 Railfreight Metals

69009 Dutch

69010 GBRF 

 

?

 

certainly would justify a new OO tooling then !

 

I was thinking today Dutch on a class 66 would make sense given the amount of M&E work GBRF does on the network.

Edited by adb968008
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2 hours ago, big jim said:

…lack of front handrail below the window.

 

also I think they should have put 2 lamp brackets on…

There might be more bits to fit? - they seem to imply that in the write-up on those photos: “further completion works”

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1 hour ago, 37114 said:

I agree, it would have had a bit of a class 60 look about it which I think is a much better looking loco than the 69 (or 56 for that matter), I suspect there is a reason why they have been installed vertically, possibly due to the layout of the cab framing?

Apparently the front end was deliberately styled to still look like a 56. Think it was an article in one of the mags, certainly came from GBRf.

 

Jo

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30 minutes ago, Steadfast said:

Apparently the front end was deliberately styled to still look like a 56. Think it was an article in one of the mags, certainly came from GBRf.

 

Jo

 

So the front end stays very weak and in a frontal smash you are trapped in by the EMD pedestal! 

Why on earth they have fitted these is beyond me, they predate the 56 by quite a few years and brush managed to convert a 47 controller to an 8 notch affair so I'm sure the same could have done the same with a 56 controller 

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7 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

So the front end stays very weak and in a frontal smash you are trapped in by the EMD pedestal! 

Why on earth they have fitted these is beyond me, they predate the 56 by quite a few years and brush managed to convert a 47 controller to an 8 notch affair so I'm sure the same could have done the same with a 56 controller 

They wanted the same controls as the 66’s for uniform training they said in the video during testing. 
Ultimately they aren’t trying to replicate a 56 with the livery, just pay homage to it because the boss likes the idea. 
It’s amusing that people are reviewing it like a model of a 56 :) 

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EMD pedestals are also plentiful and available off the shelf/ Arizona scrapline, which is probably quite important on a component level for a small class.

 

Comparisons with 56s are understandable, but also pointless, since these are not 56s, they simply use some heavy metal that was previously part of a 56 to make them cheaper to create.

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14 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

EMD pedestals are also plentiful and available off the shelf/ Arizona scrapline, which is probably quite important on a component level for a small class.

 

Comparisons with 56s are understandable, but also pointless, since these are not 56s, they simply use some heavy metal that was previously part of a 56 to make them cheaper to create.

 

I hear what you say but unfortunately the cab was designed for a 47/56 controller not an EMD pedestal so I imagine quite uncomfortable to drive.

And having seen on multiple occasions how these cabs stand up in an accident i wouldn't want that next to me in an emergency 

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31 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

They wanted the same controls as the 66’s for uniform training they said in the video during testing. 
Ultimately they aren’t trying to replicate a 56 with the livery, just pay homage to it because the boss likes the idea. 
It’s amusing that people are reviewing it like a model of a 56 :) 

 

Sad this is the boss positively hates 56s .

If they had to do this to a old loco I'm sure a 58 would have been a better  doner

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33 minutes ago, big jim said:


they are at the rear of the coupling behind the ‘grid’ 

 

That grid used to to protect the aircon unit,  which wasn't the most reliable piece of kit 

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On 10/03/2021 at 14:34, woodenhead said:

Plenty preserved and West Coast have a few spares donors - give them the guts, take the shells down to Stoke or Loughborough and let some engineers loose on them.

Sadly that ain’t gonna happen at Brush Wabtec Lboro now, Stoke hopefully it will.

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Saw one of these this morning sandwiched between two GBRF 66s, crossed over the road as we were going to pick up our veg from the greengrocer, it was travelling towards Reading from the Mortimer direction. Full marks to Head Gardener who noticed the number 69 - I didn't believe her at first until I found this, she is now fully vindicated! Nice to see a bit of shiny new rail blue paint.

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When this Class 69 program is the success it deserves to be, what would be the maximum number of 56s that could be converted to 69s? Assuming all were available, which I doubt they would be.
 

Sadly over the years I kinda lost track of things so I am struggling to work out exactly how many Class 56s still physically exist today. Is there an up to date site someone could kindly recommend?
Everything I have search through this morning has relatively out of date info judging by the age of the photos etc.

IIRC there were a few that did the main line / preservation/ main line Hokey Cokey. Then small numbers used by various short lived main line organisations, the Floyd expat etc. What happened bunch used ‘in foreign part’ by Fertis etc all those years ago? Did they all make it back?

 

The weird thing is that apart from Class 66s, the UK now appears to be doing a sort of ‘Modernisation Plan 2’ in that we have loads of relatively small fleets of non standard locos. Or perhaps the 66s are going to be the last class built that will number in the hundreds, most other classes barely reach mid 30s, if that. Perhaps that’s all the UK will ever need once battery powered road haulage has arrived.....:O

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7 hours ago, Grizz said:

When this Class 69 program is the success it deserves to be, what would be the maximum number of 56s that could be converted to 69s? Assuming all were available, which I doubt they would be.
 

Sadly over the years I kinda lost track of things so I am struggling to work out exactly how many Class 56s still physically exist today. Is there an up to date site someone could kindly recommend?
Everything I have search through this morning has relatively out of date info judging by the age of the photos etc.

IIRC there were a few that did the main line / preservation/ main line Hokey Cokey. Then small numbers used by various short lived main line organisations, the Floyd expat etc. What happened bunch used ‘in foreign part’ by Fertis etc all those years ago? Did they all make it back?

 

The weird thing is that apart from Class 66s, the UK now appears to be doing a sort of ‘Modernisation Plan 2’ in that we have loads of relatively small fleets of non standard locos. Or perhaps the 66s are going to be the last class built that will number in the hundreds, most other classes barely reach mid 30s, if that. Perhaps that’s all the UK will ever need once battery powered road haulage has arrived.....:O

There are 35 left of which 8 are allocated to become 69003-69010. Of the remaining 27, 56106 is missing a cab at one end, 56303 has been accident damaged and 3 are in Hungary (56101,115,117). That leaves you 22 that are in use (Colas/DCR), Preserved or stored.

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14 hours ago, Grizz said:

The weird thing is that apart from Class 66s, the UK now appears to be doing a sort of ‘Modernisation Plan 2’ in that we have loads of relatively small fleets of non standard locos. Or perhaps the 66s are going to be the last class built that will number in the hundreds, most other classes barely reach mid 30s, if that. Perhaps that’s all the UK will ever need once battery powered road haulage has arrived.....:O

 

But the Class 69 is essentially a Class 66 in a Class 56 body, and is being done precisely to avoid having to come up with a new small fleet of unique locos.

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14 hours ago, Grizz said:

 

The weird thing is that apart from Class 66s, the UK now appears to be doing a sort of ‘Modernisation Plan 2’ in that we have loads of relatively small fleets of non standard locos.

 

Not really

 

If it was a modernisation plan Mk2 then GBRF would have already bought up every single 56 they could find and started rebuilding them before the 'prototype' rebuilds have had a chance to prove their worth.

 

If anything the exsistance of these small fleets is an example of what should have happened under the original BR modernisation plan - extensively test and only order more if (i) the prototypes are really good plus (ii) the traffic is there for them to haul (as opposed to being decimated by road transport)

 

 

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4 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Not really

 

If it was a modernisation plan Mk2 then GBRF would have already bought up every single 56 they could find and started rebuilding them before the 'prototype' rebuilds have had a chance to prove their worth.

 

If anything the exsistance of these small fleets is an example of what should have happened under the original BR modernisation plan - extensively test and only order more if (i) the prototypes are really good plus (ii) the traffic is there for them to haul (as opposed to being decimated by road transport)

 

 

The last bit does not really apply in the current railway set up though. Class 66 apart all the freight operators have gone in slightly different directions. If one modern class did prove to be far superior then not all current operators would be able to make use of it.

 

cheers

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Sorry I probably should have clarified my Modernisation 2 comments better. 
I do understand that the 69 is in essence a 66, using 66 power unit and control systems etc however bogies, body and other equipment obviously isn’t. Using the gen kindly supplied by 37114, as there are only ever 28 class 56s in the UK plus the two 69s already built, this gives a total class of 30 max (a relatively small number of locos).
 

It is fantastic that the uk rail freight companies are re-engineering and upgrading older designs, we should have done it before, instead of always going back to the drawing board every time. A good example of re-engineering good equipment is the EMD GP and SD series of locos in the US, they took a relatively successful design and upgraded it, where possible using standard components. But they had the luxury of large fleets to start with. 
 

I should apologise for not including my most important point in my original Modernisation 2 post, which wasn’t an accurate analogy in the first place. I should confess at this point that this was mainly due to me tackling some particularly volatile home made ‘Weapons Grade’ - Ginger, Vanilla and Chilli Vodka......and all that this implies....

 

My main point was I guess why wait until a previous ly large class has been reduced to a handful and then pick 56s to convert, leaving a max class of only 30 potential class 69s? Why not pick the 60s, with a much larger remaining class of potential candidates. Of course I am not a mechanical engineer, there may well be a perfectly good reason why a class of 100 locos have pretty much be allowed to rot out their days, with little or no regard to re-engineering or future use.

To look at just the class 73s, there are two different re-engineered types of 73/9....and only a handful of each.

 

Sorry for rambling, the effects of the bath tub vodka haven’t worn off yet, have a good one all...now where did I put that bacon sandwich.....

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