Dunnington, Derwent Valley Light Railway.

[john new]

56 minutes ago, J25 said:

Looking at the photographs of DVLR Platforms, the brick piers supported the cross members, so the reference to 1' 1 1/2" x 1' 10" timbers must refer to these cross-members. The dimensions of these timbers seem a little large for the job, but 1' 1 1/2" depth would seem to match up with the photos. The top line of bricks on the piers were laid  on their side The cross member and planking would account for 1' 4 1/2 inches, so the brick piers would be 1' 7" from rail level, about 5 brick courses to rail level and maybe an extra two courses to ground level.

 

Another traffic that is mentioned in the Stockwell book is scrap from Clancey's scrapyard at Murton. He makes mention of an occasion when Clancey's sent out 15 wagons of scrap a week during a steel shortage, but give no dates, but I do recall seeing a train of 16T mineral wagons loaded arriving at Layerthorpe. This would have been in the early seventies, but I can recall nothing else of the occasion. The loop at Murton seemed to be used solely for storage of Tankers, so any loaded wagons of scrap would have to have been hauled to Dunnington for running around.

 

Hopefully not too far off topic - For anyone with a good memory of 1970s York did Clancy's also have the small non-rail connected scrapyard in the V between the Foss lslands Branch and the Scarborough line at Burton Lane junction? One of the lads from there was a regular in the pub I frequented back then but for the life of me forty years plus on, I cannot remember either his name or that of the yard.

Edited June 17, 2019 by john new

[Signaller69]

39 minutes ago, john new said:

 

Hopefully not too far off topic - For anyone with a good memory of 1970s York did Clancy's also have the small non-rail connected scrapyard in the V between the Foss lslands Branch and the Scarborough line at Burton Lane junction? One of the lads from there was a regular in the pub I frequented back then but for the life of me forty years plus on, I cannot remember either his name or that of the yard.

Not something I'm familiar with sorry, I did live in York in the mid 90s for 3 years but too late to have seen either the DVLR or Foss Islands branch in action. David (J25) may be able to help possibly?

[J25]

The yard you refer to is still there-It is called Dennings. Clanceys had the large yard at Murton and a small one at St. Andrewgate in York City centre.

[Signaller69]

1 hour ago, J25 said:

 

Another traffic that is mentioned in the Stockwell book is scrap from Clancey's scrapyard.... The loop at Murton seemed to be used solely for storage of Tankers, so any loaded wagons of scrap would have to have been hauled to Dunnington for running around.

 

Great, another source of traffic to represent, all adds to the variety.

 

I'm stuck for how to represent Sugar Beet currently, not being aware of any loose commercial products. I know cast wagon loads are available but these are designed to fit 16t mineral wagons, rather than the lower LNER design steel opens which I plan to use. One scenery supplier suggested using black peppercorns, but they are a little coarse for 4mm scale.

[Signaller69]

The shell of the Tariff Shed has been knocked up now too. I will be kept busy making doors and windows for a while I think....

 

I have decided there is room at the front of the layout to include one of the small (Highlight I think) engineering sheds, which was right next to the running line by the crossover, which may act as a small view blocker to a degree.

[john new]

45 minutes ago, J25 said:

The yard you refer to is still there-It is called Dennings. Clanceys had the large yard at Murton and a small one at St. Andrewgate in York City centre.

Thank you. The prompt has triggered the brain, I am fairly sure it was called that then too.

[J25]

There is some here: https://www.modelscenerysupplies.co.uk/oo-scale-products/oo-gauge-scenic-details/oo-gauge-kits/OO-Trackside-Railway/truck-load-sugar-beet-oo-juweela

 

 

[south_tyne]

4 hours ago, J25 said:

There is some here: https://www.modelscenerysupplies.co.uk/oo-scale-products/oo-gauge-scenic-details/oo-gauge-kits/OO-Trackside-Railway/truck-load-sugar-beet-oo-juweela

 

 

 

Thanks, that's really useful. I know the Ten Commandments cast loads look very effective but, as Martyn says, they are obviously designed for 16t minerals - https://tencommandmentsmodels.co.uk/product/sugar-beet-load-standard/. 

 

14 hours ago, Signaller69 said:

I'm hoping the plan I have adopted will still allow good operating potential, with all the key elements of Dunnington represented.

 

 

It absolutely screams Dunnington and the DVR, so no need to worry on that score! 

[Signaller69]

10 hours ago, J25 said:

There is some here: https://www.modelscenerysupplies.co.uk/oo-scale-products/oo-gauge-scenic-details/oo-gauge-kits/OO-Trackside-Railway/truck-load-sugar-beet-oo-juweela

 

 

Brilliant, many thanks. Must have used the wrong terms in Google to miss that.

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by Signaller69
Edit: have ordered a couple of packs, noting they are small (20g - 'a small truckload'). Plan is to glue onto polystyrene or foam formers to make wagon loads.

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, Signaller69 said:

the wrong terms in Google

Ah yes, “Well, my dear, all I did was to enter ‘beautiful models’ into Google...”

[john new]

25 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Ah yes, “Well, my dear, all I did was to enter ‘beautiful models’ into Google...”

 

A bit like the example I used way back in the day when teaching the new clerical trainees at work - putting hot fruity tarts into Alta Vista will NOT get you a link to recipes for making pastry based dishes.

 

However, that was far too many of years back and when the internet was still young, these days they wouldn't need that basic training having grown up on-line and would be able to update me on the various social media trends.

Edited June 18, 2019 by john new

[south_tyne]

15 hours ago, john new said:

...Alta Vista...

 

Now that's a blast from the past!!!

 

Martyn - let us know how you get on with the sugar beet loads when they arrive. I'll be intrigued to see! 

[Signaller69]

The card shell of the Highlight shed at the front of the layout has now been produced, based on the few photos which show it. I'm intending this to have some open doors and a detailed interior with being at the front. All of the various building shells will have plasticard / Wills sheets, windows, doors and other details etc added as the mood suits, a bit at a time.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Signaller69

[Neil]

On 17/06/2019 at 19:52, J25 said:

..... Another traffic that is mentioned in the Stockwell book is scrap from Clancey's scrapyard at Murton. He makes mention of an occasion when Clancey's sent out 15 wagons of scrap a week during a steel shortage, but give no dates, but I do recall seeing a train of 16T mineral wagons loaded arriving at Layerthorpe. This would have been in the early seventies, but I can recall nothing else of the occasion. The loop at Murton seemed to be used solely for storage of Tankers, so any loaded wagons of scrap would have to have been hauled to Dunnington for running around.

 

The was a tale I was told many years ago about a load of scrap which arrived at Clancey's in 16T minerals. After some time BR enquired about when their wagons were going to be sent back only to be told 'oh we thought that they were to be scrapped too'.

[J25]

I have heard this one before, but probably on this forum. I have seen a couple of pictures of wagons loaded with scrap, one at Layerthorpe in the 1950s, and one at Skipwith in the mid-sixties, but I don't know how much they received in this way as opposed to the the wagons themselves being the scrap. I know that they scrapped some wagons when the line closed-they appear to have been cut up on what had been the running line where Murton station platform had been. They were possibly wagons that had been stored at Layerthorpe.

[hmrspaul]

On 17/06/2019 at 21:38, Signaller69 said:

 

 

I'm stuck for how to represent Sugar Beet currently, not being aware of any loose commercial products. I know cast wagon loads are available but these are designed to fit 16t mineral wagons, rather than the lower LNER design steel opens which I plan to use. One scenery supplier suggested using black peppercorns, but they are a little coarse for 4mm scale.

 

Safflower seed may be acceptable; they are sort of the shape of sugar beet. This has a photo although there are lots of pet shop suppliers that could do these. https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/152597132657?chn=ps&var=452025540442

 

Mind, I don't understand why you want to use open merchandise wagons, Mineral both wood and steel are what usually appears in photos of sugar beet works.

 

Paul

[Tappa]

For my sugar beet traffic I used sesame seeds suitably painted - I have a vague recollection of Geoff Kent mentioning them for one of his layouts. 

 

Jeff

[Signaller69]

Thanks for the replies folks, I'm always glad to get relevant anecdotes, both humourous and informative.

 

Paul, thanks for the seeds idea, I will investigate next time I'm near a pet store. Regarding the LNER designed Steel Opens (presumably the BR variants), these were certainly in use for train loads of Beet to British Sugar (York) c.1970 on the DVLR as photos taken at Dunnington around this time show in this book:

Unfortunately I have so far found no photos online to which I can link. Whether this was due to stock availability or if the lower sides made tipping from farm trailers easier I do not know.

 

Thanks,

Martyn.

[J25]

In the fifties and early sixties wooden bodied Mineral wagons and 16 tonners seem to have been used indiscriminately for beet traffic. The sides of these wagons did stand proud of the DVLR "High Wharves" and the high-sided goods wagons would have eased this, but could the change be due to more rigorous separation of wagons used for foodstuffs from those carrying coal?

[south_tyne]

2 hours ago, J25 said:

In the fifties and early sixties wooden bodied Mineral wagons and 16 tonners seem to have been used indiscriminately for beet traffic. The sides of these wagons did stand proud of the DVLR "High Wharves" and the high-sided goods wagons would have eased this, but could the change be due to more rigorous separation of wagons used for foodstuffs from those carrying coal?

 

I am certainly no expert, but it has always been my understanding that wagons were scrambled from anywhere and everywhere to deal with the annual sugar beet traffic. My knowledge is based on the Wissington Railway, rather than the DVR, but, at the former, this resulted resulted a wide variety of wooden-bodied and steel opens and 16t minerals being used into the 1960s. The season was short but intense hence wagons being begged, borrowed and stolen from far and wide. I wouldn't have thought there would have been a stringent distinction between open wagons for coal traffic and other uses - perfectly happy to be corrected though. As I said, I am certainly no expert at all. 

[john new]

On 20/06/2019 at 16:52, Tappa said:

For my sugar beet traffic I used sesame seeds suitably painted - I have a vague recollection of Geoff Kent mentioning them for one of his layouts. 

 

Jeff

Is there a problem with using natural fibres from damp/mould and insect activity eating it? Interested to read of user experiences.

 

My layouts often go out into the outside garage, unheated, so I probably won't risk it but I am still curious as use of food stuffs is occasionally propounded for scenery. There was a guy on the Wessex area for years (Sadly I think now passed on) using the handle "The tree man" and it was one of his regular suggestions.

[Tappa]

Hi John - I haven't had any problems and my layout lives in a shed, albeit an insulated and heated shed, in my garden. I suppose it depends on whether you do anything to the food stuff. In the case of when I used sesame seeds, they were glued down and made solid  with a 50/50 pva water mix (same as ballasting). They then got painted so were well and truly sealed. I've also used the 'forest in a box' to produce trees and had no problems.

 

Jeff

[J25]

i agree about the necessity to choose any wagons that were available, and I am also aware that at one time, at York at least, high pressure water was used to wagons( "Elfa guns" - reference to the same process at Bardney here: http://community.lincolnshire.gov.uk/thehistoryofbardneysugarfactory/section.asp?docId=73902

 

This would have cleaned both the beet and the wagons. I believe that there was also a problem with 16t mineral wagons relating to corrosion caused by wet coal. The post-Beeching railway  would have more wagons for the available traffic generally, so perhaps they were able to devote wagons specifically to beet traffic. I do not know the reason for the change, but all the DVLR photographs I have seen taken after 1969 have 13t featured steel opens on the sugar beet traffic, and the latest 16t mineral wagons photographed were 3 at the wharf at Wheldrake in 1967, but these were sheeted and may have contained potatoes.

[J25]

3 hours ago, Tappa said:

 

 

18 hours ago, south_tyne said:

 

I am certainly no expert, but it has always been my understanding that wagons were scrambled from anywhere and everywhere to deal with the annual sugar beet traffic. My knowledge is based on the Wissington Railway, rather than the DVR, but, at the former, this resulted resulted a wide variety of wooden-bodied and steel opens and 16t minerals being used into the 1960s. The season was short but intense hence wagons being begged, borrowed and stolen from far and wide. I wouldn't have thought there would have been a stringent distinction between open wagons for coal traffic and other uses - perfectly happy to be corrected though. As I said, I am certainly no expert at all. 

 

I agree about the necessity to choose any wagons that were available, and I am also aware that at one time, at York at least, high pressure water was used to wagons( "Elfa guns" - reference to the same process at Bardney here: http://community.lincolnshire.gov.uk/thehistoryofbardneysugarfactory/section.asp?docId=73902

 

This would have cleaned both the beet and the wagons. I believe that there was also a problem with 16t mineral wagons relating to corrosion caused by wet coal. The post-Beeching railway  would have more wagons for the available traffic generally, so perhaps they were able to devote wagons specifically to beet traffic. I do not know the reason for the change, but all the DVLR photographs I have seen taken after 1969 have 13t featured steel opens on the sugar beet traffic, and the latest 16t mineral wagons photographed were 3 at the wharf at Wheldrake in 1967, but these were sheeted and may have contained potatoes.

[Signaller69]

The "Highlight" shed is more or less complete, the base of the walls fit in slots in a base of foam board ; as it is at the front of the layout, 2 sliding doors are open so that the interior contents (grain handling equipment probably) will be visible. 

 

The grain siding is in the process of being bedded into the goods yard roadway, using DAS modelling clay (another experiment I wanted to try). The centre will be ballasted, with wooden crossings added where required. PVA was applied first to give a better seal, as per the photo, and a further skim of DAS will be needed in places before painting; previous experience has taught me to ensure it sits well below the top of the rail head! 

 

The DVLR crane has had some Archer rivet transfers and a base coat of paint applied, still needs numbers adding.