Hebden General Planning

[Earl Bathurst]

I am in the process of designing my layout and have a basic track plan. I have designed the baseboards which are being built currently.

I was going to use Peco track but it doesn't achieve the look or flow that i want for the track work. I have downloaded Templot and had a play about but not sure how i can draw the entire layout to scale (probably easier than i think). I want to know that the track flows and what pointwork to build.

 

Can anyone help?

 

Is there anyone who offers a service to draw this up if needed?

 

Thank you in advance

Scott

Edited April 11, 2019 by Earl Bathurst

[gordon s]

Please can you post a pic of your basic track plan, so we can see what's involved.

 

Are there slips and 3 way turnouts or is it limited to simple turnouts?

 

Templot can be quite straightforward to use once you understand the basics and there are many users on here and on the Templot forum http://85a.co.uk/forum/ who will be happy to share their knowledge with you.

 

[Ian Smeeton]

Wot 'e said.

 

I find it easiest to start at the middle, or most complex trackwork and work outwards, if that is any help.

 

There are others on here, far more experianced than I am who, when I have hit a problem, have stepped in, either with advice, or in one case drawing the bits I was struggling with.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[Earl Bathurst]

I will get a rough sketch drawn up this evening and post here for help. 

 

Regards

Scott

[Siberian Snooper]

I always start by getting the mainline in from end to end and then add the first turnout and position it, from there it varies, if that turnout is part of a crossover, then I use the  MAKE SIMPLE CROSSOVER option in tools or MAKE SPLIT in the same menu which side of the turnout depends on where the next turnout goes.

 

 

[Earl Bathurst]

I have done a rough sketch of what i was hoping to achieve the plan look crammed into one corner but i fully understand once drawn to a scale this will fill out more. I have tried to put this into Templot but not sure how to confirm length of the layout or get it to look right. The main base board widths are 2ft wide and the side boards going from the fiddle yard are 1ft wide. 

 

The sidings will come together once the main line and station is completed. I can plan the sidings as i go along. 

I want the scenic side to have a gentle curve if possible so i am happy to lose the straight track to achieve this. The straight track in the sketch was for illustration purpose.

The fiddle yard will use peco code 75 track and small points

 

Fiddle yard sketch:

 

Scenic side sketch:

 

 

[Harlequin]

Hi Earl,

If you are able to insert a triangular baseboard fillet inside the top left corner that would give your scenic side much more room to flow naturally.

You will probably need some off-scene crossovers to allow up trains to "terminate" and return on the down line, and vice versa. These crossovers ideally need to be beyond the storage loops (so the 1ft connecting boards would be the natural place).

You will be able to make your fiddle yard loops longer if you can start some of the pointwork on the curves. If you wanted to do that you might use more than just small radius points, which have straight sections that can make them difficult to use in generally curving layouts.

 

I'm sure this could all be done and made to flow nicely with standard Peco Streamline parts if you wanted.

 

Have a look at this:

 

 

Or this much bigger and more open design:

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

As Phil says, those 12" wide boards represent quite a constraint to getting some flowing curves. Is there any pressing reason why they can not be a bit wider?

 

It may also be easier to come up with a good solution if the platforms are moved a bit further to the right (near the centre of the 14' length).

[gordon s]

Hi Scott, Phil beat me to it, but the principles are the same. I'm as guilty as the next man of coming up with great plans on paper and it's not until you sit down with software that reflects the reality of the situation, do you realise that basic sketches break all the rules of geometry and a lot more thought is required to take an idea through to production.

 

Taking your plan, I've quickly laid out the boards to the dimensions you have provided.

 

 

The dark blue lines are 3' radius curves and you can see straight away that as Phil has suggested you will need corner fillets to handle the junctions between 2' and 1' wide boards.

 

Once you take two curves of 3' and an inset of 6" each side, you are left with a straight section of just 7' long. This is really important when you come to the fiddle yard as all the turnouts each end will take up most of the space you have left. As Phil suggests, you could use curved turnouts either end, but then it's likely you will have some pretty tight radii to the inner lines.

 

Your sketch shows the station on a nice gentle curve. I've tried to replicate that with another line on the plan and you can see just how much space that will take.

 

I think you have to be realistic with the space you have and may well have to compromise on some of the design parameters. This may involve radii of less than 3' and that may in turn mean smaller locos to handle tighter curves.

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by gordon s

[Earl Bathurst]

Thank you all. 

I can put fillets onto the corners. I am happy to sacrifice features as what i want isn't always possible.

 

I am open to suggestion from everyone

 

Scott

  

[gordon s]

Scott, if it were me I'd be looking to do something like this....

 

Here you have the two main lines. The right hand end is a 3' radius curve. The left hand end is slightly different as I have shortened the station section and added a transition curve that slowly tightens back to a 3' radius. It doesn't solve the fiddle yard issues, but at least is a starting point for your thoughts. Of course this moves the station away from the curve, but I suspect compromises will have to be made whichever way you go.

 

I'm going to have to duck out now for a while as I have some admin to sort out for golf matches tomorrow and Friday.

 

Good luck....

 

[Earl Bathurst]

Hi Gordon 

Thank you for the update.

 

I will use that and have a think. I don't mind that station isn't on a curve. I am very flexible to positioning of features on the layout.

 

Scott

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 hour ago, gordon s said:

Scott, if it were me I'd be looking to do something like this....

 

Here you have the two main lines. The right hand end is a 3' radius curve. The left hand end is slightly different as I have shortened the station section and added a transition curve that slowly tightens back to a 3' radius. It doesn't solve the fiddle yard issues, but at least is a starting point for your thoughts. Of course this moves the station away from the curve, but I suspect compromises will have to be made whichever way you go.

 

I'm going to have to duck out now for a while as I have some admin to sort out for golf matches tomorrow and Friday.

 

Good luck....

 

 

Very useful drawing there from Gordon. It shows that you can achieve the right effect either by putting in the "fillets" or by widening the narrow baseboards to 20". That may be an easier solution if you want to build in sections that can be taken apart.

 

If your scenics finish at the point Gordon has drawn the tracks to, there is plenty of space for a bit of pointwork on the narrow boards which will allow longer loops in the storage area.

[Harlequin]

Here's the baseboard layout as currently proposed in the room with door and window approximately positioned. I've shown the possible positions of fillets - we probably wouldn't want to go much deeper than those because of reach into the corners.

 

[Earl Bathurst]

Hi Phil 

That looks good. My mistake the way the plan is set up above the door is the left not the right like i mentioned before and the window will be on the right. Apologies 

[Harlequin]

Flipped the end walls over:

[Earl Bathurst]

Thank you Phil.  So features I want to have on the layout are an up and down station. Goods facilities and being able to shunt. 

Platform length 4 to 5ft long

Operation will be from centre well with a bsck scene against the walls. A pair of carriage sidings against tge back scene  would also be very handy.

 

The fiddle yard I would like to have as much storage as possible.

Thanks  for your help 

 

 

 

 

[Harlequin]

Hi Scott,

 

What minimum radii would you accept in the scenic area? Same question for non-scenic?

 

Are you thinking about any specific period or region? Are there any prototype stations or parts of railways that you'd like to get the feel of?

 

 

[Earl Bathurst]

For the scenic radius liketo go as big to the constraints if the baseboards. Fiddle yard I have no real issue about size. I wouldn't want to go to anything less than set track radius 3.

 

Period is eastern region 1950 until late 60s. Station building will be a mix. No prototype more freelance. I want the feel of a busy mainline with goods handling. The back scene will have a retaining wall with rows of terrace houses. With a bridge feeding over from the back scene houses to the platforms.  The position of the platforms I'm completely flexible on 

 

Scott 

[Stephen Freeman]

I think that you could ask the question on Templot club with advantage. If you decide on a professional job you really need to have a good idea of what you want, otherwise it will difficult to arrive at a satisfactory result ad cost more than it need. Basing something on a prototype gives the designer something to start from and will.probably be better in the long run

[Harlequin]

Hi Scott,

 

Just checking: The door does open out, doesn't it? That might seem like a daft question but you'd be surprised how often people forget to leave space for doors to open into the railway room.

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Harlequin

[Earl Bathurst]

Hi Phil

The size of the boards take into account the opening of the door. What i have done is taken the following off the boards incase it does potentially foul. The door is in a recess

[Harlequin]

Hi Scott,

So is the door in the bottom wall in my drawing? How deep is the recess (i.e. the depth from the face of the wall to the face of the door when it's closed)?

 

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by Harlequin

[S&DWatty]

Hello Scott, you could consider not showing the whole length of the station and make it part of the scenic break.  That way you can have the impression of a much larger station that has perhaps 2 or 3 coach lengths showing and the remainder behind the backscene.  I did this on my layout to gain more "open country" running length but with a large station to justify the express trains I wanted.  I used Bournemouth Central as my inspiration as it fits my modelling region and has the advantage of 2 additional, non-platformed through roads, thus making the modelled bit of the station also a natual 4-road start to the fiddle yard.

 

I also wanted somewhere for the trains to "go to" rather than round and round, so I added a country terminus (based on Swanage but using generic LSWR building scratch-built from card).  This allows mainline running on the "roundy-roundy" whislt local trains can arrive and depart to and from the mainline station from the branch.  It adds a lot of play value, especially when you add working signals.

 

 

 

Just some ideas.

 

dave

[Earl Bathurst]

49 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Hi Scott,

So is the door in the bottom wall in my drawing? How deep is the recess (i.e. the depth from the face of the wall to the face of the door when it's closed)?

 

 

Hi Phil

The door is in the bottom corner. I'm currently not at home to check dimensions. The recess and modification to the baseboard allow the door to open fully and not affect the door opening and closing. I have triple checked this

 

Regards

Scott