Hebden General Planning

[Stephen Freeman]

On 10/04/2019 at 08:26, Earl Bathurst said:

I have done a rough sketch of what i was hoping to achieve the plan look crammed into one corner but i fully understand once drawn to a scale this will fill out more. I have tried to put this into Templot but not sure how to confirm length of the layout or get it to look right. The main base board widths are 2ft wide and the side boards going from the fiddle yard are 1ft wide. 

 

The sidings will come together once the main line and station is completed. I can plan the sidings as i go along. 

I want the scenic side to have a gentle curve if possible so i am happy to lose the straight track to achieve this. The straight track in the sketch was for illustration purpose.

The fiddle yard will use peco code 75 track and small points

 

Fiddle yard sketch:

 

Scenic side sketch:

 

 

Good Morning,

Templot has a facility to help design the baseboard areas under the main menu heading, "background" and there is a ruler facility under "utils".

 

I have recently designed or should I say re-designed a layout in Templot, with a similar size and door to cater for, though based on LSWR practice, originally drawn by Iain Rice but for a slightly  larger space. First thoughts are that you may have to adopt a smaller fiddle yard arrangement but the station can be more comprehensive if you wish, depends on baseboard space.

[Harlequin]

16 minutes ago, Earl Bathurst said:

Hi Phil

The door is in the bottom corner. I'm currently not at home to check dimensions. The recess and modification to the baseboard allow the door to open fully and not affect the door opening and closing. I have triple checked this

 

Regards

Scott

This is what I'm worried about:

 

The red dashed line shows a standard 2ft 6in wide door and I've drawn your 12in * 16in cut out.

 

[Earl Bathurst]

Hi Phil the recess is deep enough to accomodate most of the door and the cut out section allows this to clear. I have tested this with a mock up of the baseboard and door. plus the room is also bigger than the layout. The room is 15x10ft and the layout is 14x 9ft

 

Scott

[Harlequin]

Is this more correct?

 

I just want to understand all restrictions that might affect the plan. Is there anything else?

 

[Earl Bathurst]

Hi Phil 

That is spot on. No other restrictions

 

Scott

[martin_wynne]

Hi Scott,

 

???

 

When you are inside the room with the door shut, you will not be able to open it because you are standing in your own way?

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Earl Bathurst]

Hi Martin 

The layout is slightly smaller than the room allowing me space to open the door when i am inside. Plus i never close the door when i am in there.  

 

Scott

[Izzy]

Could I ask what the 12” around the outside will be used for? It’s not enough for access so I presume storage of some type? Just a bit puzzled you have fixed the baseboard shape and size before doing a track plan so please forgive the questions. Based on your first track drawings I would have done it rather differently, but then given the rather nice space wouldn’t we all......

 

Izzy

[Earl Bathurst]

It's approx 12 inches but like all very old houses the measurements  aren't perfect some areas are under the 12 inch plus there is storage in a few places.14x9 suited my needs

What would you have done differently Izzy? 

 

Scott

[Harlequin]

Hi Scott,

How about this for a basic station layout? This is just schematic, obviously.

 

I'm pretty sure I can curve that organically into the space available with 5ft long platforms and 4-5ft long goods sidings.

 

I'm not sure about the functionality of the carriage sidings. I know that a trap is needed at the left end of the goods loop but is not shown on this schematic. More features could be added later but adding stuff for the sake of it or just to use up baseboard space is a bad idea. Less is more. Probably the most valuable addition would be a fourth goods siding but it depends if there's room after the basic station is laid out.

 

BTW: I think the minimum radius for the mainlines in the scenic area will be 3ft with some of the goods lines being less and some of the crossovers being 28in (the inner radius of a Peco Streamline curved point).

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by Harlequin

[Zomboid]

Are 4-5 foot long platforms essential? Having trains longer than the platforms would not be unusual, and if you're modelling a wayside station then the expresses won't stop anyhow, so it doesn't matter if they'd fit. Cutting them down to 3 coach lengths (for the sake of argument) would give more space for the freight facilities, which I think provides more operational potential than longer platforms would.

[Earl Bathurst]

Hi Phil 

I like that. The schematic you have placed above it the kind of thing i was looking for. I think what Zomboid mentioned above is also valid that cutting down to 3 coach length train platforms is more in keeping with the idea of only small stopping trains stopping at Hebden general with the express trains whizzing through

 

Scott

[Izzy]

12 hours ago, Earl Bathurst said:

It's approx 12 inches but like all very old houses the measurements  aren't perfect some areas are under the 12 inch plus there is storage in a few places.14x9 suited my needs

What would you have done differently Izzy? 

 

Scott

 

I know exactly what you mean. I live in an old coal merchants property, so fireplaces in just about every room, which take up a lot of space but are part of the structural integrity, and not one floor, wall, or ceiling, which is true in any way. Lots of fun.......!

 

As as you already have the baseboards under construction and a basic plan probably not a good idea to question it further, and especially as Phil has come up with a really good station layout. Pretty much ideal I would think for what you want.

 

I would just question the position of the carriage sidings though. Think that perhaps they should be on the other side and coming off the goods loop. The reasoning is that if some passenger trains stop/start/reverse here then using the goods loop, (is that also a platform face?), seems more logical. Less impediment of mainlne services. But I do think platform length needs to be balanced against the general size of trains. Even 4-5 coach lengths are short for stations on mainlines as opposed to branches. 

 

Izzy

[Joseph_Pestell]

Scott,

 

Is it just a goods loop or a third platform?

 

With a 14' length to play with and a fairly simple set of pointwork, I don't think that you need to go as short as 3' for the platforms. 4'6" is probably about the right compromise.

[Earl Bathurst]

Hi Joseph 

Looks like a goods loop.

 

Scott

[Harlequin]

Yes, I imagine buildings against the platform rear and fencing along the rear edge.

 

Everyone has different ideas about platform lengths but it partly depends on how and whether it can fit sensibly. I think 5ft platforms can fit and still leave enough room for a very decent goods yard so I'm going with that at the moment. People will be able to see whether it works when I post the first draft design.

 

[Earl Bathurst]

Hi Phil

I was thinking buildings against rear platform edge with fencing. Looking forward to seeing the first draft now

Scott

[Harlequin]

Hi Scott and other contributors,

 

Here's what I've come up with so far:

 

• Hopefully curvy and flowing in the scenic area.
• Min radii: Scenic 3ft, Fiddle 2ft (just under in places). Should allow close-coupling.
• 4 goods sidings with long goods headshunt so you can shunt while traffic circulates on the main lines.
• Platforms 5ft+ so you can sensibly stop long passenger trains and smaller trains will look small in the station - as they should!
• 2 carriage sidings, around 4ft long in the position previously suggested mainly because there's space on the layout rather than operational reasons. This may need revision.
• The trickiest formation is where the goods loop crosses to the up main at I1 and J1. The main lines separate slightly to allow for the straight track of the single slip while the up main keeps on curving. That's the sort of thing you see on the real railways sometimes and it offers an opportunity to create an interesting feature between the tracks - maybe some rubbish, a bush, some infrastructure, whatever.
• There are some deliberate wiggles in the goods yard for interest and realism.
• The buildings and scenic features are just suggestions to give some atmosphere.
• 10 fiddle yard roads, the shortest just under 8 feet long.
• I haven't linked up the curved end of the fiddle yard yet because it's doing my head in!
• Peco Streamline parts: Red=Small, Orange=Medium, Purple=Large, Green=Large Y and Curved, LightBlue=Slips.

 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Harlequin

[Earl Bathurst]

Hi Phil

That looks great and ticks what i am looking for. 

I am tempted to say with the carriage siding to make it just one long siding instead of 2 short ones.

 

On the left hand side by the number 3 there is a brown shape. what does that represent?

 

Scott

[Harlequin]

Hi Scott,

 

Glad you like it! Yes the carriage sidings could be altered in various ways. The brown shape is the suggestion of a large building (warehouse or factory, perhaps). I put it there to hide the ends of the carriage sidings because they are uncomfortably close to the backscene. That suggests an alternative option: You could say that they are not carriage sidings but industrial sidings serving a factory.

 

Here's an updated version:

 

• Completed the curved end of the fiddle yard
• Added traps in the form of stub sidings at the trailing ends of the goods loop (A5) and carriage sidings (I1).
• Suggested a road overbridge where the main lines leave the scene at A6 - it's a cliché, I know.

 

BTW: The station layout is loosely inspired by Gainsborough station, 1939, when the goods sidings were still present.

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Harlequin

[Earl Bathurst]

Hi Phil

I understand your thinking about the sidings now and the warehouse. The sidings could be used for anything. 

When the base boards are delivered the end of the month i will add fillets.

 

Time to get ordering the pointwork 

 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

There should be a trap in the goods loop at H2 to protect the mains.

 

 

[Harlequin]

49 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

There should be a trap in the goods loop at H2 to protect the mains.

 

 

Not needed because the points to Goods 1 and 2 would lie that way normally so they act as the trap, right?

 

[martin_wynne]

23 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Not needed because the points to Goods 1 and 2 would lie that way normally so they act as the trap, right?

 

Hi Phil,

 

Prototypically yes. But on a shortened model, that will chop about 1ft-6in off the usable run-round length in the goods loop (assuming the trap is modelled working). Inserting a set of catch points as a trap nearer the slip gets you a longer effective loop.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[martin_wynne]

p.s. if modelling the traditional era, the short length between the siding turnout and the slip would give you somewhere to park the brake van while using the loop as a headshunt for the goods yard. But not if the turnout is acting as a trap. Likewise the spur at the other end of the loop is useful on occasions, if it made long enough.

 

Martin.