Farish birdcage coaches

[TomE]

 

 

42 minutes ago, Zunnan said:

They aren't a step change in quality, they follow the same path which has been the standard for a long time. Until these arrived the Maunsells were the most recently tooled South coast coaching stock...unless you're describing the Maunsells as low quality and old fashion priced, which they most certainly are not, they are contemporary and competitive.

 

My reference to a step change in quality had nothing to do with the Dapol Maunsell's, which I didn't even mention. It was a direct comparison to where N Gauge was 18 years ago (hence the comparative photo) and where it seems some N Gauge modelers still apparently wish it was. But since you bring up the Maunsells, whilst they appear to be a fine representation of the prototype I'd argue that the Birdcages are a level above again in terms of finesse of detail and standard of finish. To some people that matters, and I feel justifies the price Bachmann are asking when you look at the overall quality of the product.  

 

Tom.  

 

 

[Les1952]

7 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Farish do limited runs, Dapol churn out items to seemingly maximise return on investment.

 

I remember when when they did the final runs of the 45xx and Ivatts they were about £50 iirc.

 

What they put into the shops must sell otherwise there would be masses of unsold Hymeks, 45xx, Ivatts, M7s, Colletts and Gresleys.

 

 

 

Dapol do limited runs, too

 

Generally 300 per running number.

 

However I seem to recall that each version of the original maroon Gresley coach had 4 different running numbers...    George Smith reckoned that the first production run of each type needed to make enough to cover its setting up costs and provide a profit just in case there wasn't a second run.

 

Les

 

 

[Nile]

Bachmann have the same policy, they aim to recover the development costs from the first run of models.

[Tomsontour]

I've got mine for fourty pound a coach, do begrudge paying that, absolutely not. Sadly we want the quality we have to pay for it, it's how the hobby progresses and we get finer models. If you don't want to pay that's up to you. No one is forcing anyone to buy any item for thier model railway, its a hobby at the end of the day, just enjoy what you do, I for one cannot wait to get my hands on mine which should be arriving in a few days

 

All the best matt 

[Gareth Collier]

Bachmann have taken a big gamble offering RTR pre grouping coaches and they could take a serious hit if they don't sell well. The customer base for them has to be the smallest yet for any RTR coach. If you do fall in to this customer base is the cost really that high? If you wanted a 3 coach set of Birdcages how much would it have cost before Bachmann took the risk on your behalf? I've built numerous Worsley Works and Etched Pixels etched SECR coaches and if you added together the cost of materials and the man hours spent building and decorating them to the same standard the RTR cost is chicken feed.

Bottom line is no one is making anyone buy them. They are a stunning offering to a very small market, sure I'd have loved to have paid less but who'd have thought a few years back you could walk in to a model shop and buy a rake of RTR SECR liveried coaches.

[Ian Morgan]

For comparison, check out the price of some of the latest German N gauge coaches:

 

https://www.en.dm-toys.de/produktdetails/items/Fleischmann_862807.html

 

That is nearly £49 (GBP) each at today's exchange rate.

 

[Steven B]

Bachmann/Farish have clearly worked out that we'll pay £40+ for a coach. The new Mk2F's have RRPs of £42.95.

 

Personally I'm not convinced the prices are worth paying (by around £10-15 in my opinion). Dapol's Mk3s and Maunsell coaches feel much better value for money. When the Blue-Ribbon Farish Mk1 first arrived they were a bargin and a step up from what had gone before. I'm not convinced that I'll be trading in my Poole & early Chinese Mk2s for the latest versions.

 

Steven B.

 

 

[D9020 Nimbus]

3 hours ago, Ian Morgan said:

For comparison, check out the price of some of the latest German N gauge coaches:

 

https://www.en.dm-toys.de/produktdetails/items/Fleischmann_862807.html

 

That is nearly £49 (GBP) each at today's exchange rate.

 

 

But Fleischmann coaches will uncouple over ramps—every time—as they should; Bachmann coaches won't (unless these are different to all of the others). There's more to quality than just the detailing and decoration...

[Gareth Collier]

1 hour ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

 

But Fleischmann coaches will uncouple over ramps—every time—as they should; Bachmann coaches won't (unless these are different to all of the others). There's more to quality than just the detailing and decoration...

That's ok, I haven't got any ramps I want them to uncouple over

[Davexoc]

5 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

 

But Fleischmann coaches will uncouple over ramps—every time—as they should; Bachmann coaches won't (unless these are different to all of the others). There's more to quality than just the detailing and decoration...

Bit academic if you change to your own couplings of choice though....

[grahame]

9 hours ago, Steven B said:

Bachmann/Farish have clearly worked out that we'll pay £40+ for a coach. The new Mk2F's have RRPs of £42.95.

 

Personally I'm not convinced the prices are worth paying (by around £10-15 in my opinion). Dapol's Mk3s and Maunsell coaches feel much better value for money. 

 

 

I'm not so sure that is what they have 'worked out'. With a RRP of £42.95 I doubt we'll be paying £40+ for those Mk2Fs (after the lower usual initial discount). I'd rather assume that the prices are based on costs and the need to amortise the tooling rather than just what they think people will pay. 

 

If there are coaches a lot cheaper then it is only natural that many will consider that represents better value for money. And, of course, what is 'worth paying' is very much a personal thing. For those that can afford it and want some pre-grouping coaches or Mk2Fs I guess they'll snap them up. The issue is will there be enough of those customers?

 

G 

 

[NCB]

Tempting... how far did these coaches stray in Southern Railway days? Could they have got as far as the withered arm?

[Les1952]

On ‎23‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 17:50, Gareth Collier said:

That's ok, I haven't got any ramps I want them to uncouple over

 

Fleischmann coaches will also PROPEL at passenger train speed in full-length rakes round German radius 1 track (about 8.5 ins, slightly tighter than UK) without the faintest hint of a wobble- ideal for getting that roundy-roundy where UK purists say "you can't make a turn that tight"- OK if hidden. They also stay gangway to gangway close coupled round the curve. 

 

There's more to quality engineering than just how something looks.  Recent Farish coaches aren't always that happy being pulled round radius 2 and as for mixing types in a rake like the prototype (Eastern/North Eastern) did- forget it.

 

Les

[Les1952]

On ‎23‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 21:21, Davexoc said:

Bit academic if you change to your own couplings of choice though....

 

I assume you would use a different NEM coupling rather than destroy that expensive close coupling mechanism by fitting a hand-assembled brass coupling?  otherwise you are paying for something you don't intend to use....

 

 

Les

 

 

[Chris Higgs]

On 23/04/2019 at 13:46, Ian Morgan said:

For comparison, check out the price of some of the latest German N gauge coaches:

 

https://www.en.dm-toys.de/produktdetails/items/Fleischmann_862807.html

 

That is nearly £49 (GBP) each at today's exchange rate.

 

 

Well, you did pick one of the most expensive coaches in Fleischmann's range. in a double-decker  A typical new release of a single-decker is around the 38 Euro mark.  Which probably is about the same as what the Thompsons are listed as for pre-order, but well below the MK2Fs.

 

Not to mention today's Brexit-influenced exchange rate being historically very low. 

 

Chris

 

[Roy L S]

9 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

 

There's more to quality engineering than just how something looks.  Recent Farish coaches aren't always that happy being pulled round radius 2 and as for mixing types in a rake like the prototype (Eastern/North Eastern) did- forget it.

 

Les

Hi Les

 

I do not recognise the issues you refer to above with regards to Farish coaches, and in fact we have been here before. I have never had any major issues with Farish coaches being pulled round R1 never mind R2. OK they will not couple on such curves but then who would realistically expect them to? 

 

Further, I have had no problems coupling Farish Mk1s (or indeed the NGS Thompson BGs) with Dapol Gresleys. I am not quite sure why you have such issues - how well laid is your track?

 

It is good to share your experience and I am sure people appreciate that, but please do not pass these off as the norm because they really are not. If they were we would be reading about it here and in other Forums.

 

Regards

 

Roy

[queensquare]

32 minutes ago, Roy L S said:

Hi Les

 

I do not recognise the issues you refer to above with regards to Farish coaches, and in fact we have been here before. I have never had any major issues with Farish coaches being pulled round R1 never mind R2. OK they will not couple on such curves but then who would realistically expect them to? 

 

Further, I have had no problems coupling Farish Mk1s (or indeed the NGS Thompson BGs) with Dapol Gresleys. I am not quite sure why you have such issues - how well laid is your track?

 

It is good to share your experience and I am sure people appreciate that, but please do not pass these off as the norm because they really are not. If they were we would be reading about it here and in other Forums.

 

Regards

 

Roy

 

Fully agree, I suspect its poor track laying that's the issue and Les, why the need to shout (use capitals) in your posts.

 

I shall be removing the close coupling mechanism from the ends of my rake and fitting DG couplings. I will also be weathering them down, particularly the underframes, to bring out the superb detail there and turning down the wheels to 2FS standards.

 

What I find most disappointing is that this thread is simply going on and on about the price. Farish have produced accurate, finely detailed pre-group coaches in 2mm/N in three different liveries. The price is a bit more than we've seen before but pre-group Chatham stock is a niche market and sales are likely to reflect that. You can still buy a complete train for about the cost of a mainline loco. They are stunning models and as a professional model maker I can assure you that getting coaches anywhere approaching this quality built and painted would cost many times what Farish are asking. I really hope Farish do well with them and produce more for the pre-group modeler.

 

Here's my rake, minus the horrible Rapidos, on Tucking Mill on a very unlikely excursion from the south coast!

 

Jerry  

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by queensquare

[Gareth Collier]

10 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

Fleischmann coaches will also PROPEL at passenger train speed in full-length rakes round German radius 1 track (about 8.5 ins, slightly tighter than UK) without the faintest hint of a wobble- ideal for getting that roundy-roundy where UK purists say "you can't make a turn that tight"- OK if hidden. They also stay gangway to gangway close coupled round the curve. 

 

There's more to quality engineering than just how something looks.  Recent Farish coaches aren't always that happy being pulled round radius 2 and as for mixing types in a rake like the prototype (Eastern/North Eastern) did- forget it.

 

 

So? I have no interest in Fleischmann coaches and what they can or can't do and they're available to a completely different customer base.  I can't say I've had ay issues with Farish coaches failing to negotiate bends nor mixing manufacturers within a rake but then again I've always made sure my track laying is as good as I can get it. Where I've witnessed people mirroring your complaints the track laying has been awful and I guess the 'far superior' Fleischmann offerings would suffer similar issues.

Like I said no one is making anyone buy them. They are superb models of a prototype I'd never dreamt would be available RTR and are priced at a level I am happy to pay. 

[Les1952]

3 hours ago, Roy L S said:

 

Further, I have had no problems coupling Farish Mk1s (or indeed the NGS Thompson BGs) with Dapol Gresleys. I am not quite sure why you have such issues - how well laid is your track?

 

It is good to share your experience and I am sure people appreciate that, but please do not pass these off as the norm because they really are not. If they were we would be reading about it here and in other Forums.

 

Regards

 

Roy

 

The particular problem children seem to be the Mark 1 corridoor composites, which traditionally would be marshalled either side of a restaurant car.  Admittedly Dapol couplers tend to droop as the pockets get older, but that doesn't explain why the corridoor composites fail to stay coupled to FARISH restaurant cars (or any other Farish Mark 1 for that matter).  It was possibly a batch problem with the supplier, very likely one pour having an impurity.  I have solved the problem - I sold off the six offending composites (three pairs) and the trains now stay coupled together. Indeed on both my exhibition layouts it is VERY rare for a passenger train to split.

 

Farish nem couplings do tend to bow upwards as they get older, while Dapol ones droop.  Both are fixable, usually involving adding some Microsol with a cocktail stick to the tangs of the coupling to make it adhere to the box and restrict its movement.  

 

 

 

Les

 

[Crepello]

The Dapol non-magnetic buckeyes work nicely with the Birdcages--long at the brake ends, short at the other end and long on both ends of the composite.

[Mr chapman]

Patiently waiting for mine to arrive at my local shop. Been waiting years for them ! A couple more days wont hurt  

[Mr chapman]

Forgot to post, received them the other day. Stunning models. The pictures don't do them justice, anyone on the fence should grab a set before they sell out.

[08-362]

I find it strange that the OO ones are available separately, yet the N versions can only be bought as a set.

 

Has there been any official statement about whether they will be made available separately at some point in the future? I only need one of the brake coaches for my preservation era layout, so a full set is expensive and unnecessary for me

[Mr chapman]

12 hours ago, 08-362 said:

I find it strange that the OO ones are available separately, yet the N versions can only be bought as a set.

 

Has there been any official statement about whether they will be made available separately at some point in the future? I only need one of the brake coaches for my preservation era layout, so a full set is expensive and unnecessary for me

What livery are you looking at? 

[Stefen1988]

I like those Coaches, hope for Malachite Green with the 2020 Releases.