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Fell Diesel Livery information

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18 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

Which, if we are referring to the gearbox, is still with us, having ended up in the NRM's collection. I found it once in the reserve collection, where it was available to operate.

 

Jim

 

Does that mean that someone could restore the Fell, with a greater number of original parts than the Flying Scotsman? Or are we talking about the model...

Edited by Titan
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1 hour ago, jim.snowdon said:

Which, if we are referring to the gearbox, is still with us, having ended up in the NRM's collection. I found it once in the reserve collection, where it was available to operate.

 

Jim

 

 

Think its actually a working model of the gearbox Jim 

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Double post 

 

Edited by russ p

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21 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

 

Think its actually a working model of the gearbox Jim 

I was referring to the model, which is what I thought the earlier post was referring to.

 

Jim

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Sorry mate, misread it. 

It may be ok for a 15,in loco though 

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9 hours ago, Titan said:

 

Does that mean that someone could restore the Fell, with a greater number of original parts than the Flying Scotsman? Or are we talking about the model...

Someone could build a new Fell; I imagine examples of most of the mechanical bits can still be found, and a gearbox from the original still exists in apparently working condition.  

 

It is not for me to comment on the advisability of such an endeavour.  It’s no dafter than recreating a Pennsy T4. 

 

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So, the Fell never made it to large logo BR blue with full yellow ends, then?:D

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The old films are tremendous - I had never previously actually considered how it all worked - very ingenious.  But....four Paxmans....aaagh!  (From someone who once had to maintain some as generator engines on shops.  Awful things.

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Not sure how much difference the super chargers made to the paxmans as the the southern 11001 had a single paxman of the same type but don't think it was forced induction but was also 500bhp 

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A very educational film. I have to admit that I always supposed, based on its rather uncouth appearance, that the Fell was a mechanically primitive machine. 

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The appearance was clearly influenced by the Ivatt twins, which I consider to be very smart and stylish looking machines, and which were themselves very influenced by American practice.  The large square noses of the Fell are boxy and crude and do nothing for the look of the thing, but the mechanical layout demanded them.  


The Ivatt twins' styling influence can be seen in the Derby Peaks as well, classes 44/5/6, and in the 'standard' EE look from the Baby Deltics, 37s, and 40s, but with a more prominent nose.  The EE nose reached it's pug ugly peak of bulbousness in the Deltics and DP2.  None of these locos, with high noses, could be described as making the best possible advantage of the opportunity offered by diesel traction of improving driver visibility, and drivers of shorter stature had to crane their necks to see out properly, but they were a big advance on steam practice and on the single cabbed type 1 BTH and North British locos.  20s weren't so bad running cab first, but the centre cabbed Claytons and D95xx were less than exemplary in this respect, with noses blocking the driver's view of the shunters.  Don't know much about Claytons, but the D95xx featured driver's positions facing inwards at right angles to the direction of travel, great for conversation with the secondman, presumably mostly about where the **** they they had broken down or been pushed off the road by the troublesome trucks this time... a few hours duty on a D95xx usually resulted in a stiff neck as well as high blood pressure.

 

The 'second generation' diesels, 37 excepted, were much better as were the various electrics.  The best for all round visibility IMHO were the Westerns, but they could be like ovens when the sun was on the cab windows...  In terms of the hydraulics, the Hymeks were pretty good as well but the various Warships and Baby Warships were not so wonderful.  The decision to stipulate gangway nose doors in the modernisation plan locos was rooted in US multiple power unit practice, and seldom used here, but it's legacy can still be seen on 31s and 37s in service.  

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Yes, odd really that for a decade the LMS (=US) approach to loco front-end design triumphed over the Southern (= European), which directly followed EMU practice by putting the driver right up-front, with a very good view by the standards of the day, both on the Hornbys and the big diesels.

 

I wonder if drivers expressed fears about the consequences of a collision in the Southern design; they must have felt very exposed in comparison with having miles of boiler in front of them.

 

When I had a ride in a Deltic, I was amazed by how high-up the driving position was in comparison with the cromptons and EDs that I'd been in up until then, as well as how far from the front it felt ......... I think Landrover used to market the Range Rover as having a "command" driving position (snob-appeal if ever there was!), and the Deltic certainly felt commanding.

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As a driver I don't have a problem with a nose end in front of me and the protection it offers is more than worth the slightly restricted view 

I was luck to escape serious injury or worse in a 47 when part of a gate penetrated the cab into the driving desk

The seating arrangement in Clayton's is odd there are only two seats both at forward facing driving positions 

I had the pleasure of driving the clayton this year and if you wanted conversion with your secondman he had to stand up

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On 24/11/2019 at 19:25, slilley said:

There is this sound film, though I have way of knowing if the sound used is the real deal.

 

 

 

Incredible footage, thanks for posting Slilley!

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On ‎26‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 09:00, jim.snowdon said:

Which, if we are referring to the gearbox, is still with us, having ended up in the NRM's collection. I found it once in the reserve collection, where it was available to operate.

 

Not a great photo, but this is the one I think...

P1010055cr.jpg.89653b57498fec05026ed9ee6d58f8d4.jpg

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On 27/11/2019 at 08:14, Nearholmer said:

and the Deltic certainly felt commanding.

So did the Westerns; it was that height which conveyed that 'lord of all I survey' attitude...

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