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Bachmann 2 HAP


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12 minutes ago, Geep7 said:

That looks lovely in Blue & Grey. Very tempted, but i'll wait for Bachmann to do one in all Blue, as, unfortunately, the Blue & Grey is to late and the all green is too early my modelling time-frame.

 

I will be getting some blue-grey units, but I am fully with you on the need for an all blue model - several of those would also be purchased.

 

Roy

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On Robert Caroll's excellent website there's this picture of a pair of 2-HAPs on a Ramsgate service that's dated 15/1/1994.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/42641692562/in/album-72157629191176988/

 

Scroll through and there are other images of 2-HAPs on the SED at this time.

 

 

Edited by RFS
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49 minutes ago, 47423 said:

To answer my own question, the last 2 HAPs allocated to Ramsgate left in October 84.

 

According to the pictures on Robert Carroll's website, 2-HAPs were still working Ramsgate-Charing Cross services in 1993/4. So where would they have been allocated?

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10 minutes ago, RFS said:

 

According to the pictures on Robert Carroll's website, 2-HAPs were still working Ramsgate-Charing Cross services in 1993/4. So where would they have been allocated?

 

Quick Flickr search shows them with RE (Ramsgate) depot stickers at withdrawal.


Roy 

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54 minutes ago, RFS said:

 

According to the pictures on Robert Carroll's website, 2-HAPs were still working Ramsgate-Charing Cross services in 1993/4. So where would they have been allocated?

I am meaning when they were Blue/Grey in the 80's. Not when they returned in the early 90's in NSE. 

Edited by 47423
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Doing a bit of random (HAPhazard?) research in my notebooks and stuff, I've dug out some allocations from various spotters' books (RE=Ramsgate, BI=Brighton, WD=Wimbledon):

1978 RCTS

2-SAP 5901-50 WD

2-HAP 

6022/23 WD

6053-67 BI

6068-6173 RE

 

1980 RCTS

Same 2-SAPs, but pencilled in conversions back to 2-HAP with many transfers to BI

2-HAP

6022/23 BI

6053-66 BI (with 4 reallocations pencilled in to RE)

6067-6173 RE

 

1981 RCTS

no 2-SAPs

2-HAPs

6001-15 WD

6016-63 BI

6064-6173 RE

(but all with many pencilled reallocations)

 

1982 RCTS

6001-16 WD

6018-65 BI

6066-89 RE

6090-6105 WD

6106-73 RE

 

1983-84 Ian Allan/RCTS joint book

4-CAP

3201-13 BI

3301-11 BI (with 3309-11 pencilled in RE)

2-HAP

6002/07/08/11/13/16/19/22/23/24/25/26/29/34 WD

6044/47/49/51/61/62/63/64/65/70/72/75/77/78/80/87/89/90/91/92 RE

6096/97/98 WD

6100/02/03/05/08/11/12/13/16/17/18/19/25/26/33/39/41/46 RE

6147-73 RE (with a small number missing)

 

1986 Ian Allan

4-CAP

3201-13 RE

3301-11 RE

2-HAP

6011 RE (a single 2-HAP at Ramsgate? was that a mistake?)

6013/22/32 WD

6051/62/63/64/70/72/75/77/78/80/89/90/92/96/97/98 WD

6100/02/05/12/26/41 WD

 

 

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On the 4-CAPs and Ramsgate, Blood and Custard says

"Three ‘1957 type’ units were transferred to Ramsgate in October 1982 and the remainder followed in May 1984 being displaced by a cascade of stock following the introduction of the new Class 488 /489 stock on the Victoria to Gatwick Airport service."

"The displaced 4 CAP units allowed further asbestos contaminated 2 HAP units to be withdrawn for scrapping and the type [i.e. the 2-HAPs] were eliminated from South Eastern division workings by October 1984"

[from https://www.bloodandcustard.com/br-2hap.html]

 

And from my notebooks:

 

On 11/4/83, I noted a CX-Gillingham(-Ramsgate?) '62' service formed from 6159 6108 6117 6070 6119, of which 6159 and 6117 were in all-blue, the other three in blue+grey.

 

On 11/7/83, I noted 6153 still in all-blue in Medway

On 20/7/83, I photographed a 10-car HAP formation led by 6160 on a '62' CX-Gillingham(-Ramsgate?) service

On 5/8/83, I noted 6065 still in all-blue in Medway

In late Aug-early Sep 1983, in all-blue in Medway, 6065, 6109, 6116, 6117, 6153,  

On 15/9/83, photographed an up Dover Priory-Victoria stopper at Selling formed of 6064+6163

On 16/9/83, noted on services East of Maidstone E: 6165+6090+6171; 6087

Same day, 6159 was on Sheerness-Sittingbourne, and 6108 on an up service at Sittingbourne.

The Maidstone W services at this time were generally 4-EPB

28/9/1983, 6117 all-blue in Medway

 

20/10/83, I think my first Kent sighting of a 4-CAP, in a 2-HAP+4-CAP+4-EPB formation:

6172+3311+5017 on a '63' Cannon St-Gillingham(-Ramsgate?) service 

and 27/10/83 a similar formation on the same service:

3310+6047+5165

I noted 3310 with coaches 75363 / 61243 ('Guard') / 61266 ('Luggage') / 75386 (downgraded 1st class)

17/11/83, on the same service 4-CAP+3x2-HAP:

3311+6162+6163+6070

13/12/83, same service had a refurbished 4-CEP+4-CAP+2-HAP unidentifed, but noted as unusual.

 

13/12/83 travelled on 6167 from Petts Wood to Hither Green

16/12/83, I noted 6153 still in all-blue in Medway

 

Scrolling forward, first day of new timetable 14/5/84 in Medway, I went out for much of the day, and noted no 2-HAPs. I noted 4-CAP 3211 solo as a '62' (Ramsgate?-Gillingham-CX) and a side note that all the Brighton 4-CAPs had transferred to Ramsgate. 3206+3307 were on a '50' semi-fast Ramsgate-Victoria, and a '93' Gillingham stopper to Victoria was two 57xx 2-EPBs with 3302

After that, the 4-CAPs were regularly appearing singly and in pairs (8-car) on the '62' services through Medway, which I think by May 84 were once an hour through to Ramsgate and the other half hour only to Gillingham.

 

In 1985, I photographed a 4-CAP off the road at Rochester. Scroll down here:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60196-the-human-side-of-the-railway/page/13/

Edited by eastwestdivide
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There was some reason why 6022 and 6023 were not converted to 2-SAP as they are in the middle of that batch, but the reason is lost in the mists of time. Anyone remember perchance?

 

Edit: Should have searched first - they were non-standard, being fitted with tightlock couplers.

Edited by brushman47544
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On 07/09/2020 at 15:03, AY Mod said:

I have a review sample on my desk at the moment which normally means they're 5/6 weeks away from the shelves.

 

1.jpg

What number is on the headcode please? 

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84 is either Sheerness and Dover - good choice by Bachmann - or Charing Cross down the Greenwich to Gravesend and the Medway Valley Line to Paddock Wood. I don't think there were many of the latter trains in the blue-grey era. 

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57 minutes ago, steve1023 said:

According to SEMG 84 is also Waterloo - Pompey HBR via Cobham - Andy's image appears to have a depot sticker for WD. 

Waterloo to PMH via the New Line? Used only during engineers' works or disruption. PMH services were in the hands of Cigs or Veps by the time Haps got into blue/grey, I think. 

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No, I recall seeing the 2HAPs into Portsmouth from Waterloo into the late 80s although that would have been NSE days, then we only had units 4201/4301 - 4322, so it probably was reduced from earlier years, but it did happen. 

Edit:

IIRC at some point I think late 80s there was a 10HAP working on Saturday's only from Waterloo to Bournemouth. At this time I think all the units where WD allocated. 

Edited by steve1023
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On 08/09/2020 at 15:48, RFS said:

 

According to the pictures on Robert Carroll's website, 2-HAPs were still working Ramsgate-Charing Cross services in 1993/4. So where would they have been allocated?

The last few sets were actually working between Charing Cross/Cannon Street-Tunbridge Wells to provide 10-coach formations (Tunbridge Wells not being able to fit 12 coaches on the platforms of course). 4308/11 were two of the last sets in traffic, of course both preserved now.  

 

This photo caption has more info - allegedly they were reinstated after Christmas until March 95. https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5473081181/

 

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On 12/09/2020 at 20:57, steve1023 said:

No, I recall seeing the 2HAPs into Portsmouth from Waterloo into the late 80s although that would have been NSE days, then we only had units 4201/4301 - 4322, so it probably was reduced from earlier years, but it did happen. 

Edit:

IIRC at some point I think late 80s there was a 10HAP working on Saturday's only from Waterloo to Bournemouth. At this time I think all the units where WD allocated. 

 

That's not being disputed. 84 is WLOO-PHR via Cobham (i.e. the New Line), not the "normal" route direct via Worplesdon.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Has anybody seen the recent reviews of the Bachmann 2-Hap?

 

I have been looking forward to their release with two on order.

 

However....Please have a look at the full length grabrails for the guard compartment and driver's doors.  Attached photos compare the model to the restored unit.

 

These grabrails on the model are first, easily 5 times the diameter they should be, and second, quite noticably different from those on the 4CEP/2EPB/MLV/ 4TC models so will stand out in any multiple unit consist.

 

How could they do this???

 

I model southern electrics, and own and run every 4CEP/2EPB/MLV produced to date as well as 2 liveries of the 4TC, and am more than willing to support the development of new southern electric EMUs in oo, but this has me seriously considering cancelling my orders for 2-Haps.

 

This does not strike me as rivet counting.  This is a glaring error that will stand out from ten feet away!

 

1-68.jpg

20190809_112134.jpg

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HAP handrails are full length and different to EPB ?

at least on the pictures i’m looking at.

 

The class 205 has similar handrails, the trailer 1/2 of a 205 is the same as the trailer 1/2 of a HAP (The EPB brake being the other).

 

not sure what the issue is ?

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1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

HAP handrails are full length and different to EPB ?

at least on the pictures i’m looking at.

 

The class 205 has similar handrails, the trailer 1/2 of a 205 is the same as the trailer 1/2 of a HAP (The EPB brake being the other).

 

not sure what the issue is ?

I think he means the thickness of them not the length, they shouldn't look a pair of exhausts.

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2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

HAP handrails are full length and different to EPB ?

at least on the pictures i’m looking at.

 

The class 205 has similar handrails, the trailer 1/2 of a 205 is the same as the trailer 1/2 of a HAP (The EPB brake being the other).

 

not sure what the issue is ?

For me, I find that while the design concept is correct, they are significantly oversized.  Visually, they look like they are 3 prototypical inches in diameter.

 

Given the high quality of the bakance of the model, this seems like a step backwards as an 'improvement'.

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