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Rails announce SECR box van in OO


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On ‎04‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 21:42, Compound2632 said:

Pre-grouping goods wagon, lasting until BR freight stock grey and even with preserved examples, and at all periods more numerous and more widely dispersed than this SECR wagon?

 

Midland D362 / D363 16'6" 8 / 10 ton covered goods wagon:

 

1444855770_MidlandD363QuaintonRoad.JPG.beafe0b776a41654c2e0c97f9e608638.JPG

 

Quite a few went into Military service at home depots, which is I believe to provenance of this example at the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre, Quainton Road.

 

First examples built 1892.

 

 

Quite possible in the fullness of time, but Rails will have picked the SECR van for a number of reason, one of which may be that it had never been produced in either r-t-r or plastic kit form. Such wagon kits are relatively easy to build and paint and one has to be a bit of a duffer to make a mess of a simple box van.

 

The excellent Slater's kit for the Midland van has been around for decades and many potential buyers will already have built all they need. 

 

My guess is that what comes next from Rails will be something else with no "previous", followed by a re-run of the SECR van.

 

John

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2 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Quite possible in the fullness of time, but Rails will have picked the SECR van for a number of reason, one of which may be that it had never been produced in either r-t-r or plastic kit form. Such wagon kits are relatively easy to build and paint and one has to be a bit of a duffer to make a mess of a simple box van.

 

The excellent Slater's kit for the Midland van has been around for decades and many potential buyers will already have built all they need. 

 

 

Very true and that's where I am at myself. I was just scratching my head trying to think of a reasonably common item of goods rolling stock that could span 1890s - 1950s.

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5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Very true and that's where I am at myself. I was just scratching my head trying to think of a reasonably common item of goods rolling stock that could span 1890s - 1950s.

How about one of the 10' 6" wheelbase LNWR  L&Y vans?

 

Admittedly there used to be plastic kits for two or three variants using largely common tooling (I can't recall the maker MAJ) but they disappeared donkey's years ago. IIRC the moulds were acquired by ABS, but the kits never re-emerged.*

 

John

 

* Apparently they did (see later posts) but not for long.

Edited by Dunsignalling
Correction
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You may be thinking of LYR vans. I've only seen whitemetal kits of LNWR vans.

They probably already have a list of things to make, that won't stop up wish-listing though.

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10 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

How about one of the 10' 6" wheelbase LNWR vans?

 

Admittedly there used to be plastic kits for two or three variants using largely common tooling (I can't recall the maker MAJ) but they disappeared donkey's years ago. IIRC the moulds were acquired by ABS, but the kits never re-emerged.

 

John

 

2 minutes ago, Nile said:

You may be thinking of LYR vans. I've only seen whitemetal kits of LNWR vans.

They probably already have a list of things to make, that won't stop up wish-listing though.

 

Probably he is. The LNWR D88 van had 9'9" wheelbase; some survive in preservation but they were only built from 1908 onwards, so not achieving the same lifespan as the Midland vans (though on a par with Rails' SECR van.)

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48 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

How about one of the 10' 6" wheelbase LNWR vans?

 

Admittedly there used to be plastic kits for two or three variants using largely common tooling (I can't recall the maker MAJ) but they disappeared donkey's years ago. IIRC the moulds were acquired by ABS, but the kits never re-emerged.

 

John

 

40 minutes ago, Nile said:

You may be thinking of LYR vans. I've only seen whitemetal kits of LNWR vans.

They probably already have a list of things to make, that won't stop up wish-listing though.

 

Pretty sure the MAJ ones were L&Y- as Dunsignalling said, two or three variations of van, on both 10' 6" and 12' wheelbase underframes, plus various 12' wb opens- Loco Coal, 5-plank, 1-plank etc. featuring  quite a bit of common tooling. I think they were available briefly in ABS guise (IIRC I've still got a spare underframe kit somewhere in ABS rather than MAJ packaging) but IIRC the last time I recall seeing them available is Mainly Trains still having some in stock at the end of the 90's/ very early 2000s, until I picked up a secondhand MAJ-packaged 12' wb van at the GCR show back in the summer.

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1 hour ago, Nile said:

As for another South Eastern model, a brake van would be most useful.

 

It has been observed of the southern companies, that in most goods train photos there's nothing of their own except the brake vans. But, their habit of topping and tailing goods trains with brakes must increase the attraction for a manufacturer!

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4 hours ago, Invicta said:

 

 

Pretty sure the MAJ ones were L&Y- as Dunsignalling said, two or three variations of van, on both 10' 6" and 12' wheelbase underframes, plus various 12' wb opens- Loco Coal, 5-plank, 1-plank etc. featuring  quite a bit of common tooling. I think they were available briefly in ABS guise (IIRC I've still got a spare underframe kit somewhere in ABS rather than MAJ packaging) but IIRC the last time I recall seeing them available is Mainly Trains still having some in stock at the end of the 90's/ very early 2000s, until I picked up a secondhand MAJ-packaged 12' wb van at the GCR show back in the summer.

Quite correct. The old memory playing tricks. I'll correct my earlier post.

 

John

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2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

It has been observed of the southern companies, that in most goods train photos there's nothing of their own except the brake vans. But, their habit of topping and tailing goods trains with brakes must increase the attraction for a manufacturer!

The SECR six-wheeler might be a good pick, especially as it was almost identical to some belonging to the Midland Railway.

 

Certainly close enough for whatever small differences did exist to be catered for using this kind of production.

 

John

 

 

Edited by Dunsignalling
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On 05/12/2019 at 10:20, Nile said:

Set scale to 50%, press PRINT and see what happens. It might work.

Tried that (not for the D1424 van), have T-shirt. In general, it does not work well, because the detail for the 4mm-scale version is already designed down to the limit of the printing. Which is not to say that one can't print to 2mm scale, just that one has to redesign for that. Also, there is no magic "half-scale" button on the gadgets that print the livery. more's the pity.

 

Going up a scale or two is potentially easier, but one still has to retool for the livery printing. (NB: I am not suggesting that Rails are about to do this, nor that the should be doing so.) 

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On 02/12/2019 at 21:59, KymN said:

As good as Rails is in many ways, this has been a long drawn-out process.  Even making allowances for Warley and a flood of new models, they have not been good at getting these models out of the door.  Same day or next day despatch seems to be the norm with other UK retailers.

I don't know what governs the dispatch process for Rails, but it's worth noting that British-made models can have a different, natural cadence to models made in China. With Chinese manufacture of small-medium batches, one expects to get the whole build in one go, probably in one box on one boat. With domestic manufacture at a small facility, it's more feasible for sub-batches to arrive separately as they come off the line.

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2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The SECR six-wheeler might be a good pick, especially as it was almost identical to some belonging to the Midland Railway.

 

 

Let's rephrase that: The Midland Railway D393 15 ton / 20 ton 6-wheel goods brake, of which 670 were built 1886-1915, might be a good pick, especially as the 40 South Eastern 20 ton 6-wheel goods brakes of 1899 were substantially similar, as built. 

 

2 hours ago, Nile said:

Indeed, D&S did just that in kit form, as seen here:

 

 

The ex-D&S kit is available new from London Road Models.

 

(Guilty conscience: I still haven't finished mine.)

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Got a chance to check them out today =) really nice! I look forward to the next project! 

 

IMG_20191207_112126.jpg.ab293d6163f68514bcf9c0c66b06aea6.jpg

 

Edit: just watched my video with sound, the Terrier is definitely not as loud as the video seems to suggest! Super sensitive audio recorder on my new phone it would seem... 

Edited by GreenGiraffe22
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On 02/12/2019 at 21:59, KymN said:

As good as Rails is in many ways, this has been a long drawn-out process.  Even making allowances for Warley and a flood of new models, they have not been good at getting these models out of the door.  Same day or next day despatch seems to be the norm with other UK retailers.

 

On 06/12/2019 at 18:54, Guy Rixon said:

I don't know what governs the dispatch process for Rails, but it's worth noting that British-made models can have a different, natural cadence to models made in China. With Chinese manufacture of small-medium batches, one expects to get the whole build in one go, probably in one box on one boat. With domestic manufacture at a small facility, it's more feasible for sub-batches to arrive separately as they come off the line.

 

Guy and I are naturally limited in how much we can say, and, from the perspective of the customer, naturally an expectation has been created.

 

It might help if I provide some context. This is a new process, different from traditional 3D-print technology. That makes it relatively expensive and hard to come by. This is in the hands of a manufacturer that was not in the business of volume manufacture, or manufacture of anything like this van. Indeed, nothing like the van had been attempted using this technology.  All of this has meant a steep learning curve. To illustrate how innovative this product is, I understand that the manufacturer of the technology had not anticipated that anyone would achieve such detail and fineness with their process, as such an application for it had not been envisaged.

 

All materials and processes have their limitations and vices - injection moulding, for instance, can experience shrinkage and has to cope with flash, mould-lines and so forth - and, with a new process, the limitations need to be discovered, understood and mastered through a certain amount of trial and error.

 

In other words, the finished product belies the extent to which all sorts of boundaries were pushed to achieve something suitable for the RTR market. Fortunately, faith was kept and everyone involved has shown great commitment.  

 

As a test product or proof of concept, call it what you will, it may be considered successful. However, the implications of volume manufacture in the UK give rise to a number of considerations and challenges that must be dealt with.

 

  

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4 hours ago, Edwardian said:

To illustrate how innovative this product is, I understand that the manufacturer of the technology had not anticipated that anyone would achieve such detail and fineness with their process, as such an application for it had not been envisaged.

 

I doubt Einstein had an atomic bomb in his mind when he declared e = mc2 - but people take ideas and push boundaries.

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On ‎06‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 21:03, Compound2632 said:

 

Let's rephrase that: The Midland Railway D393 15 ton / 20 ton 6-wheel goods brake, of which 670 were built 1886-1915, might be a good pick, especially as the 40 South Eastern 20 ton 6-wheel goods brakes of 1899 were substantially similar, as built. 

 

 

The ex-D&S kit is available new from London Road Models.

 

(Guilty conscience: I still haven't finished mine.)

Agreed, I just cited the SER example first as it makes a natural follow-on in a thread about the initial model. Obviously, the possibility of also doing the Midland version without going to much extra trouble would greatly widen its appeal.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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On 06/12/2019 at 23:18, Guy Rixon said:

Speaking of goods brakes, would anybody else be interested in an LNWR brake, D17, D17A or D17B?

 

D17, built from 1894 onwards, yes yes yes!

 

D17A and D17B are a bit modern for me but ought* to appeal to the LMS/BR(M-Western Division) modeller.

 

*Subject to a programme of re-education on the survival rates of pre-(group standard and BR standard) vehicles.

Edited by Compound2632
parenthesis added to try to clarify meaning
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