Edwardian Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 14 hours ago, Buhar said: Sold out in a matter of a working day as far as I can tell! Congratulations, RoS. I'm guessing that getting a slot on the production facility is pretty tricky given the time-lag between batches. I doubt if it's Dapol causing a bottleneck. I'm also guessing the machine is phenomenonally expensive or else Oliver would have one in his back garden by now. Alan 13 hours ago, autocoach said: I had some correspondence with a US HO passenger car parts manufacturer who investigated the same process. The machines are industrial size only and are leased by the manufacturer (a US tech company I believe) rather than for sale. It takes a large specialized 3 D print factory with a lot of volume to afford the lease. You also have to run the designs through their own proprietary mesh software to make them printable. There are strict limits on the size of the print object when using extra fine detail. Fortunately the size limits currently fall within the range of most HO/4 mm railway equipment including long objects like coaches and smaller (hope for N and Z sorry O scale and bigger). Moore's Law tells us that this type of production will proliferate and become smaller and cheaper over time. Let's just say that Moore's Law is in abeyance where process, machinery and material are unique to a single source, as will frequently be the case where a technology is new. This is a relatively expensive process and will remain so for the foreseeable future. That is just one reason why it will not replace injection moulded product in the foreseeable future, which will continue to be the most economic way to manufacture product where the demand for volume allows amortisation of tooling cost in the initial production run. As I think has been said by Rails executives in interviews with Phil Parker and Andy York, what we think we have here is not a replacement for traditional manufacturing, but an additional string to the bow, enabling Rails to make things that otherwise would not be made. For everything that does not meet the stiff economic test for injection moulded product, it is good that we have this alternative. It's just that customers might bear in mind that, currently and for the foreseeable future, the product won't get any cheaper, however many are printed. As for product availability and gaps between production, this project was very much a single-product test to see what could be done. While I think we can conclude that it has been a successful first foray - thanks to Rails' customers, it's sold out and received positive critical comment - there is a difference between running a further batch of this and developing further products and scaling for their production. So, we shall have to wait and see .... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, Edwardian said: For everything that does not meet the stiff economic test for injection moulded product, it is good that we have this alternative. It's just that customers might bear in mind that, currently and for the foreseeable future, the product won't get any cheaper, however many are printed. Meanwhile, quality at the cottage industry end of the 3D printing spectrum continues to improve. This addresses a similar market - low volume production of models of prototypes with, on the face of it, less widespread appeal* but with the crucial difference that, to my knowledge, no-one has yet offered RTR models. (Although the process can produce near-one-piece models, the extra time and equipment required to decorate them to a marketable standard is no doubt the hurdle for the typical industrious cottager.) *Although some of the models that have been offered RTR in recent years have been of surprisingly esoteric prototypes - and not just locomotives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Compound2632 said: Meanwhile, quality at the cottage industry end of the 3D printing spectrum continues to improve. This addresses a similar market - low volume production of models of prototypes with, on the face of it, less widespread appeal* but with the crucial difference that, to my knowledge, no-one has yet offered RTR models. (Although the process can produce near-one-piece models, the extra time and equipment required to decorate them to a marketable standard is no doubt the hurdle for the typical industrious cottager.) *Although some of the models that have been offered RTR in recent years have been of surprisingly esoteric prototypes - and not just locomotives. SLA printing has certainly improved, and can be done economically on a cottage industry scale. I use quite a lot of such prints for my own projects. The difference between that and what Rails is doing is the material and process. To be suitable for RTR, Rails needed a print quality that required no finishing, and that could be painted, combined with mechanical properties that made it suitable for an RTR product. That is rather different from the requirements of a cottage industry kit. For instance, it needs to survive shipping and an RTR product's level of handling, and you need sufficient flexibility to pop the wheelsets in. There really is only the one technology that can do this, and its sufficiently new that it has not been replicated yet. As has been mentioned, currently this is a technology that can only be deployed in a specialist industrial setting. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Rixon Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Moore's law is obliquely relevant here, as an analogy, in two respects. First, the law held for nearly 50 years because it was economically attractive to make it so. Many generations of fabs and fabrication processes have come and gone because there was a market for faster computers and denser memory. It was obscenely expensive, but achievable because of the large demand. In printers, the aspects that suit scale models will only improve if other industries and demographics need them. We may see a plateau in print resolution because nobody else needs it to be finer. Second, Moore's law was great for processor speed only while more transistors led to greater throughput. That ceased to be true, for a single processor core, some years ago. In printing, the aspects that can be routinely improved cease to matter beyond a certain point. Z-axis layer size is a good example. It's already so fine, in the best processes, that reducing it it doesn't improve the print appearance. The aspect of printing that improve our models are the things that change more rarely and in big steps. Consistency of finish, hardness of the printed material, near-equality of resolution and finish on the three axes, speed of printing: these matter and usually need a complete change of technology to improve. They are not like the process improvements that drive Moore's law. Finally, we - the modelling community - have an unsolved problem with the minimum size of "wires" and "walls" that can be printed. These aspects have not improved slightly in the last few years but not by orders of magnitude. A factor of two in minimum sizes would sort most problems, and a factor of 10 would be all we need for ever. Getting this is a "new approach" change, not a routine improvement. 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) My 2 came today and im a bit disappointed with them and im wondering of I should return them. The BR Brown one came out of the box in 3 bits - the roof - the body and the chassis. I knew about the roof coming off but the body comes off if lifted up off the track. I guess a bit of glue will sort it. The BR Grey one has a broken bit on the chassis - I think its the brake stuff the V bit. I was careful getting out of the box in case this one was in 3 bits but this ones fine the bodys firmly on. However this one suffers from dapols annoying droopy couplings. EDIT : Added pics to show the issues. I'll email rails see what they say Edited January 18, 2020 by meatloaf pics added 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Rails Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 On 18/01/2020 at 19:01, meatloaf said: My 2 came today and im a bit disappointed with them and im wondering of I should return them. The BR Brown one came out of the box in 3 bits - the roof - the body and the chassis. I knew about the roof coming off but the body comes off if lifted up off the track. I guess a bit of glue will sort it. The BR Grey one has a broken bit on the chassis - I think its the brake stuff the V bit. I was careful getting out of the box in case this one was in 3 bits but this ones fine the bodys firmly on. However this one suffers from dapols annoying droopy couplings. EDIT : Added pics to show the issues. I'll email rails see what they say Hi, We have replied to your email. We would happily replace if you would like to return. The van does come in three parts and it is a friction push fit to fix all together. The reason for this was to allow the customer to add additional weight should it be desired. These could be glued and permanently fixed if required. I would recommend PVA as less permanent than super glue. 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Are these available in SECR format? I got lost in the Rails website, I’m afraid! K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 17 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: Are these available in SECR format? No. Not yet. The substitution of Hills brake gear and the addition of roof vents would allow early and late SECR liveries, and early SR livery versions t be produced. This will be considered(!)* o 17 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: I got lost in the Rails website, I’m afraid! K There are only 3 liveries Kevin! * I might not have been allowed to say that 3 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Oliver Rails said: Hi, We have replied to your email. We would happily replace if you would like to return. The van does come in three parts and it is a friction push fit to fix all together. The reason for this was to allow the customer to add additional weight should it be desired. These could be glued and permanently fixed if required. I would recommend PVA as less permanent than super glue. Hi oliver thanks for the reply, if there meant to be in 3 parts im happy to keep them and glue them. I was planning to glue the roofs on in any case Is there anything I can do about the droopy coupling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 15 minutes ago, meatloaf said: Is there anything I can do about the droopy coupling I really want to say something here! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, truffy said: I really want to say something here! Discretion, ever the better part of valour. Well done! Meanwhile, back at the Rails 3D R&D department ..... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, meatloaf said: Hi oliver thanks for the reply, if there meant to be in 3 parts im happy to keep them and glue them. I was planning to glue the roofs on in any case Is there anything I can do about the droopy coupling If the droop is caused by the coupling being loose in the pocket, add a little paper/thin card packing to take up the slack. If it's not that, or packing the pocket isn't sufficient to remove all the droop, it's quite straightforward to fix. Assuming the mount is the standard Dapol arrangement, remove the fixing screw and take off all the bits thus released. What's left is an internally threaded spigot. The cause of the droop is usually the spigot sticking down further than the thickness of the NEM bits, thereby allowing the bit the pocket is mounted on to rock. Gently file the spigot back until most of the excess is gone and reassemble. If overdone, you'll lose the pivoting action, so you'll need to do a bit, reassemble, then repeat until the droop disappears. The method works on all the recent Hornby brake vans, too. John Edited January 20, 2020 by Dunsignalling 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin.M Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Not sure if people spotted it but there were another batch of SE&CR box vans released yesterday, I rung up at 5 pm today and they were all sold and they don't know when they will get the next ones in. I am pleased they have sold them but it would be nice to buy one at some time.... Martin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack P Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Has anyone repainted their vans yet? I recently added 3 links and when put next to some other stock, they look a bit pale.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jack P said: Has anyone repainted their vans yet? I recently added 3 links and when put next to some other stock, they look a bit pale.. I'm not sure that I fancy doing the lettering. I have a couple to renumber, and I plan on keeping even that as simple as possible. The colour is at least closer than Hornby's brake van, So I think I'll limit things to a wash and weathering, and accept that they're older and more faded. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Martin.M said: Not sure if people spotted it but there were another batch of SE&CR box vans released yesterday, I rung up at 5 pm today and they were all sold and they don't know when they will get the next ones in. I am pleased they have sold them but it would be nice to buy one at some time.... Martin I got the email from Rails saying there very limited numbers available, showing all of the variations. Being in AUstralia, I was in bed when the email was sent; by the time I read it the next morning and followed a link to order a BR grey one, they were sold out. I followed the link on Rails' site for remaining stock, there was only one variant left, the Southern brown with BR numbering, weathered, so that was duly ordered. I missed out the previous time too, so I just jumped on whatever I could get. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Rails Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 We had another great response to the latest batch of vans, thank you. If there is sufficient demand we could look at another batch with a new set of running numbers. Would people be interested in this? 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Oliver Rails said: Would people be interested in this? Come now, we all know that demand for a RTR model is proportional to the rarity of the prototype. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 47 minutes ago, Oliver Rails said: We had another great response to the latest batch of vans, thank you. If there is sufficient demand we could look at another batch with a new set of running numbers. Would people be interested in this? YES (especially as I ordered one but never recieved it). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted March 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2020 I would love a (or several) back-dated SECR one(s) but I appreciate that this would require extra work in changing the CAD design 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 @Oliver Rails You can't have too many pre-war SR (ex SE&CR) box vans! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, truffy said: @Oliver Rails You can't have too many pre-war SR (ex SE&CR) box vans! I think you probably can, at least of this diagram and with the freighter brake gear. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invicta Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Oliver Rails said: We had another great response to the latest batch of vans, thank you. If there is sufficient demand we could look at another batch with a new set of running numbers. Would people be interested in this? Having managed to miss out on one so far, I'd definitely be tempted by a further batch- then I just need to get my act together and actually order one before they sell out! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack P Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 8 hours ago, Oliver Rails said: We had another great response to the latest batch of vans, thank you. If there is sufficient demand we could look at another batch with a new set of running numbers. Would people be interested in this? +1 from me, I'd certainly pick up another 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin.M Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) Yes please i tried to order 2 but as I hadn't ordered within 24 hour I missed out as I am sure many people did... Any earlier version with single sided brakes would also be interesting or how about a SE&CR Cattle wagon? Martin Edited March 8, 2020 by Martin.M 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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