Bachmann Europe to bring Thomas to the UK & Ireland

[PaulRhB]

15 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Nope. Never bothered with Thomas the Tank Engine. It wasn't really a thing in the 1970s I seem to recall.

 

It was all about Sammy The Shunter and Ivor The Engine when I was a kid. Ivor was on TV and Sammy books were found in all the preservation society shops possibly because they were published by Ian Allan. Never saw Thomas books anywhere apart from the annuals.

I grew up in the 70's with Thomas and Ivor books!   What's more it must have been a thing as I saw the Reverend W Awdry with his Ffarquhar layout at the Model Engineering exhibition at Wembley and somewhere else too.

Edited April 23, 2019 by PaulRhB

['CHARD]

I certainly was raised with Thomas books ('The Railway series') very much as part of childhood reading and general awareness; I would have been 6 when Rev. W Awdry signed-off at book 26 in '72.  The series didn't restart until a decade had elapsed, and by then preparations were underway for the TV adaptation.  So apart from the Annuals, it was basically the shelves of booksellers that kept the Isle of Sodor and its railway network in the nation's consciousness during the bulk of the seventies.  The stories were so well crafted and illustrated though, that others like Ivor the Engine seemed very undernourished by comparison, a flimsy backstory and no real depth.

Edited April 23, 2019 by 'CHARD
rubbish grammur

[Jeff Smith]

Yes, but who is really in charge Thomas or the driver?  If the Fat Controller tells off Thomas is he really disciplining the driver?

[GreenGiraffe22]

Thomas the Tank Engine is single handedly responsible for my interest in both real and model steam engines today =) 

 

Edit: the fact he was based on a LBSCR prototype built in my home town is a happy coincidence 

Edited April 23, 2019 by GreenGiraffe22

[Dunsignalling]

When exactly did the Thomas books start? I'm thinking late 1940s?

 

I was born in 1952 and never heard of them until well into the 1970s and they definitely didn't form any part of my childhood. 

 

John

[Joseph_Pestell]

I think the first may have been early 50s. There were certainly plenty in my local library (Surrey) in the early 60s and I read them all.

 

Edit: 1945 according to Wikipedia, with Thomas actually only appearing in the second book in 1946.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Joseph_Pestell
Correction

[Pteremy]

I seem to recall Thomas books on their own carousel book stands at major London stations?

[PaulRhB]

12th May 1945 

https://ttte.fandom.com/wiki/The_Three_Railway_Engines

 

[friscopete]

I loved them as kid. I was born in 1946 .Probably first saw them in the early 50's .I got my first Triang train set when I was 5 ,but also later was given a huge pile of Hornby clockwork .mainly prewar .When I was 10 ish I found a book on how to draw railway engines .It was American and those Pennsy GG1 and NYC streamliners really hit the spot .That and Gamages Christmas Lionel display  led me to like US trains hence my eventual washing up at Victors .See another thread .Now Thomas is back on the agenda with my Grandkids though their mum did own a Hornby  Percy and track to play with  when she was 14 ish .I might buy some Thomas N to go with some Kato track I use  so the kids can play without wrecking my 009 trains/All great fun and still wondering why the scale of Bachmann Thomas  bothers any one.

Edited April 23, 2019 by friscopete

[Compound2632]

15 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

A quick bit of research of Bachmann on Wikipedia suggests that Kader probably does the design and can call on both it's US HO and British OO designs in China.  Thomas being British, and already owning the old Palitoy/Mainline tooling probably made OO the obvious choice but labelled as HO for familiarity in the US......

 

Given the number and variety of model railway items that are advertised as "00/H0 scale" (a random example here) I don't think Bachmann were worrying too much.

[LNWR18901910]

On 18/04/2019 at 13:52, HonestTom said:

This is fantastic news - I'd been hoping they'd do this. Obviously the 009 stuff will be a huge seller, and (puts tinfoil hat on) I have a theory that the reason they're producing the comparatively unpopular character Rusty is because they know it's a prototype that will appeal to non-Thomas modellers. However, I think Henrietta and the Red Coaches will have a lot of appeal for light railway and pre-grouping modellers as well. I can also see Percy selling well by reason of that rather neat 0-4-0 chassis.

The Red Coaches are based on LBSCR Stroudley Coaching stock which is benificial for Pre-Grouping stuff.

[Roy Langridge]

6 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

I grew up in the 70's with Thomas and Ivor books!   What's more it must have been a thing as I saw the Reverend W Awdry with his Ffarquhar layout at the Model Engineering exhibition at Wembley and somewhere else too.

 

Ditto. The show was never the same to me after it left Wembley. 

 

Roy

[Compound2632]

57 minutes ago, LNWR18901910 said:

The Red Coaches are based on LBSCR Stroudley Coaching stock which is benificial for Pre-Grouping stuff.

 

Which is rather intriguing, really, as they're based on the carriages in the television series... Britt Allcroft's interest in the Railway Series is said to originate with a documentary she made on the Bluebell Railway in the late 70s; even now the Bluebell's Stroudley 4-wheelers are under or awaiting restoration. Someone in the original production team must have had the knowledge to latch onto Thomas' Brighton origins?

 

Pictures* of Thomas in his pre-preservation** branch line days clearly show Annie and Clarabel to have been elliptical-roofed bogie non-corridor carriages.

 

*Dalby &c **i.e. pre-Britt Allcroft!

Edited April 23, 2019 by Compound2632

[LNWR18901910]

On 19/04/2019 at 17:34, Compound2632 said:

 

Faithful to the prototype, if you care to look at Dalby's illustrations.

 

The "not Thomas" Junior engine had couplings fore and aft, of the usual tension lock variety. As far as I'm aware, the Bachmann Thomas and Friends range in the US has tension lock couplings, though that's not the usual US HO coupling.

The TV Series model makers drew heavy inspiration from the original Dalby artwork in the earlier books (including the first two that Dalby re-illustrated despite frequent artist errors). The engines and rolling stock are all very 'toy-like' in comparison and to add detailing to them such as proper handrails, sprung-buffers and rivets would give them a more realistic look. In fact, the very first book The Three Railway Engines had engines which were considered to be very much toy-like if not freelance themselves. The second book, Thomas the Tank Engine, the character was very much different than what he was originally drawn as. Though from careful and extensive research, he majorly resembles an GNR Class J23/LNER J50 0-6-0T before he pernamently settled into his much-well-known basis, the LB&SCR 0-6-0T. Until Branch Line Engines, his running-board became straight after the crash into the Stationmaster's house as we all know well thus making Thomas resemble the LB&SCR E1X 0-6-0T, a rebuild of an LB&SCR E1 0-6-0T which was later rebuild back into original condition in 1930 once its boiler was condemned.

 

James's first and might-have-been basis would've been the G&SWR Drummond 403 Class known as the 'Austrian Goods' Class 2-6-0. Both locomotives share the same wheel arrangement but as inner-cylinder like a vast majority of both 0-6-0 locomotives and 4-4-0 locomotives as well as some 4-6-0 locomotives. However, Awdry rejected this basis in favour that an English engine would most likely end up on Sodor until The Twin Engines in which we are later introduced to Donald and Douglas, both of whom as the same basis and hail from Scotland. As we all know, James' real-life basis was an L&YR Class 28 0-6-0 which was a modification/rebuild by George Hughes of the Aspinall Class 27 0-6-0. In Sodor: Between the Lines, Awdry described James as an experimental rebuild as a 2-6-0 with 5' 6" driving wheels. The other obvious visual difference from the Class 28 is the lack of the sandboxes over the front splashers and he has a Fowler tender instead of his L&YR Aspinall one. According to Awdry, the Class 28s were powerful goods engines but had a tendency to be nose-heavy, especially when used as relief engines on excursion trains, as they often were, and driven at speed, so the modification of James' basis would hope to cure the problems.

 

From Henry The Green Engine-onwards, the Reverend kept getting letters from children asking why the characters looked so different from one illustration to another. Originally, he actually intended to write out the beloved green engine at one point, but instead changed it to him suffering a crash and getting a complete re-build into an LMS Stanier Class 5MT 4-6-0 better known as the Black Five (my all-time top-personal favourite steam locomotive). Like the real Black Five, they lacked splashers but by the second season, Henry gained a full set of splashers on each side. In the later books (as well as some merchandise), Henry has a Fowler tender instead of his Stanier tender like his real-life basis as well as his original GNR/GER B12 style tender. Gordon, well, he was modified with LMS Stanier Duchess valve gear and cylinders in place of his LNER Gresley-type valve gear and a six-wheeled Fowler tender. Edward's basis, the Furness Railway K2 4-4-0 was modified with different cab windows and a Fowler tender and his basis was already gone during the LMS days in 1931. The first new character based on an actual-real-life loco was Toby the Tram Engine in, well, Toby the Tram Engine. Elsie the Luggage Van was another forgotten character Awdry made for his layout but never featured in any book sadly. Oh, Elsie, we hardly knew ye...

 

I can go on but I do not intend to make these longer than two paragraphs - the main reason being that I have so much to talk about even when trying to make a point as short yet detailed and simple as possible.

[Legend]

I was brought up on the Railway Series and I think with Edwardian , it was the first book I was able to read . In my case it was "The Three Railway engines" the first of the series .  In answer to the person saying why are we bothered, no I don't model them  but they are of interest , because really its memories of happy times .   But for me the railway series ended when the Rev stopped writing them.

[SomethingTrainLover]

Now I have to get my RWS info out :P. You’re right for the most part. James was built, emphasis being on built, he wasn't rebuilt from a normal 28, to a modified Class 28 design. Plans for a 28 Mogul do actually exist in the NRM archive, though it’s almost certain that they ever never actually built the engine. 

Gordon was the original prototype to the A1 class, built circa 1922 to be the testbed to work out any kinks or issues with the design, tinkered and modified until the design was near identical to the engine that would come next, Great Northern. Given he wasn’t given a number, and giving him one would prove to be an, ehem, arduous process, he was sold in 1923 to the NWR. In 1939 he was sent to Crewe, following issues had with the conjugated valve gear due to the typical issues they faced with lack of maintenance etc, and was rebuilt by Stanier, in the books it’s explained that STH and Stanier both apprenticed at Swindon. His conjugated valve gear was removed, third inside cylinder was removed, his running board was raised to accommodate two larger outside LMS cylinders with LMS style motion.

Henry started life as a bit of a mongrel, built using stolen plans for an early A1 circa 1919. However, the plans stolen were ones Gresley had discarded previously, and the resulting engine had the gaps filled with more taken from the C1 Atlantic’s, and notably a small firebox. I’m sure you lot know the rest. Of course he was later rebuilt in 1935 to a design near identical to that of the Stanier Black 5.

It should also be noted that Awdry addressed, in a letter I believe, that the reason the engines appear in their later, rebuilt forms in the earlier books which take place before they would’ve received their mods and rebuilds was down to artist error. Basically, blame Dalby.

Edited April 28, 2019 by SomethingTrainLover

[HonestTom]

20 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Which is rather intriguing, really, as they're based on the carriages in the television series... Britt Allcroft's interest in the Railway Series is said to originate with a documentary she made on the Bluebell Railway in the late 70s; even now the Bluebell's Stroudley 4-wheelers are under or awaiting restoration. Someone in the original production team must have had the knowledge to latch onto Thomas' Brighton origins?

 

Pictures* of Thomas in his pre-preservation** branch line days clearly show Annie and Clarabel to have been elliptical-roofed bogie non-corridor carriages.

 

*Dalby &c **i.e. pre-Britt Allcroft!

 

I believe the reason these coaches were used was simply because the production made use of Tenmille Gauge 1 kits for the rolling stock in the first couple of series, and the LBSC coaches were part of that range. Tenmille also produced a number of narrow gauge wagons in G, which were also used in the series - hence you'll often see a very Lynton & Barnstaple-looking wagon in the sidings. Later on, I understand they basically scratchbuilt everything.

[LNWR18901910]

Say, is it possible to make Henry's Mk1 form as well as flat-running-board RWS Thomas and RWS Black James? I was thinking of doing a fictional classification on giving Henry's old shape a backstory.

Henry's classification would be a GNR V5 (experimental mixed-traffic locomotive) later reclassified as B19.

[RJS1977]

On 24/04/2019 at 01:05, LNWR18901910 said:

In the later books (as well as some merchandise), Henry has a Fowler tender instead of his Stanier tender like his real-life basis as well as his original GNR/GER B12 style tender.

 

In 'Enterprising Engines', Henry had a total of seven tenders! ;-)

[No Decorum]

9 hours ago, LNWR18901910 said:

Say, is it possible to make Henry's Mk1 form as well as flat-running-board RWS Thomas and RWS Black James? I was thinking of doing a fictional classification on giving Henry's old shape a backstory.

Henry's classification would be a GNR V5 (experimental mixed-traffic locomotive) later reclassified as B19.

That won’t do at all. Henry was reboilered Stanier-style to overcome steaming problems. I’m prepared to concede that the LMS was as good as the LNER but not better!

[SomethingTrainLover]

18 hours ago, No Decorum said:

That won’t do at all. Henry was reboilered Stanier-style to overcome steaming problems. I’m prepared to concede that the LMS was as good as the LNER but not better!

He was a bit more than just reboilered. Contrary to the TVS and some illustrations, Henry mk1 was a pacific. To get a good idea of what he looked like I'd reference the early A1 drawings from around 1919, and those that come before and after, these greatly resemble the original plan of the A1, being a stretched C1 and this is what Henry was said to look like prior to his rebuild. His rebuild would've entailed a bit more than just a reboilering, I suspect that given the intensity in the difference between the pre and post-Kipper incident that the only major component that was reused from his original build were likely sections of his frames and maybe some cab fittings. 

[GreenGiraffe22]

A boiler rebuild must be quite traumatic for a Sodor loco, presumably the face would have to come off? If the new boiler has a different circumference do they get a new face? I recall that rather dark illustration in one of the books of locos rotting away alive in the scrap yard. 

 

Happy Sunday! 

[Nile]

The Rev Awdry originally drew Henry as an Atlantic, he was supposed to be smaller than Gordon but bigger than Edward. It was because the early artists kept making a mess of him that Awdry had Henry rebuilt as a black 5, making it clear what he should look like.

[SomethingTrainLover]

9 hours ago, Nile said:

The Rev Awdry originally drew Henry as an Atlantic, he was supposed to be smaller than Gordon but bigger than Edward. It was because the early artists kept making a mess of him that Awdry had Henry rebuilt as a black 5, making it clear what he should look like.

Yeah, this is the irl reason why Henry's background is what it is.
 

13 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

A boiler rebuild must be quite traumatic for a Sodor loco, presumably the face would have to come off? If the new boiler has a different circumference do they get a new face? I recall that rather dark illustration in one of the books of locos rotting away alive in the scrap yard. 

 

Happy Sunday! 

Well there's a fairly easy explanation to this...Don't go that deep

[relaxinghobby]

Hurray, I'm looking forward to Bachmann TTT range becoming available, lots of modelling fodder there.

Here are two of my conversions from the Not-Thomas engine called Billy IIRC.

Both on the Thomas chassis which is a nice runner with 18mm wheels. The blue one is made more realistic to my eyes, plasticard sides to widen the tanks and the front buffer beam cut off and raised up. The green saddle tank number 3E is a Hornby Percy body on the Bachman footplate and chassis.

Lots of modelling potential.