Bachmann Europe to bring Thomas to the UK & Ireland

[Coryton]

On 28/04/2019 at 21:35, SomethingTrainLover said:

Well there's a fairly easy explanation to this...Don't go that deep

 

Although to be fair the Awdrys went into a rather extensive level of detail on the Island of Sodor and its inhabitants, little of which could be included in the railway series books with their somewhat limited number of words.

 

(Surely a re-print of The Island of Sodor: Its People, History and Railways would be worth it...?)

 

I don't think they spent much time considering the mechanics of locomotives with faces though.

[PaulRhB]

Like Star Wars the fan created backstories and theories can be a millstone  

I just enjoyed them for what they were as a small kid, I knew them by heart so the parents couldn’t shorten them, and the models are a nice relaxing reminder of that. I have a few as I used to repair returns for a friend what was a trader and filled in a few gaps.

It makes a nice change now and then to escape to the same world as the Reverend, I don’t bother wondering why I just enjoy it. 

 

[RedGemAlchemist]

After Hornby cancelled their Thomas line it was inevitable really. 

[Coryton]

26 minutes ago, RedGemAlchemist said:

After Hornby cancelled their Thomas line it was inevitable really. 

 

I'm not so sure.

 

The TV shows have moved to a much younger audience - it wouldn't have surprised me if Bachmann had also decided the range was no longer worth it.

 

 

[woodenhead]

46 minutes ago, RedGemAlchemist said:

After Hornby cancelled their Thomas line it was inevitable really. 

I think it was probably licensing costs that did it for Hornby against a rather restricted market if Bachmann had the rest of the world already.

 

Bachmann then taking on the UK licence was an obvious follow on.

[RedGemAlchemist]

45 minutes ago, Coryton said:

 

I'm not so sure.

 

The TV shows have moved to a much younger audience - it wouldn't have surprised me if Bachmann had also decided the range was no longer worth it.

True.

 

Either way, for a freelancer like me it means more fodder so that's useful. 

[Coryton]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

I think it was probably licensing costs that did it for Hornby against a rather restricted market if Bachmann had the rest of the world already.

 

Bachmann then taking on the UK licence was an obvious follow on.

 

Hmmm.

 

I wonder how the UK market for TTTE 00 models compares to the rest of the world (mostly the US?).

 

It's not obvious to me that Hornby's market was much smaller than Bachmann's.

[Dunsignalling]

13 minutes ago, Coryton said:

 

Hmmm.

 

I wonder how the UK market for TTTE 00 models compares to the rest of the world (mostly the US?).

 

It's not obvious to me that Hornby's market was much smaller than Bachmann's.

I'd think there were almost certainly multiple factors influencing Hornby's decision to withdraw from the franchise.

 

They'd been making the key elements of their range for a long time and I suspect much of the tooling was in need of replacement. A big commitment if several items required attention more-or-less immediately. 

 

The TV series has also introduced quite a few new characters in recent years which would need to be added to the range.

 

Possibly too much to tackle in too short a timescale without detracting from their mainstream activities?

 

John

 

 

[Jack]

On 30/04/2019 at 14:47, Coryton said:

 

 

(Surely a re-print of The Island of Sodor: Its People, History and Railways would be worth it...?)

 

 

I have been after a sensibly priced copy of this one for ages. However, after doing some digging I heard that the book rights are jointly owned between the estates of Wilbert and George as co-authors ... and whoever ended up with Georges estate was unhappy with the merchandising deal done with Britt all those years ago, so has vetoed any reprints.

[Compound2632]

I'm perplexed. This post, locking a premature thread on this subject, shows what I take to be the Andy's opening post of this thread, illustrated not with Bachmann's publicity photo of the metallic blue Thomas, but my photo of my Thomasified Bachmann Junior not-Thomas loco. Andy's post doesn't appear to have been edited. How does that work?

 

That's a Hornby wagon in my photo!

 

By the way, I suppose I should get round to reading the small print on assignment of copyright of uploaded images...

Edited May 2, 2019 by Compound2632

[RJS1977]

22 hours ago, Jack said:

 

I have been after a sensibly priced copy of this one for ages. However, after doing some digging I heard that the book rights are jointly owned between the estates of Wilbert and George as co-authors ... and whoever ended up with Georges estate was unhappy with the merchandising deal done with Britt all those years ago, so has vetoed any reprints.

 

Not only that, but I understand that HIT have vetoed Christopher Awdry from writing any more books in the series. They allowed him to write 'Thomas and His Friends' in 2011 to mark what would have been Wilbert's 100th birthday but only under the strict cndition that it would be the last one - hence the ominous words "THE END" on the final page.

[SomethingTrainLover]

That I highly doubt.

 

[papagolfjuliet]

On 01/05/2019 at 16:19, woodenhead said:

I think it was probably licensing costs that did it for Hornby against a rather restricted market if Bachmann had the rest of the world already.

 

 

That and worn tools would be my guess. Some of the toolings used in the Hornby Thomas range dated from the early Fifties, and all but a few of them must have seen a great deal of use from the mid-Eighties on.

[SomethingTrainLover]

Well, what also probably, and this is the most likely reason, it was the fact that they weren’t selling enough for it to be profitable. Aaaand you can see why, like has been said, they were using ancient tooling marked up to a point where you’d be better off getting a SD version of the model and painting it, cause many bought those cause “RWS”. And even then, they weren’t bar Henry. 

[The Stationmaster]

Crikey - look what I miss when I run away to sea - a new (to Britain) TTTE range, an announcement of an announcement, an announcement, a retraction of an announcement, and the first day of the opening of a new model railway emporium (but I could actually get into the shop on Day 3 so all was well in the end.  

 

I wonder what will be announced the next time I run away to sea?  

 

BTW this seems to be a very logical and sensible move by Bachmann.

['CHARD]

On 04/05/2019 at 05:06, SomethingTrainLover said:

Well, what also probably, and this is the most likely reason, it was the fact that they weren’t selling enough for it to be profitable. Aaaand you can see why, like has been said, they were using ancient tooling marked up to a point where you’d be better off getting a SD version of the model and painting it, cause many bought those cause “RWS”. And even then, they weren’t bar Henry. 

 

SD version ?

 

'RWS' ?

 

Weren't what, bar Henry ?

 

Sorry, I'm being thick here!!!

[SomethingTrainLover]

SD=Super detail/standard range

RWS is the Railway Series

And except for Henry, none were even “RWS-Accurate”, that being realistic and accurate to their depictions in the illustrations and how Awdry described them.  And Henry’s only that way because he was rebuilt into a design near identical to a Black 5.

['CHARD]

On 07/05/2019 at 19:05, SomethingTrainLover said:

SD=Super detail/standard range

RWS is the Railway Series

And except for Henry, none were even “RWS-Accurate”, that being realistic and accurate to their depictions in the illustrations and how Awdry described them.  And Henry’s only that way because he was rebuilt into a design near identical to a Black 5.

 

Genuinely, many thanks for that explanation.

[HonestTom]

On ‎28‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 03:12, SomethingTrainLover said:

He was a bit more than just reboilered. Contrary to the TVS and some illustrations, Henry mk1 was a pacific. To get a good idea of what he looked like I'd reference the early A1 drawings from around 1919, and those that come before and after, these greatly resemble the original plan of the A1, being a stretched C1 and this is what Henry was said to look like prior to his rebuild. His rebuild would've entailed a bit more than just a reboilering, I suspect that given the intensity in the difference between the pre and post-Kipper incident that the only major component that was reused from his original build were likely sections of his frames and maybe some cab fittings. 

The Island of Sodor: Its People, History and Railways states that the pre-rebuild Henry and the post-rebuild one are actually two completely different engines - the first one was scrapped and the Fat Controller managed to get a new Black 5. Although post-rebuild Henry remembers events that happened to pre-rebuild Henry, so there are three possibilities:

 

1. Thanks to some weird metaphysical thing, an engine's identity is the engine. If you call an engine Henry and treat it as Henry, it literally becomes Henry. This would also explain how in a later book, the replica of Iron Duke remembers the broad gauge, despite not having been built then. This of course raises other questions - when locomotives are renamed or identities are swapped, what happens to the engine's personality? If the first Henry hadn't been scrapped, would you have two locomotives with the same mind? Is the new Night Owl under construction by the GWS going to be a nightmarish amalgamation of the minds of locomotives 4115, 2861 and 5227 trapped inside a single body?

 

2. The second Henry is an imposter and underwent a gruelling programme of education to enable him to effectively pretend to be the first one. I'm envisioning a shed at Crewe that's set up like that scene in A Clockwork Orange to brainwash him into thinking he is Henry. Days of learning and testing. "Once an engine attached to a train was afraid of what?" "How many buckets of water did the elephant drink?" "How many wheels did you have on page 23 of Troublesome Engines?"

 

3. Maybe we can ignore The Island of Sodor.

[No Decorum]

2 hours ago, HonestTom said:

The Island of Sodor: Its People, History and Railways states that the pre-rebuild Henry and the post-rebuild one are actually two completely different engines - the first one was scrapped and the Fat Controller managed to get a new Black 5. Although post-rebuild Henry remembers events that happened to pre-rebuild Henry, so there are three possibilities:

 

1. Thanks to some weird metaphysical thing, an engine's identity is the engine. If you call an engine Henry and treat it as Henry, it literally becomes Henry. This would also explain how in a later book, the replica of Iron Duke remembers the broad gauge, despite not having been built then. This of course raises other questions - when locomotives are renamed or identities are swapped, what happens to the engine's personality? If the first Henry hadn't been scrapped, would you have two locomotives with the same mind? Is the new Night Owl under construction by the GWS going to be a nightmarish amalgamation of the minds of locomotives 4115, 2861 and 5227 trapped inside a single body?

 

2. The second Henry is an imposter and underwent a gruelling programme of education to enable him to effectively pretend to be the first one. I'm envisioning a shed at Crewe that's set up like that scene in A Clockwork Orange to brainwash him into thinking he is Henry. Days of learning and testing. "Once an engine attached to a train was afraid of what?" "How many buckets of water did the elephant drink?" "How many wheels did you have on page 23 of Troublesome Engines?"

 

3. Maybe we can ignore The Island of Sodor.

Point 3 – no. If we did, we would have missed the highly entertaining points 1 and 2.  Perhaps point 1 isn’t as weird as you think. People who have had transplanted organs, or their nearest and dearest, have reported slight personality changes due, presumably, to the alien DNA inside them.

[Compound2632]

Just now, No Decorum said:

Point 3 – no. If we did, we would have missed the highly entertaining points 1 and 2.  Perhaps point 1 isn’t as weird as you think. People who have had transplanted organs, or their nearest and dearest, have reported slight personality changes due, presumably, to the alien DNA inside them.

 

Locomotives undergo so many "transplants" over their lives - new boiler, frames, cylinders, being superheated... whilst retaining their original identity that point 1 is pretty much normal. The metaphysical identity of the locomotive is its engine record card in the drawing office filing cabinet!

[No Decorum]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Locomotives undergo so many "transplants" over their lives - new boiler, frames, cylinders, being superheated... whilst retaining their original identity that point 1 is pretty much normal. The metaphysical identity of the locomotive is its engine record card in the drawing office filing cabinet!

I have heard it said that the identity of a steam locomotive is in its frames. I think you might be closer the mark in choosing the engine record card. There is hardly anything left of the original Flying Scotsman; only the continuity. Even then, its performance has been radically altered as a result of design changes. I wonder what Zeno would have made of it all.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

Even then, its performance has been radically altered as a result of design changes. I wonder what Zeno would have made of it all.

 

My performance has changed radically over my lifetime, without any major reconstruction!

[SomethingTrainLover]

9 hours ago, HonestTom said:

The Island of Sodor: Its People, History and Railways states that the pre-rebuild Henry and the post-rebuild one are actually two completely different engines - the first one was scrapped and the Fat Controller managed to get a new Black 5. Although post-rebuild Henry remembers events that happened to pre-rebuild Henry, so there are three possibilities:

 

1. Thanks to some weird metaphysical thing, an engine's identity is the engine. If you call an engine Henry and treat it as Henry, it literally becomes Henry. This would also explain how in a later book, the replica of Iron Duke remembers the broad gauge, despite not having been built then. This of course raises other questions - when locomotives are renamed or identities are swapped, what happens to the engine's personality? If the first Henry hadn't been scrapped, would you have two locomotives with the same mind? Is the new Night Owl under construction by the GWS going to be a nightmarish amalgamation of the minds of locomotives 4115, 2861 and 5227 trapped inside a single body?

 

2. The second Henry is an imposter and underwent a gruelling programme of education to enable him to effectively pretend to be the first one. I'm envisioning a shed at Crewe that's set up like that scene in A Clockwork Orange to brainwash him into thinking he is Henry. Days of learning and testing. "Once an engine attached to a train was afraid of what?" "How many buckets of water did the elephant drink?" "How many wheels did you have on page 23 of Troublesome Engines?"

 

3. Maybe we can ignore The Island of Sodor.

This is something that's been debated, and having Henry 1 and 2, generally its accepted that they're the same engine. Even among the Awdrys this was debated, and given Henry mk2 remembers everything Henry mk1 does, it only really makes sense that they're the same engine.

[phil-b259]

17 hours ago, SomethingTrainLover said:

This is something that's been debated, and having Henry 1 and 2, generally its accepted that they're the same engine. Even among the Awdrys this was debated, and given Henry mk2 remembers everything Henry mk1 does, it only really makes sense that they're the same engine.

 

Folk should remember that in real life some CMEs were more than prepared to virtually scrap one engine and build another under the guises of a 'major rebuild' to keep the accountants happy.

 

For example Maunsell 'rebuilt' a number of unsatisfactory Drummond 4-6-0 locos into N15 King Arthurs - with the only bit of the original build being reused comprising of the locos tender!https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSWR_N15_class#Maunsell’s_"Eastleigh_Arthurs":_Drummond_rebuilds 

 

A similar exercise was carried out on the LMS where the 40 Claughton class locos were 'rebuilt' into Patriot class locos with virtually nothing of the original engine being reused. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Patriot_Class