Bachmann Europe to bring Thomas to the UK & Ireland

[Phil Parker]

7 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

As for "fidelity". To what? The books, or one of the TV series. For kids it'll have to keep up with all the new/restyled characters or it's dead.

 

I brought up the subject of Annie and Clarabel being 4-wheeled models but bogie coaches in the only acceptable guide - the first 26 books. The people on the stand looked at me as though I was mad...

 

Tri-ang shorties are perfect when painted brown to recreate the coaches AS THEY SHOULD BE!

 

(I also complained that Edward wasn't part of their initial offering. I'm fed up of that upstart Thomas getting all the glory. He didn't turn up until book 2)

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

I brought up the subject of Annie and Clarabel being 4-wheeled models but bogie coaches in the only acceptable guide - the first 26 books. The people on the stand looked at me as though I was mad...

 

 

Try suggesting that a model of a coal wagon should resemble its prototype.

[TrainMan2001]

26 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

 

Oh dear! I hope I'm not too melancholic! But I'm a hard-bitten pragmatist, and sometimes a cynic as well. Any business worth its salt will always be on the lookout for new markets to tap. I certainly wouldn't blame Bachmann for doing that; after all, that's what they do! If they have limited production  slots within their set-up, it'll always go to to that with the best, most robust, financial returns. 

 

Life's like that, you know....

I'm sorry, that was a bit rude to call you that. I understand your points a little better now, but I do hope you understand mine too. I'm certain there will always be a market for high fidelity models. Take it from a guy who's currently trying to put full cab detail in the current Bachmann Thomas model just in hopes that it'll look better next to real OO scale engines.

[eldomtom2]

The Thomas range has hardly dominated their US range, and gets new releases fairly slowly. I doubt there's anything to worry about there.

[87004]

I think Hornby did the right thing ditching the Thomas franchise.  Here's why...

 

I believe Thomas is really only popular with the smaller children.  Children who are probably not dexterous enough to assemble and run Thomas and his friends.  By the time they get to an age where they can handle the products and re-rail the vehicles, I think they've moved on to other things.   Eg super heroes, Lego, Minecraft etc.

 

I'm fortunate enough to be blessed with a grandchild who at the age of 7 says Thomas is 'Babyish', peer-group pressure I presume?  He even said the maybe we could repaint some of the stock so it isn't Thomas any more.  I'd bought him Percy and the mail train two or three years ago.  He loved launching it round the track at high speed and delighted in accidents.  There's an awful lot of accidents in the Thomas TV programmes!

 

Now after watching the Great Model Railway Challenge TV show he delights in using the mail train to deposit a model person on the track.  It always has to be a lady!  Have we produced a serial killer? ;-)

 

I have a colleague with a 3 year old son who is infatuated by Thomas - maybe the Thomas set will have to be moved on.

 

I too think the Thomas prices are a 'bit toppy' - £30 - £50 for a coach!  I guess that's partially due to the licence fee.

 

Also as an aside DCC is a must for children, they insist on running more than one train on the track.   I do think Hornby are barking up the wrong tree introducing the analogue controls that they did this year.  They really need to produce a value for money DCC system.  Railmaster does appeal to my grandson.

 

I'd be interested to hear what others think...

 

 

 

[tomparryharry]

1 hour ago, TrainMan2001 said:

I'm sorry, that was a bit rude to call you that. I understand your points a little better now, but I do hope you understand mine too. I'm certain there will always be a market for high fidelity models. Take it from a guy who's currently trying to put full cab detail in the current Bachmann Thomas model just in hopes that it'll look better next to real OO scale engines.

 

Don't apologise old chap. The free exchange of views on here is one of the things that move it all along. A lot of other posters on here are wondering 'where's my model? After all it's only been X years, since the announcement.... There is a certain rationale to the process, and it mostly revolves about things like profit margins, and things like that. When things like Thomas can far outstrip Branchline by an approximate factor of 100-odd to 1, and the profit margin is far greater for Bachmann, it make perfect business sense.  

 

Ian.

[PaulRhB]

2 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

I brought up the subject of Annie and Clarabel being 4-wheeled models but bogie coaches in the only acceptable guide - the first 26 books. The people on the stand looked at me as though I was mad...

But like everything else it's the tv tie in that they follow as it has 'more fans' than the books, with the Brand being Thomas the Tank he'll always take precedence as brand is everything to marketing and money types

 

The Proper fans like Edward  

18 minutes ago, 87004 said:

I believe Thomas is really only popular with the smaller children.  Children who are probably not dexterous enough to assemble and run Thomas and his friends.  By the time they get to an age where they can handle the products and re-rail the vehicles, I think they've moved on to other things.  

 oh dear must check my dexterity 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by PaulRhB

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

I brought up the subject of Annie and Clarabel being 4-wheeled models but bogie coaches in the only acceptable guide - the first 26 books. The people on the stand looked at me as though I was mad...

 

Tri-ang shorties are perfect when painted brown to recreate the coaches AS THEY SHOULD BE!

 

(I also complained that Edward wasn't part of their initial offering. I'm fed up of that upstart Thomas getting all the glory. He didn't turn up until book 2)

But the coaches as drawn by Rev. Awdry were straight and it's a good many years since I've seen any of the old Tri-ang ones on which both body and roof could be so described.

 

John

[johnlambert]

1 hour ago, 87004 said:

I think Hornby did the right thing ditching the Thomas franchise.  Here's why...

 

I believe Thomas is really only popular with the smaller children.  Children who are probably not dexterous enough to assemble and run Thomas and his friends.  By the time they get to an age where they can handle the products and re-rail the vehicles, I think they've moved on to other things.   Eg super heroes, Lego, Minecraft etc.

 

I'm fortunate enough to be blessed with a grandchild who at the age of 7 says Thomas is 'Babyish', peer-group pressure I presume?  He even said the maybe we could repaint some of the stock so it isn't Thomas any more.  I'd bought him Percy and the mail train two or three years ago.  He loved launching it round the track at high speed and delighted in accidents.  There's an awful lot of accidents in the Thomas TV programmes!

 

Now after watching the Great Model Railway Challenge TV show he delights in using the mail train to deposit a model person on the track.  It always has to be a lady!  Have we produced a serial killer? ;-)

 

I have a colleague with a 3 year old son who is infatuated by Thomas - maybe the Thomas set will have to be moved on.

 

I too think the Thomas prices are a 'bit toppy' - £30 - £50 for a coach!  I guess that's partially due to the licence fee.

 

Also as an aside DCC is a must for children, they insist on running more than one train on the track.   I do think Hornby are barking up the wrong tree introducing the analogue controls that they did this year.  They really need to produce a value for money DCC system.  Railmaster does appeal to my grandson.

 

I'd be interested to hear what others think...

 

 

 

 

I think you may have a point.  I loved the Railway Series books when I was about five or six, just under forty years ago.  I think I got my first train sets (Hornby clockwork, followed by the Hornby Desmond goods set) at about the same age.  Would I have wanted a Thomas set if one was available back then?  Maybe.  By age seven I'd probably have cringed at the thought, although I was quite interested when Thomas became part of the Hornby range, it was more of an academic interest (trying to work out which models they had adapted to become Thomas and his friends).

 

So your target audience are probably only interested for a couple of years.

 

But if it makes money for Bachmann that can be ploughed into new products (N gauge Class 117, for preference), then it can only be a good thing.

[Roy Langridge]

2 hours ago, johnlambert said:

 

I think you may have a point.  I loved the Railway Series books when I was about five or six, just under forty years ago.  I think I got my first train sets (Hornby clockwork, followed by the Hornby Desmond goods set) at about the same age.  Would I have wanted a Thomas set if one was available back then?  Maybe.  By age seven I'd probably have cringed at the thought, although I was quite interested when Thomas became part of the Hornby range, it was more of an academic interest (trying to work out which models they had adapted to become Thomas and his friends).

 

So your target audience are probably only interested for a couple of years.

 

But if it makes money for Bachmann that can be ploughed into new products (N gauge Class 117, for preference), then it can only be a good thing.

But it is potentially those couple of years that leads to a life-long interest in railways. If Thomas etc. don’t exist in model form, that interest may not be fostered. 
 

Roy

[PaulRhB]

It’s easy to underestimate the power of retro toys too  I built a layout based on Camberwick Green in 16mm/ft and plenty asked where Bessy the engine was. Thomas was also popular with all ages when we used to do G scale display layouts and they’d ask if we had Ivor too. 
There’s a lot of trying to find fault with the morals and stereotypes of older kids books, toys and even tv but I think it’s having a balance that’s important so they can decide what they like. Bachmann have followed the tv series with its wider modern influences, Hornby tried to base it on real locos rather than cariacatures. I’m happy with either, I was even capable of realising characters traits and pomposity so it makes me wary of those who accuse it of being preachy. I was able to tell the story and moral behind it and they were far more fun and less preachy than a certain more famous book

There’s the great thread on creating the Tidmouth layout but when I want a bit of retro fun I’d choose the ‘faced’ locos and run them as one of four alternative sets of stock on my layout. 
Oh and now the NG options too

[tomparryharry]

On 04/11/2019 at 12:47, Coach bogie said:

This is a bit of a non announcement to me. The designs are many years old and, if you looked, several traders circumnavigated the trade licence. There was also the Bachmann Harry Plopper set, on the shelf,  with a modified hall. Here is my 5 year old when he had just received his Bachmann goodies with moving eyes etc. To show how old these are, he has just applied to take his driving test!

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Your son has impeccable taste in locomotives. Not many layouts have Taff the Coal Engine in their collection! 

[Phil Parker]

14 hours ago, johnlambert said:

I think you may have a point.  I loved the Railway Series books when I was about five or six, just under forty years ago.  I think I got my first train sets (Hornby clockwork, followed by the Hornby Desmond goods set) at about the same age.  Would I have wanted a Thomas set if one was available back then?  Maybe.  By age seven I'd probably have cringed at the thought, although I was quite interested when Thomas became part of the Hornby range, it was more of an academic interest (trying to work out which models they had adapted to become Thomas and his friends).

 

So your target audience are probably only interested for a couple of years.

 

Nowadays the books aren't the only way to experience Thomas. Visiting one of the many themed days on a preserved railway might make the range more interesting to a youngster.

 

There's also a question about who the rides at Thomas Land are aimed at. I bet Drayton Manor park are far better clued up than most of us at the demographic this stuff appeals to.

[HonestTom]

18 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

It’s easy to underestimate the power of retro toys too  I built a layout based on Camberwick Green in 16mm/ft and plenty asked where Bessy the engine was. Thomas was also popular with all ages when we used to do G scale display layouts and they’d ask if we had Ivor too. 
There’s a lot of trying to find fault with the morals and stereotypes of older kids books, toys and even tv but I think it’s having a balance that’s important so they can decide what they like. Bachmann have followed the tv series with its wider modern influences, Hornby tried to base it on real locos rather than cariacatures. I’m happy with either, I was even capable of realising characters traits and pomposity so it makes me wary of those who accuse it of being preachy. I was able to tell the story and moral behind it and they were far more fun and less preachy than a certain more famous book

There’s the great thread on creating the Tidmouth layout but when I want a bit of retro fun I’d choose the ‘faced’ locos and run them as one of four alternative sets of stock on my layout. 
Oh and now the NG options too

It’s not so much that Hornby made a conscious choice to base their Thomas characters on real locomotives as they used already-existing tooling to save money.

[Roy Langridge]

8 minutes ago, HonestTom said:

It’s not so much that Hornby made a conscious choice to base their Thomas characters on real locomotives as they used already-existing tooling to save money.

Sorry, but I don’t follow. The Thomas engines were based on real engines by Rev Awdry. Nothing to do with existing mouldings. 
 

Roy

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Sorry, but I don’t follow. The Thomas engines were based on real engines by Rev Awdry. Nothing to do with existing mouldings. 
 

Roy

I presume you mean that Rev. Awdry based his engines on real ones!

 

As for Hornby's range, Thomas was created by altering the moulds of their LBSCR E2 loco, James, I think from the old Tri-ang 3F, Gordon from the old A3, etc. 

 

IIRC the only wholly new mouldings were Percy, Toby, Bill and Ben.

 

John 

Edited January 25, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Compound2632]

Remember, we're not talking finescale Thomas here. That's to be found elsewhere:

 

 

 

 

[SomethingTrainLover]

On 24/01/2020 at 11:45, Phil Parker said:

 

I brought up the subject of Annie and Clarabel being 4-wheeled models but bogie coaches in the only acceptable guide - the first 26 books. The people on the stand looked at me as though I was mad...

 

Tri-ang shorties are perfect when painted brown to recreate the coaches AS THEY SHOULD BE!

 

(I also complained that Edward wasn't part of their initial offering. I'm fed up of that upstart Thomas getting all the glory. He didn't turn up until book 2)

Or Stanier 57’ Subs ;). I used the cheap Dapol ones personally

 

Anyway, I’m surprised they aren’t also starting with ANY Ng stock, though it would’ve been wise too given the huge amount of 009 buyers.

Edited January 27, 2020 by SomethingTrainLover

[PaulRhB]

Thanks to a post on NGRM N scale Thomas at 1:11

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by PaulRhB

[napierlion]

11 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Thanks to a post on NGRM N scale Thomas at 1:11

 

Good morning,

 

I know my local retailer, Sawyer Models, has the N gauge Thomas range on pre-order with their supplier in the USA and already imports the OO & 009 range.

 

All the best

Charles 

[PaulRhB]

Several do, I’ve used two others for years   From this year though any Bachmann retailer can. 

[SomethingTrainLover]

Right blowing the dust off this briefly. 
So the main range is expected to launch next month and through January. I assume they'll also probably announce the next additions for the UK range, hopefully even start bringing in the NG stuff.
I expect the new N scale range to also launch next year now that it's out in the US. Having gotten my eyes on Thomas and hands on Percy, I can confirm a few things
1) They are indeed UK N scale, Annie and Clarabel admittedly are a bit oversized, but Thomas and Percy are in scale. To compound this, the range's upcoming tankers, upon inspecting the promo images off Bachmann's website, are Graham Farish ones with some of the finer, added detail removed.
2) They run beautifully. Bachmann has taken what they've learned from the NG range and implemented it into the N scale range. Going off Percy, and given its fair to say Thomas likely shares the design features, the mechanism is nice and compact, the weight it part of the bodyshell, it's powered by a coreless motor which has a good sized brass flywheel and drives all brass gearing. The wheels all have bearings and running quality without even running it in is fantastic.
You can see pics of the chassis setup and a size comparison with a Bachmann Skarloey in the New Bachmann Chassis thread in the Narrow Gauge Modeling section of the forum. I also delved deeper into potential 009 applications and gave wheelbase measurements. 

[Trojmiasto]

On 24/01/2020 at 18:27, 87004 said:

I think Hornby did the right thing ditching the Thomas franchise.  Here's why...

 

I believe Thomas is really only popular with the smaller children.  Children who are probably not dexterous enough to assemble and run Thomas and his friends.  By the time they get to an age where they can handle the products and re-rail the vehicles, I think they've moved on to other things.   Eg super heroes, Lego, Minecraft etc.

 

I'm fortunate enough to be blessed with a grandchild who at the age of 7 says Thomas is 'Babyish', peer-group pressure I presume?  He even said the maybe we could repaint some of the stock so it isn't Thomas any more.  I'd bought him Percy and the mail train two or three years ago.  He loved launching it round the track at high speed and delighted in accidents.  There's an awful lot of accidents in the Thomas TV programmes!

 

Now after watching the Great Model Railway Challenge TV show he delights in using the mail train to deposit a model person on the track.  It always has to be a lady!  Have we produced a serial killer? ;-)

 

I have a colleague with a 3 year old son who is infatuated by Thomas - maybe the Thomas set will have to be moved on.

 

I too think the Thomas prices are a 'bit toppy' - £30 - £50 for a coach!  I guess that's partially due to the licence fee.

 

Also as an aside DCC is a must for children, they insist on running more than one train on the track.   I do think Hornby are barking up the wrong tree introducing the analogue controls that they did this year.  They really need to produce a value for money DCC system.  Railmaster does appeal to my grandson.

 

I'd be interested to hear what others think...

 

 

 

To try to go through some of the points above: 'I believe Thomas is really only popular with the smaller children...'. That is just one section of a very busy market. Small children now have a voice - it's not 'mum, I want that one' any more, they actually get it. People spend ridiculous amounts of money on toys for their kids - do a quick eBay search for Thomas and Friends on eBay, and barring the most recent releases you'll see some pretty wacky examples. Add into that a pretty active collectors market and a YouTube market that buys trains to produce reviews,and you've got a pretty healthy demand.

 

In terms of Thomas being babyish, children get to an age where they want to appear more grown up or developed. Admittedly, some children move on from Thomas - I recall being glued to it when really young, but by seven I'd found Thunderbirds (the original, not the new animated rubbish) and Power Rangers and also didn't have much time for Thomas. Doesn't mean that I don't have a Hornby version that I haven't run for years and a G Scale version that gets the odd cheeky outing now though!

 

The pricing is an absolute joke - there are no two ways around it. I'm currently working through Narcos on Netflix during lockdown - these prices scream of Bachmann's 'war tax' being fobbed off onto customers yet again for products they've already developed and that have been sold on one way or another previously on eBay, etc, for far less than the quoted RRPs. Their strategy has become one of gradual inflation at each pricing opportunity - you should be looking to entice children into the hobby with a cheap route of entry in a product they like. There are so many cheaply available Thomas's and Percy's available on eBay from Hornby, and I hope children go after these as opposed to swindling £75 out of the bank of mum and dad and lining these people's pockets. The G Scale versions are really nice visually, but are also quite cheap in terms of quality when compared to an LGB model.

 

I'm not a big fan of DCC myself, but I can see how in tight layouts for minimal effort it can provide an effective solution to allow children to run more than one loco. You'll have to offset this against Bachmann's 'war tax' cabinet though, who will no doubt want compensating for the privelige of fitting a chipboard of components and solder costing pence to produce...

 

[Phil Parker]

54 minutes ago, Trojmiasto said:

Their strategy has become one of gradual inflation at each pricing opportunity - you should be looking to entice children into the hobby with a cheap route of entry in a product they like.

 

They are a business. Their strategy should be to sell a popular product for a profit. It's not their job to "entice people into the hobby" by running at a loss just to please you or me. 

 

And before you reply "They can make them much more cheaply" - please include a price breakdown of a Thomas INCLUDING the fee paid to Mattel for each one. Or do you think they are allowed to use the brand for free? On the basis of what some UK rail companies charge for licensing, I suspect that bill is a significant chunk of the final cost. However, I didn't learn economics from Netflix.

[Phil Parker]

I keep meaning to post this, it's genius: