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Hornby Customer Care - Not!


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I have a couple of Hornby Mk 4 East Coast Carriages and decided I would like to install interior lights.

 

But I wasn't entirely sure how to remove the body. So I did the obvious and sent an online request to Hornby asking for advice.

 

I got a very prompt reply from Hornby Customer Care: 'the body on the coaches will unclip from the chassis'. There was no further detail

 

Not particularly helpful so I replied asking if they could be more specific. I also suggested a diagram might help.

 

Their reply to this request was that the preferred method was to insert a small thin blade to remove the body from the chassis. And they informed me they do not have any instructions.

 

Again not very helpful 

 

I can only conclude either Hornby did not know how to remove the chassis of one of their products or the staff member couldn't be bothered asking someone. Either way I am not impressed.

 

(On a brighter note I did eventually find a YouTube video that explained how to do it)

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And I think you have to say there is a limit to which manufacturers can  interact directly . You asked the question twice and got reasonable answers . Do you want someone to go into a computer program, draw a mk4 coach and put arrows on it as to where you get body off, I think that would be unreasonable. 

 

Other options would be to ask on Hornby forum or on here. I’ve done it when I repainted my mk4s but I can’t remember how, but the fact I don’t recall suggests to me it was relatively easy.  Have a go 

Edited by Legend
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I agree with Hilux and Legend, however there might be a good opportunity for Hornby or Bachmann to produce some simple Youtube videos showing some of the absolute basics like this for novices who are new to the hobby? Wouldn't cost much, might generate some positivity and help novices and also save on e-mail queries?

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Pretty unfair to criticise Hornby IMO when I doubt any other manufacturer would provide any more comment. If the interior lights were specifically sold for the Mk 4 then the vendor of the lights ought to be providing instructions. Clip fitted bodies are exceptionally common, best if possible not to use a sharp implement in case it slips and IME a chopped up credit / store card usually does the trick. On exceptionally tightly fitted bodies something thinner might be needed - letting a finger nail grow a bit long is one option that when used on the latest Heljan 33 managed to release that body sufficiently that a chopped up card could then be used. Depending on the number of clip fits a number of card bits will be needed to slip in the gap.

 

There is a thread on the Hornby forum https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/forum/how-to-remove-body-from-coaches/?p=1 which if it does cover the mk4 probably shows similar fixing arrangements.

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Why would Hornby know how to disassemble a "toy" 25yr old design, in order to fit a product that they are unable to design in? If anything they should have protected their products from unwanted damage by replying by saying that they cannot recommend this procedure.

 

Don't forget that in the late 70s/early 80s Hornby themselves used to offer kits to fit coach lighting, but this was when coaches screwed together and had clear plastic strip behind the bodysides for windows. And before internet answers were quickly available, Modellers developed and shared some extreme methods for getting into Lima MK3 coaches involving a slitting disc that wasn't recommend for beginners and even the Flush glaze manufacturer couldn't recommend as it was too destructive. 

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I recently purchased 'new' on a certain auction site the latest R3677 Duchess of Hamilton ... an absolute beauty, except, mine wasn't ...

As I'd already done what I shouldn't, and opened to check over, grease / oil if necessary - it certainly wasn't - if anything it was a little over-oiled - and had started fitting detil, the seller 'politely refused to accept a return - also related to my adding extra weight as I normally do ...

 

It was after I had already performed some 'non-destructive' work I finally decided to do what I should have done right at the beginning, and test it. IT SHORTS OUT. I tried several details - plunger positions to pick-up contacts, blade positions, etc. ... - and NOTHING. Separately powered, the motor was fine.

 

I mentioned this - initially a few times - to Hornby - who after some clarifications, sent a work order and instructed to send to them.

I removed the pieces of Pb I had added - only held with 2-sided 3M tape, packaged up, and sent off to them.

 

I received a call from them to confirm they had received it.

I received a call from the repairs engineer who went through what I had done, and what they had done, and that he 100% agreed with my observations, had removed a little solder here, added a little insulation there, and that it's now perfect.

 

It returned a couple of weeks later - perfect.

 

THANK YOU Hornby.

 

Just thought I'd share my experience with them.

 

Al.

Edited by atom3624
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52 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

I agree with Hilux and Legend, however there might be a good opportunity for Hornby or Bachmann to produce some simple Youtube videos showing some of the absolute basics like this for novices who are new to the hobby? Wouldn't cost much, might generate some positivity and help novices and also save on e-mail queries?

Then you risk liability for those who damage it hamfistedly  or injure themselves, and seek to blame their instructions.

 

They are selling a rtr product, like a TV, Microwave etc. Those vendors don't ship how to disassemble videos either and for good reason.

 

The safe method is a support network of service dealers, or their own service centre for those trained to do it.

 

If modellers want to do their own creativity, then theirs a magazine, forum, video network of those like minded who take their own risks and liabilities for doing so, as the original poster indicated.

 

Remember the person replying to the email/phone at Hornby has no idea of the age, skill or suitability of the individual asking the question... sending an email to a 4 year old to use a scapel to open a coach body would hardly be safe advice - who are they to know whom they are corresponding with.

 

Edited by adb968008
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I asked Hornby how to get the bodies off certain coaches - listed by R numbers - and I got a simple explanation of where to look in general for clips and how many, etc.

 

I took pictures as I dismantled them for reference. Some of these can be seen in the coach lighting ‘how-to’ articles on my linked website.

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4 hours ago, Ssamm said:

I have a couple of Hornby Mk 4 East Coast Carriages and decided I would like to install interior lights.

 

But I wasn't entirely sure how to remove the body. So I did the obvious and sent an online request to Hornby asking for advice.

 

I got a very prompt reply from Hornby Customer Care: 'the body on the coaches will unclip from the chassis'. There was no further detail

 

Not particularly helpful so I replied asking if they could be more specific. I also suggested a diagram might help.

 

Their reply to this request was that the preferred method was to insert a small thin blade to remove the body from the chassis. And they informed me they do not have any instructions.

 

Again not very helpful 

 

I can only conclude either Hornby did not know how to remove the chassis of one of their products or the staff member couldn't be bothered asking someone. Either way I am not impressed.

 

(On a brighter note I did eventually find a YouTube video that explained how to do it)

Oh dear. What a shame. Never mind. There is more to life than this sort of guff.

P.

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9 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Then you risk liability for those who damage it hamfistedly  or injure themselves, and seek to blame their instructions.

 

They are selling a rtr product, like a TV, Microwave etc. Those vendors don't ship how to disassemble videos either and for good reason.

 

I don't really buy that. If that were the case, why does Hornby include user instructions on fitting DCC to its locos?

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10 minutes ago, truffy said:

 

I don't really buy that. If that were the case, why does Hornby include user instructions on fitting DCC to its locos?

IIRC Dapol used to (I don't know the current stance) say that dismantling to fit a decoder voided the warranty!

Edited by melmerby
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59 minutes ago, truffy said:

 

I don't really buy that. If that were the case, why does Hornby include user instructions on fitting DCC to its locos?

Because thats a supported option, its designed to allow it.

 

The above example is not designed to support lights, of unknown origin. Whilst its a simple function and oodles of companies make 3rd party products to do it, none are approved by Hornby, Ive not seen Hornby endorse any products that are not their own, so i’d therefore assume its not supported and at your own risk.

 

someone asked how to access a legacy product, they were told it was possible and given basic info to establish it is possible. I think thats sufficient. The rest is upto the modeller to learn, and as mentioned theres a world of resources out there.

 

I have seen a light board melt a coach roof and start it smoking to the point of needing to pour water on one coach at an exhibition a few years back, as it was heading towards burning, quite sure no one wants to own the risk of a recommending a 3rd party rogue resistor burning their product.  It literally took seconds for a hole to melt in the roof and start smoking, hence for the last decade Ive always had water at hand just in case.

Edited by adb968008
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To remove clip fit bodies, etc, where ever possible I use a selection of good quality pallet knives, these are very thin, spread the load  and have rounded (not sharp edges).  To keep (wedge) the housing open, paper/cardboard/plasticard are used depending on the circumstance.

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34 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Because thats a supported option, its designed to allow it.

 

The above example is not designed to support lights, of unknown origin. Whilst its a simple function and oodles of companies make 3rd party products to do it, none are approved by Hornby, Ive not seen Hornby endorse any products that are not their own, so i’d therefore assume its not supported and at your own risk.

 

someone asked how to access a legacy product, they were told it was possible and given basic info to establish it is possible. I think thats sufficient. The rest is upto the modeller to learn, and as mentioned theres a world of resources out there.

 

I have seen a light board melt a coach roof and start it smoking to the point of needing to pour water on one coach at an exhibition a few years back, as it was heading towards burning, quite sure no one wants to own the risk of a recommending a 3rd party rogue resistor burning their product.  It literally took seconds for a hole to melt in the roof and start smoking, hence for the last decade Ive always had water at hand just in case.

 

I'm not for a second advocating that Hornby should be supplying instructions on taking apart coaches to fit lighting of unknown origin (although taking apart coaches for the erstwhile harmless addition of passengers?)

 

I cannot currently check instructions as to whether they specifically recommend one brand of decoder (I wonder which one they would?...and how many people would, rightly, choose differently?)

 

But there's an incongruity there.

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If coaches were designed to be dismantled, they would supply instructions.

 

further, if the manufacturer intended them to be dismantled they would design them that way.

 

I for one would like Hornby to invert their coach toolings and make a moulded frame, ends and body sides, with a separate roof held by tiny neo magnets, for just this purpose as it would be great for kids.

But as long as the chassis is adaptable to several coach bodies, I guess its cheaper not too.

 

I’m not saying they say no, nor are they discouraging modellers doing what modellers do, or suggest they are making it impossible. I’m just offering a different perspective as to why they might not roll out red carpet solutions encouraging it, rather than just bashing them for not doing so, on a product they designed 25 years ago.

 

I recall Dapols 150/155/124s bodies were glued to the frames making access highly difficult...and that came with disassembly instructions to insert a metal weight over the motor, requiring a knife and how to order a spare chassis. When it came to the 12 wheel diner, they actually supplied a spare chassis in the box with the rtr coach.

 

Edited by adb968008
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Hornby coaches are designed to fit lights though. If not, then why did they used to sell the lights until recently? 

 

Probably superseded by far superior systems now. I also believe most of the wheels used on carriages are designed for use with pickups.

 

 

The OP is just pointing out his experience I don't see what all the fuss is about. 

 

BTW all electrical goods have repair instructions either included or available online. You've just got to know where to find them.

 

Example.

 

https://www.philips.co.uk/c-m/consumer-support

 

 

 

Jason

 

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I can't agree with the OP's original tone or the assertion that Hornby's Customer Care is lacking because they don't provide instructions in the fairly simple matter of dismantling coaches, especially as they provided the correct guidance to him.  But there is a point to made here; it is increasingly difficult to get inside vehicles to add details or passengers, or crews in the case of locomotives.  If you think getting into a Hornby coach is hard, try putting crew in the cab of a Bachmann 4575!  

 

Removable roofs on locos, especially tank locos and modern image including dmus, to get into the cabs and easier access to the interior of coaches would be a very welcome step in my view.  Modern RTR modern image locos and coaches are moulded as single piece bodyshells that preclude this, and presumably a cost increase would be involved in providing removable roof or roof sections.

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1 hour ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Peco 009 coaches and wagons have removable roofs.

Probably because they've been around for a good while now, and date from the time when separate roof mouldings were the norm.  I don't know a lot about plastic moulding technique, but I would imagine that it was easier to produce coaches in this way back in the day; the chassis, sides/ends assembly, and roof were the main components.  

 

The big difference now, I suspect, is CAD, which has made it much easier to design moulds or toolings that can make the bodyshell in a single unit (though some quite elderly models are made in this way; the LIma siphon comes to mind, probably because I've been working one up recently).  There is an advantage in having a single piece bodyshell, actually several, including structural rigidity, but the main one is that it reduces the number of operations required in the assembly plant, which in turn helps keep a lid on labour costs and production times.

 

My ex Airfix coaches seem to bridge the gap, with the auto trailers having a bodyshell with the floor moulded integrally but a separate roof, and the B set being a 'roof based' bodyshell, so this is not a particularly recent phenomenon or necessarily entirely predicated on CAD. 

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I remember removing bodies from the Bachmann 4CEP and Heljan 33. I thought the 4CEP was bad but one of my Heljan 33's was worse. I was convinced that the body would not survive the brute force I had to apply, I decided to just go for it and hope for the best and eventually it was OK but it was a nerve wracking job. It annoys me that easy fit DCC sockets like the Bachmann Desiro are still very much the exception. Personally I would rather have a DCC access flap on the underside than more detail which will never be seen when the model is on the track, but that's just me. 

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