Linux based JMRI Decoder Pro

[melmerby]

Hi all

I am in the process of making a small standalone Decoder Pro unit.

The PC that will operate it is a (now somewhat obsolete) PCDuino V2 with 4Gb memory

It's OS is Ubuntu 12.07 and it includes a dedicated system that runs Arduino C++ programs.

However all I am really interested in is installing Java so that I can install JMRI

The problem is there doesn't seem to be much in the way of system commands

There is a program called LX Terminal in which you can enter Linux commands but that wasn't how I installed java last time I did it on Linux.

It doesn't help because I am somewhat rusty with Linux

Any suggestions?

 

BTW the capability of this device which cost me IIRC £18 is such that I am posting this on it using a Chrome browser through it's built in Wi-Fi

 

[Robin2]

I would expect OpenSource Java to be installed as a normal part of Ubuntu. Have you tried typing java --version in your terminal?

 

If not i should be possible to install it using the Ubuntu package manager. 

 

On this Linux laptop I use Oracle Java downloaded from the Oracle website - but I don't know anything about the PCDuino hardware. At £18 there may in fact be "too little of a good thing"

 

...R

[Hroth]

Must say that I wouldn't have used a pcDuino, which is a fairly elderly (and not that well supported) platform.  Admittedly a new Raspberry Pi 3 would cost twice as much but it does have a thriving user community and (mostly!) up-to-date software.  Java is preinstalled in the current Raspbian OS but might require an update as its evidently an older version.  However I've not had any problems running JMRI on a Pi2 which, connected to a Sprog 3, is an effective DCC control system.

 

With an elderly wireless hub and  Engine Driver running on one or more equally obsolete android phones , what more could you want? 

 

[melmerby]

£18 was the "selling off" price when Maplin went down the pan, originally they were quite a lot more (£40-£50?)

By the time I bought it they had been "retired" by the originators and Maplin had them on a discount which gradually increased as the final day loomed.

 

One problem might be the processor (which is an ARM Cortex A10), as I found out when I tried to update Chromium to a later full blown Debian suitable Chrome (processor not supported was the answer). It does seem there is a later Chromium to be had, however.

 

It's so long since I did any Linux that I can't remember much about the commands

It has a "LX" DE which is presumably where the LX Terminal comes into it, seems like a vary basic version of K  DE

 

I was drawn to it as it is Arduino compatible but with all the built in peripherals to make it a stand alone, so no plugging into a PC to do the Arduino programming.

It has a "Synaptic" package manager which asks for a password when you try to use it.

[melmerby]

16 minutes ago, Hroth said:

Must say that I wouldn't have used a pcDuino, which is a fairly elderly (and not that well supported) platform. 

 

But at £18?

I did check what info was still online before I bought it and there seems to be enough, although now dormant.

[Nigelcliffe]

I agree with Hroth,  it seems like a difficult path with a poorly supported device, when a newer and cheap device is available "off the shelf".   A bit like spending ages on a DCC conversion of 1980's Mainline loco with motor live to pickups, ropey motor, inadequate pickups, when a newer model runs better, has a guarantee and comes with a decoder socket. 

 

For a Raspberry PI, the work involved in installing JMRI is really trivial - go to Steve Todd's website, download the JMRI SD card image file, and use that to boot the PI.

 

 

On the pcDuino, if you can't get the package manager to work (due to password), etc., then I think its stuck with the software on it.

 

 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Robin2 said:

I would expect OpenSource Java to be installed as a normal part of Ubuntu. Have you tried typing java --version in your terminal?

 

...R

I have now checked.

It is version 1.6.0.27.

[Nigelcliffe]

Java 1.6 means you're stuck at JMRI release 3.10.1 (Jan 2015, and eight major releases out of date).  
Unless you can get to Java 1.8 (or an equivalent open JDK), I think its a waste of effort. 

 

I think the PI is simpler.

 

- Nigel

 

[Robin2]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

It has a "Synaptic" package manager which asks for a password when you try to use it.

That's because you need super-user privileges to use Synaptic. I presume you created a password when you installed Ubuntu. If you can't remember it I don't know how you can discover it. Presumably you could re-install Ubuntu. Or you could install  a copy of Oracle Java without needing super-user privileges. However if you value your time an RPi might be the cheaper option.

 

if you did not create a password then there may be a default password - worth Googling "ubuntu default password". Or maybe it is just "password", or just needs a carriage-return.

 

...R

Edited April 22, 2019 by Robin2

[D9020 Nimbus]

You need super-user privilege to use Synaptic or to install software from the command line but it is your user password that you need to type.

 

I agree with those who recommend the RPi 3 instead. You will almost certainly be unable to obtain an up-to-date version of Java via the package manager for your system. Are you sure it is Ubuntu 12.07? AFAIK there is 12.04 and 12.10; 12.04 was an LTS (long time support version) but neither will still be getting security updates.

[melmerby]

Why would I want a RPi as that would mean further outlay?

The Ubuntu is pre-installed and I found the user password is "Ubuntu"!

The package manager is showing a lot of available updates, so I think I will do those before anything else.

Using Linux is starting to come back to me.

It should be able to run later versions as the processor is not obsolete and there is 4GB of flash memory to play with as well as at least 32Gb of SD card storage

 

[Hroth]

As you've already got it then use it!  If you can get it updated enough to run JMRI then you're on a winner!

But as (I think) a Punch cartoon had it, "if you want to get there, I wouldn't start from here..." . Good luck!

[melmerby]

4 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

 Are you sure it is Ubuntu 12.07? AFAIK there is 12.04 and 12.10; 12.04 was an LTS (long time support version) but neither will still be getting security updates.

You are right. it is 12.04 but the tatty instructions say it is pre-loaded with 12.07!

[melmerby]

It would seem I can upgrade Java to at least Version 9 on Ubuntu 12.04, so just need to do the update.

I've already updated Chromium to the latest version.

 

Maybe I should see whether I can update Linux to something later as well?

Edited April 22, 2019 by melmerby
Clarification

[melmerby]

I assume that I can update the Kernel and the Distro, which should come first?

Currently when I look in Synaptic I see loads of kernels, most seem to be old versions.

I imagine I should be able to upgrade 12.04 to 14.04 to? Each presumably would have a later Java version included.

 

Linux seems to be light on requirements so maybe this PCDuino could run with an up to date OS?

 

[Robin2]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

I assume that I can update the Kernel and the Distro, which should come first?

 

I suggest you get advice on a Linux (Ubuntu) Forum before doing either in case your installation has some features specific to your unusual hardware that may not be in another version.

 

...R

[D9020 Nimbus]

The hardware requirements depend on the desktop (GUI) in use. The current version of Gnome uses more memory than previous versions—depending on the capability of your hardware, an installation of Lubuntu (LXDE-based) might be a better option.

 

The version of Java you can install doesn't depend on the kernel. The versions you can install through Synsptic depend on the version of the distro. You could always install the binary version that you could download from Oracle, though you may have more work to do to have it preferred to any other installation you may have.

[melmerby]

20 hours ago, Robin2 said:

I suggest you get advice on a Linux (Ubuntu) Forum before doing either in case your installation has some features specific to your unusual hardware that may not be in another version.

 

...R

I did a search to see what had gone previously on the PCDuino - not a lot!

Seems that even though when it first came out and had pretty good reviews not many took to it and most queries on Ubuntu forum went unanswered.

Strange considering what you got for your money:

Fully operating Lubuntu system with LX DE.

LAN, Wi-Fi, HDMI

1GB system Ram, 4Gb program Ram, Arduino IDE, Python .etc. etc.

 

EDIT I found the purcase receipt for it, it was only £15.99 not £17.99 as I though.

Worth just for the play factor!

 

1 hour ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

The hardware requirements depend on the desktop (GUI) in use. The current version of Gnome uses more memory than previous versions—depending on the capability of your hardware, an installation of Lubuntu (LXDE-based) might be a better option.

 

The version of Java you can install doesn't depend on the kernel. The versions you can install through Synsptic depend on the version of the distro. You could always install the binary version that you could download from Oracle, though you may have more work to do to have it preferred to any other installation you may have.

As you can see from the above it is already an LXDE Lubuntu.

The biggest problem is the processor which is an Arm8 v7 (32bit) and there doesn't seem to be much development for it

I have found that Oracle do a version of Java 8 121 for that hardware which needs a minimum of Ubuntu 12.04 to run, so I think that's what I will install and see whether the later versions of JMRI will run on it. Unfortunately you can only download it if you open an account but that's free.

I'm not bothered about other software, what it has is good enough.

Edited April 25, 2019 by melmerby

[Robin2]

If the PCDuino can boot from a USB stick you might like to try Puppy Linux . It is designed for low-resource PCs and can run entirely from a USB stick so you could try it without upsetting your existing system. I used TahrPup as my main operating system for quite a while - it is based on Ubuntu 14.04.

 

I'm not sure that the newer XenialPup is well supported - it seems to me the momentum behind Puppy Linux had been lost. IMHO there was little point upgrading to  a newer version of Ubuntu if the main purpose is to support older hardware. All PCs from the last 4 or 5 years can easily support a complete Linux installation.

 

...R