All reserved seats?

[jjb1970]

Just saw this one:

 

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/virgin-trains-tells-passengers-they-must-have-reserved-seats/ar-BBWexx7?li=AAnZ9Ug&ocid=DELLDHP

[John M Upton]

Never going to happen...

[TomJ]

What happens when they cancel a train and everyone is encouraged to travel on the next one..

[woodenhead]

Sounds like a plan to cancel trains rather than run services that meet customer's needs.

 

What happens if say 70% of what they deem an economical number of passengers book?  Do they cancel and force the passengers to re-book.

 

 

[TomJ]

What happens when they cancel a train and everyone is encouraged to travel on the next one..

[Wickham Green]

How far in advance would you need to book ? ............ perhaps Virgin Vermin have plans to control when Granny gets taken into hospital and needs a visit !

Edited April 24, 2019 by Wickham Green
advanced too far

[MarkC]

As Vermin are about to lose theor franchise, is this simple troublemaking?

[Dunsignalling]

Grandstanding. They know they'll never have to implement it so they're stirring the pot for their successor.

[br2975]

Discussed this lunchtime by Jeremy Whine on BBC Radio 2.

.

He confirmed how ill-informed and simplistic he was on the subject  when talking to Christian Wolmar and those who 'phoned in.

.

Serves me right for not having anything better to do.

Edited April 24, 2019 by br2975

[mdvle]

6 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Grandstanding. They know they'll never have to implement it so they're stirring the pot for their successor.

 

Doubtful, as the successor won't being using the Virgin branding so it won't really transfer.

 

More likely this is aimed at the government, perhaps reflecting behind the scenes frustrations that with the loss of the franchise and being somewhat locked out at the moment someone has decided there is nothing to lose by letting it go public.

[locoholic]

I wonder how long it will be before we have to book a space on the M25 (pre-paid, of course)? I'm sure Beardy would like to have a go at running a motorway.

[dhjgreen]

From the BBC web site:

 

"Its proposal is part of Virgin's submission to a government-commissioned review into the rail system."

[Zomboid]

You'd think that by now they'd have some idea how railways actually work. It's just a bit of nonsense PR, which has succeeded in getting people talking about Virgin trains.

 

Whilst the idea of having all-reserved trains might have some merit for some situations (and happens in some countries, such as on some shinkansen services, and eurostar), running a whole railway network like an airline would be a real worst of both worlds solution.

[ejstubbs]

1 hour ago, dhjgreen said:

From the BBC web site:

 

"Its proposal is part of Virgin's submission to a government-commissioned review into the rail system."

 

Indeed.  It is a suggestion put forward for the review: they're not "telling" anyone that they "must have" anything.

 

(I suspect that HS2 passenger services may operate in something similar to the proposed fashion.  I believe some high-speed passenger services on the continent e.g. TGV already operate this way.)

[Spitfire2865]

Its how Amtrak has run all its services in the US.

You book your specific train and route and you are guaranteed* a seat.  

 

(*train may be oversold, Amtrak® does not guarantee passengers a seat for the duration of their trip.)

[Legend]

It could make sense as long as you could book a seat say up to 5 mins before train departs . Thus retaining flexibility of when you can catch train.  Lets face it most of us (agreed not all) have mobiles /tablets, we can book a taxi, uber, order a carry out . Why not a train seat?  But they obviously would need to have a very efficient up to the minute booking service , and how would they load trains? Restricted to max seating capacity or would they go 110% and assume some standing?

[ardbealach]

And how many seats would be empty with those who have reserved their seats and not turned up?   Or will they over-book each service and bump off the unlucky ones - airline style? (AM)

[phil-b259]

The reason the TGV has 'obligatory reservation' policy is simply they didn't want folk standing in the isles of a 150mph train - such folk increase station dell times, make internal movement within the train a pain and a sudden deceleration which would send folk flying. It IS NOT a profit making device for SNCF as such or an attempting to 'ape' the airlines business model, etc.

 

This is why TGV reservations can be made up 5mins before the trains departure from the station.

 

In the case of Eurostar there is the added complication of emigration / customs / security screening and making sure all passengers have an allocated seat helps smooth the process.

 

Given the nature of HS2* (a 200mph limited stop service) its entirely appropriate that standing passengers are not permitted and thus a compulsory seat reservation (issued at the same time as the travel ticket is purchased) is required to travel.

 

*Note, once off HS2 - then allowing standing passengers is more acceptable, particularly if HS2 trains are displacing 'ordinary' services (e.g. Wigan - Scotland)

[Arun Sharma]

The system Virgin propose is of course currently used pretty successfully on National Express coaches up and down the country.

However, as I understand it, [and I could well be mistaken or behind the times here], in the present regulations regarding rail travel only those passengers with first class tickets can demand a seat. Second class ticket holders may always travel but have no right to expect that a seat may be available for them, 

Thus the concept of passengers standing for long periods is deemed perfectly acceptable under the current terms and conditions of rail travel. I don't know whether they still exist anywhere but every station used to have a large printed notice resembling the front page of a newspaper that had these T&Cs displayed. 

[jim.snowdon]

Several decades ago, SNCF certainly had some services that were reservation only. I'm not certain that they might not also have had a supplementary fare, but then it appeared to be case that European railway ticketing worked the opposite way round to UK practice. Instead of an expensive base fare with reductions for off peak travel, the basic fare was relatively low but faster or peak time trains would command a supplement to the base fare.

 

Jim

[caradoc]

This is an utterly ludicrous proposal, presumably dreamed up by someone who has never actually travelled by train in the UK.

 

One part of the scheme is to discourage use of long distance services by commuters by altering stopping patterns; So would Virgin no longer stop say at Coventry or Birmingham International, or Stockport ? Or, to avoid loss of revernue from those stations, perhaps only passengers with reserved seats would be allowed to join Virgin trains, but given that other operators serve those stations that would effectively be unenforceable; nor could staff check every ticket in the short journey time between say Stockport and Manchester Piccadilly (to surcharge non-reserved passengers). Or maybe, taking the airline analogy further, perhaps just one door of the train would be opened with staff checking each passenger joining ? Which would not do much for station dwell times !

 

Some trains in the UK are of course already reservation-only, such as Sleeper services, for good reason, but one of the major advantages of rail travel over coaches or airlines is the walk-on facility; Anyone travelling a long distance can of course, and perhaps should, reserve a seat, but the flexibility of being able to join any train, with the proviso that you may have to stand (which people may accept, particularly for a short journey), must remain.

 

Personally I have always regarded Virgin as a good train operator, both as a passenger and in my former role dealing with them at work, but these ideas are really quite ridiculous.

 

[John M Upton]

The problem is that the average UK railway passenger often travels on a whim, wants to purchase a paper ticket from a real live human before getting on the first train departing from A towards B irrespective of whether it is a Pendolino or a Nodding Donkey. 

 

This 'proposal' is just DfT friendly piffle of the first water.

[Fat Controller]

31 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

Several decades ago, SNCF certainly had some services that were reservation only. I'm not certain that they might not also have had a supplementary fare, but then it appeared to be case that European railway ticketing worked the opposite way round to UK practice. Instead of an expensive base fare with reductions for off peak travel, the basic fare was relatively low but faster or peak time trains would command a supplement to the base fare.

 

Jim

The priciple with the TGV  tickets was a base ticket, with a supplementary ticket for the seat reservation, priced according to perceived demand. What would happen is that people attending meetings would get the person making the bookings get reservations for perhaps three different trains, allowing for possible finishing times. This obviously meant several reservations not being taken up, and therefore empty seats. SNCF very quickly changed the procedure, so that the controleur could issue 'real-time' reservations, even if the train was supposedly full. The onus was, and still is, for the passenger to inform the controleur of their presence; failure to do so would be treated in the same way as not having a ticket.

[Oldddudders]

BR had a number of trains for which reservations were said to be compulsory. Great Western have operated something similar in first class on trains I have joined in high season. Yawn. 

[jonny777]

You appear to need the Night Riviera