DJ Models Announcement 01/05/19

[66738]

So, how’s your announcement working out for you right now  Dave? 

I feel It could probably have gone better. 

Better wording was required. If he had just said that his own CADs were protected from others using them particular CADs, then everyone would have understood and have got it. The ramble made out that DJ had stamped his ‘hands off, it’s mine’ on those that he has protected, and any other models he chose to take on, would also not be allowed to be modelled by anyone else. 

And don’t get me started on him announcing his announcement! 

66738

 

[m0rris]

I think the overriding question for me is why? Why does Dave think this move is a good idea? Why does Dave have so many issues with organisations/people that others do not? And why, despite all of the money invested in his projects is there little to no progress, whilst more projects are announced?

 

I have a beautiful N gauge Pendolino, once upon a time this was a DJM project. Given the goings on of late, I have zero confidence he would ever have delivered such a project. He's utterly lost my confidence.

[TravisM]

It almost amounts to Hornby’s threatening legal action to DJ Models and Accrascale because, even though Lima produced theirs first, Hornby’s own the tooling and between them produced the first 4mm Class 92’s.  I hope that made sense as it’s been a long day and I’m shattered lol

[black and decker boy]

23 minutes ago, Davexoc said:

 

 

Sour grapes and spilt milk come to mind.....

I think a certain record producer has already claimed IP on that livery and he does know the legal system very well . . . . 

[letterspider]

22 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Wow, just wow!

I am reminded of when MTH Models in the USA tried to sue the NMRA over some digital protocols that MTH claimed were "theirs" (which they lost!). This created a lot of bad feeling that has endured for over twenty years now, I for one, would never buy anything from them!

I think people some twenty years in the future may well say something like "remember that bloke from Liverpool who tried to run a model railway business"? "what was 'is name"? ("Derek? Doug? I forget!").

 

I have never seen someone shoot themselves in the foot so spectacularly. 

 

Unfortunately he has also stranded his crowdfunders as well.

[Garry D100]

[BR Blue]

6 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

It almost amounts to Hornby’s threatening legal action to DJ Models and Accrascale because, even though Lima produced theirs first, Hornby’s own the tooling and between them produced the first 4mm Class 92’s.  I hope that made sense as it’s been a long day and I’m shattered lol

Exactly

[Markwj]

I agree if Dave had made clear the IP he was referring to was the cads he had produced already then said something like 'I've got an idea what if we all did this to protect our models etc' then I might have some sympathy.

It seems an incredibly bitter rant with fingers pointing blame at everyone but himself. Is he suggesting that when he was commissioned by various shops to produce models they later dropped him but continued to use his developed cads. Is this true or not or just his perception.

We may never know but I think one of the shops dropped him due to lack of progress.

 

so much for the announcement but I was right, wrong Scale ,Gauge and Livery for me and my wallet rests easy!

[Garry D100]

My real sympathies and concern goes to those who have money tied up in crowd funding projects with DJ Models.

What uncertain and worrying times it must be for some or all of them.

I was very close to investing in the APT OO project but something didnt sit right with me with the risk factor so i discounted it.

Glad I did now as I have enough things to worry about but a very sad state of affairs.

[Great Western]

I’d assume everyone who has invested money in the many “you fund it, and I might get round to making it” models have now lost their money in effect - who is going to be stupid enough now to pay further monies to progress such models?

 

Pitty all of us who rang the alarm bell months ago weren’t listened to.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Great Western

[Markwj]

Just now, Great Western said:

I’d assume everyone who has invested money in the many “you fund it, and I might get round to making it” models had no lost their money in effect ?

 

Pitty all of us who rang the alarm bell months ago weren’t listened to.

Well he hasn't said the models have been cancelled so in theory we crowdfunders should get a request for the next instalment.

 

whether I pay it is another matter!

[royaloak]

1 hour ago, Ravenser said:

 

He did say in his pdf that any rival manufacturer would have to come up with a substantially better design to escape his IP

 

If he has simply registered the right to all model 14xxs with a dodgy mech, then the field is open to anyone who can make one that runs well.

It would be up to Dave to prove beyond reasonable doubt they used his drawings, cad cams etc, something no major car or motorcycle manufacturer has managed to do with these thinly veiled copies the Chinese churn out by the thousands, and if Ford, Nissan, BMW, Honda etc cant do it I very much doubt a small firm like DJM will, sorry Dave but if you consider this to be a better use of your time than getting on with any of your existing projects then I will finally accept my £250 deposit on the APT is lost for ever.

 

You cannot put an IP on a design, only your own interpretation of that design (your own drawings, cads etc) and there is nothing stopping another manufacturer producing their own interpretation of the same design as long as they use their own drawings, cads etc,although that doesnt appear to be the case in China where they quite happily 'borrow' other peoples paperwork, allegedly!

 

Even if 'they' do borrow your drawings it is up to you to prove it and as the old saying goes, it doesnt matter what you know, it only matters what you can prove, and that is where the problems start.!

Edited May 1, 2019 by royaloak

[Great Western]

Maybe this is some kind of suicide by cop, make this announcement which effectively kills off any future crowdfunding streams, then blames you all for killing his business as a whole?

 

Anyone who still sends money really needs their head read.     

[Legend]

1 hour ago, Mike Harvey said:

If this episode leads to the final demise of DJModels, I am sure it will be all the nasty people on RMweb who will be accused of being the cause of it. But I am struggling to find active support anywhere for the business approach in today's announcement. I am reminded of the fateful speech given by Gerald Ratner which sent his business into terminal decline. 

 

 

 

I think Mike sums this up precisely. This is Dave’s  Ratners moment .  I can’t see how he can come back after this . 

 

I have always been wary for a variety of reasons . The chopping and changing of plans , the accounts business , various statements on whether deposits are refundable, the washing of his dirty linen over the loss of factory. What comes across is someone who has suffered in business and is now an embittered person.  I believe he is a genuine guy who has boundless enthusiasm for model railways , but it’s not backed up by business acumen.  Actually I feel quite sorry for him Now. I think he is deluded.  

 

What was was he thinking?  He really needed a friend or associate to take him aside and say ‘really Dave ? Are you sure about this? ‘

Edited May 1, 2019 by Legend

[royaloak]

11 minutes ago, Great Western said:

I’d assume everyone who has invested money in the many “you fund it, and I might get round to making it” models have now lost their money in effect - who is going to be stupid enough now to pay further monies to progress such models?

 

Pity all of us who rang the alarm bell months ago weren’t listened to.

I concur, although I did 'invest' in the APT on the strength of Daves reputation.

 

I did listen but as it was a now or never situation and it was a model I really wanted I decided to give it a punt, nothing ventured, nothing gained etc, but in this case I think setting fire to 25 £10* notes might have been more productive.

 

* yes I know they are now plastic so wouldnt burn but you get the gist of the sentiment.

[Legend]

Doesnt Hornby have the IP to produce a model of an APT in OO? 

[Trains4U]

2 minutes ago, Legend said:

Doesnt Hornby have the IP to produce a model of an APT in OO? 

 

Anyone can produce an APT in OO if they have the means - Just as long as they don't use DJ Models CADs

Edited May 1, 2019 by Trains4U

[LaGrange]

This is someones intellectual property

[Leicester Thumper]

I'm late to the party, as always (and I'm back once more) 

What in the actual is going on? 

I have read the announcement but my brain is still trying to digest it.... has the bloke lost the ruddy plot? 

 

I'm so glad I never preordered the baby deltic or the clayton in N, I probably would never see the money back. I really hope this doesn't start a literal IP war with other manufacturers.

[Brinkly]

Speaks volumes that the last time he logged in was October of last year. Smacks of run, rant and hide to me. 

 

I really feel for members who have contributed to his crowdfunding schemes; he should be getting on with current commitments. As for the £250,000 the company accounts should show this and as others have said, it doesn't appear to. 

 

Regards,

 

Nick.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Brinkly
Typo

[Ouroborus]

I see the first competitor to report a metaphorical two fingers to this announcement has recently appeared

[Meld9003]

I hope he's checked his contract or he may not own the IP he has registered - I believe some factories will retain the IP but give you a cheaper price because of this. Alternatively, it may be part of a staged payment plan leading to production. The only point to this that I can see is if he has heard that someone is talking to the factory he is in dispute with about taking over the models. There is no other valid reason and it doesn't stop anyone else producing a model he has registered - only from using his IP to do it.

[Trains4U]

1 minute ago, Leicester Thumper said:

I'm late to the party, as always (and I'm back once more) 

What in the actual is going on? 

I have read the announcement but my brain is still trying to digest it.... has the bloke lost the ruddy plot? 

 

I'm so glad I never preordered the baby deltic or the clayton in N, I probably would never see the money back. I really hope this doesn't start a literal IP war with other manufacturers.

 

It would be the IP war equivalent of the Anglo Zanzibar war (look it up)

[Leicester Thumper]

2 minutes ago, Brinkly said:

 I really feel for members who have contributed to his crowdfunding schemes; he should be getting on with current commitments. As for the £250,000 the company accounts should show this and as others have said, it doesn't appear to. 

 

Alas, I feel the same. The real question is what chance do people have of getting their money back? surely there's a lot of legal obligations to refund the money? I could be wrong on that, But I feel that this isn't the last we will hear of the crowdfunding issue

[Leicester Thumper]

1 minute ago, Trains4U said:

 

It would be the IP war equivalent of the Anglo Zanzibar war (look it up)

 

I shall indeed, I like me a bit of History! 

 

regards.