DJ Models Announcement 01/05/19

[Vistisen]

7 hours ago, Clearwater said:

Eg

DJ models is an established brand in the UK model rail market. DJM is noted for

*successful delivery of crowdfunded models

*strong relationship with all aspects of the model value chain from Chinese manufacturing facilities to uk retail shops

*strong pipeline of uk outline models across a range of scales with a significant number of crowdfunders signed up backed by substantial cash deposits

*development of innovative award winning designs generally recognised as amongst the strongest in the uk market

*strong following for DJM products on social media plarforms 

 

Having developed the business from scratch in 2014, DJ now believes the time is right to add an additional shareholder to the business to fund the working capital outflow required to deliver the strong pipeline.  A full shareholders agreement is available to bidders reaching the next round of the process and is expected to afford an investor the usual rights associated with such investments.”

 

Edit - needs a few “uniques” sprinkling in etc etc etc

I'm sorry to be at bit thick, but is this satire? or sarcasm? 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Vistisen

[jjb1970]

The comparison with Rapido is quite telling. Jason Shron is obviously nuts about trains and has a particular gift for communicating with customers but he also appears to have a very astute head on his shoulders and a mastery of what is necessary to run a successful model business. Behind the affable and clownish exterior Jason Shron is as sharp as a tack and nobody's fool. Dave Jones seems to have the enthusiasm, but as has been noted already not the business acumen. The difference in product is telling to, Rapido models have established a reputation which is second to none and won the trust of their customers, which is an essential part of their manufacture to pre-order numbers business model. I'm not a fan of pre-ordering, but I would have confidence to pre-order from Rapido as their track record has built up trust that they know what they are doing and will deliver. Based on what DJM has made to date I wouldn't pre-order (let alone crowd fund) as despite the boast about setting new standards I haven't been that impressed. If you want to build a business based on people committing at the front end of a project then you need a particularly strong record in product delivery.

Dave Jones bringing in a partner capable of running the business would be a way out to turn things around, or just finding a buyer. The question is whether he recognises that he really needs somebody with the skills to run the mechanics of a business.

[Ravenser]

19 minutes ago, Vistisen said:

I'm sorry to be at bit thick, but is this satire? or sarcasm? 

 

Yes, on adverts offering businesses for sale...

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

31 minutes ago, spikey said:

 

Eh?  Are we talking about the same DJM who made the 14XX and the J94? 

 

The J94 was decent. As was the Class 71.

 

But not as good as the rather excellent O2. That's up there with the best of Hornby and Bachmann IMO.

 

 

Jason

[Roy L S]

Hi David

 

Rapido has an established track record of products in their own name, Canadian and US, as well as some amazing British prototype commissions - Stirling Single and J70 just two examples. However they have a design team in Canada and their own factory or factories in China and employ their own people, managing production from end to end which is very different from DJM.

 

Regards

 

Roy 

[Persephone]

21 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The J94 was decent.

 

 

Jason

 

Indeed it was. But only once you had taken the body off it and thrown the chassis, wheels and motion in the bin, built a new chassis, and put a High Level box and can motor in it. Then you really have a decent loco. 

 

As for getting someone in to run the business with him, would anyone with the acumen required want to even think about it once they have done some due diligence on the business? I think not. 

[Lord_Woody]

Well I've just ordered a Hudswell Clarke loco, purely on reading this thread and then looking at DJM's website out of interest. Mind you, there was no financial commitment at this stage, I may have been a bit more circumspect if there was.

[wellseasoned]

There is a side to things we are not normally privy to, the trade itself. During the early days of the King class announcement i had several emails back and forth with Dave Jones. On this one to one basis he indicated a few instances where it sounded as though he wasn't getting a fair crack of the whip from certain others within the wider trade. I of course have no way of verifying his comments but they did sound plausable.

Dave Jones does seem a marmite like character, and those who for whatever reason/s do not take to him can be very "vocal" on forums. Some years back I asked him a question on the Dapol stand and was taken aback at a quite surley reply. I retorted strongly and he backed down and apologised. Therefore he may well have a "snappy" side to his character.
My own view is that he is a good designer but has been trying to undertake too much on his own. Consequently those of us who have crowdfuned the King project have had long periods of time with no updates/P.R.

His recent "announcement" that has created so many ripples may have some justification, but was probably not the best of ideas. I have paid deposits on two Kings and some have ordered several. I'd like to think that the majority of people who've paid a deposit/s will stay with the project, and treat his announcement as an unfortunate hiatus.

What he really needs to do IMO is get the King finished and out there. Hopefully it will be a super(b) loco that will go some way towards calming things down, and proving what he is capable of.

[DavidH]

35 minutes ago, Lord_Woody said:

Well I've just ordered a Hudswell Clarke loco, [...]

 

Why?

Edited May 7, 2019 by DavidH

[Lord_Woody]

1 minute ago, DavidH said:

 

Why?

Because it's a model I'd like and there's nothing to lose?

[adb968008]

I actually think the HC is the baby in the bath water myself, and am surprised it was left on the back burner for so long... proof of the pudding will be the 0-6-0 Peckett.

There was a complete frenzy over the 0-4-0  Peckett, and a similar one for the Barclay, though both waned over time, I suspect that was supply that was the issue, too many of one, not enough of the other at their respective time windows.

Whilst the industrial revolution is probably coming to an end, there’s probably still a window for one or two more.

[DavidH]

24 minutes ago, Lord_Woody said:

Because it's a model I'd like and there's nothing to lose?

 

Well, that's true - I would like one too! But history and experience with DJM mechanisms tells me to not risk any money until the model can be seen and tested.

[bill_schmidt1]

52 minutes ago, wellseasoned said:

There is a side to things we are not normally privy to, the trade itself. During the early days of the King class announcement i had several emails back and forth with Dave Jones. On this one to one basis he indicated a few instances where it sounded as though he wasn't getting a fair crack of the whip from certain others within the wider trade. I of course have no way of verifying his comments but they did sound plausable.

A fair crack of the whip? Dave Jones got that.. Kernow, Hatton's, the Irish lads and RevolutioN all put trust in him. Kernow had to bail him out. Hatton's got a hit and miss 14xx, beaten by Hornby to the King and the other two have had mud slung at them for wanting to go their own ways. He had his crack and lost out but of course it wasn't his fault!

If he means that other manufacturers should of let him do models of items just because he'd announced them first then why? This is business not the playground and just because he's announced X first doesn't mean he hadn't picked it up just because he'd heard someone was working X.. How many times did he drop hints or let slip other manufacturers were working on things?? Hardly going to endear himself to others is it??

[Zunnan]

4 minutes ago, Lord_Woody said:

Because it's a model I'd like and there's nothing to lose?

 

 

I was going to comment on my experiences with models he's designed or his own productions but it turned into a rambling rant and I thought better of posting it. Suffice to say, I won't entertain his products, so this whole 'announcement' which thankfully isn't another model comes as a relief.

 

On the grounds of the Austerity and that 14xx I cancelled any interest in the HC, which is a locomotive I'd love to see RTR. If it ever surfaces, there needs to be a ground up change in his 'IP'. Even the O2 isn't immune, if that geared wheelset is out of sync those side rods look ridiculous as they flail around, but it is the better model overall than the rest of his offerings to date.

[Great Western]

16 hours ago, Clearwater said:

 

Im not 100% sure I agree with that (and it’s a bit of an overstatement to compare the collapse of a multi billion pound entity such as Lehmann or Northern Rock who employed thousands of people with a bloke who turns over a few hundred k a year, at most, trading from his dining room table).  By its very nature, this thread attracts those who disagree/dislike DJ’s practices.  Standing up and defending him here would be brave and I suspect the posters who,typically support Dave view this thread as a bit of a pile-on and have chosen to ignore it.  I agree his statements are ill judged and the approach a carriage short of a rake but I’d wager that if he can move one of his projects forward, there’ll be a raft of people saying “what was the problem, you’re just trying to run Dave down.”    The key with Dave is to harness his evident enthusiasm and manage it with some less idealistic and harder/cooler headed oversight.  It’s not uncommon for the face to market to be a different one to the person who actually manages/runs business. I’m sure we can all think of examples as we can of other sole traders who’ve bitten off more than they can chew and/or,have found the business side of model trains more complex than they first imagined.

 

I meant who would trust DJM now, it would be like investing your saving in Northern Rock, pension with Robert Maxwell or investment pot with Lehman Brothers.

 

i think it would be best to refund any money which is left in a fair way to investors and wind up what’s left.

[njee20]

14 hours ago, Clearwater said:

 

I was gently satirising the type of document that is used to sell a business (cf estate agent speak).  I note that Dave’s website lists his awards including a 2012 award for innovation plus other awards... https://djmodels.co.uk/past-models. 

I see he also says he designed the N gauge KTA pocket wagon, which AFAIK doesn't exist. He wasn't part of ATM who did one, nor is he anything to do with C-Rail, who are doing one...

[Clearwater]

41 minutes ago, Great Western said:

 

I meant who would trust DJM now, it would be like investing your saving in Northern Rock, pension with Robert Maxwell or investment pot with Lehman Brothers.

 

i think it would be best to refund any money which is left in a fair way to investors and wind up what’s left.

 

OT but any savings in Northern Rock would have been subject to the FSCS so guaranteed by HMT.

 

I doubt there’s any cash left to be refunded.

[raymw]

Maybe all your questions answered in a week or so https://djmodels.co.uk/availability-out-of-the-office

[Great Western]

It appears DJM isn’t going to retire gracefully then, but drag out the bloody painful death as long as there is breath in his body.

Im sure he’s not foolish enough to have any personal financial exposure, hence why he’s dragging it on and on.

 

Someone mentioned that DJ Models is only owned 50%  by DJ himself, any idea who this other investors is ? 

[woodenhead]

Doesn't inspire confidence when the project manager and managing director of the company is saying he is trying to get answers:

 

"Hi everyone, I’m not back in the ‘office’ until the 17th of May, so any news will probably come at or slightly after that date. However rest assured i am trying to get answers, results and an update together for you on the various current projects. Dave"

[Roy Langridge]

6 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Doesn't inspire confidence when the project manager and managing director of the company is saying he is trying to get answers:

 

"Hi everyone, I’m not back in the ‘office’ until the 17th of May, so any news will probably come at or slightly after that date. However rest assured i am trying to get answers, results and an update together for you on the various current projects. Dave"

 

I have project managed subcontractors before now where you have ended up trying/hoping to get information/commitments from them with little confidence that you will, and it is not always a sign of bad management. In one case my subcontractor had a brilliant record of delivery and a good reputation which resulted in them being bought by a big US firm. Thereafter, all was not well and despite dealing with the same people, it was a slippery slope which led to them being dropped as a supplier.

 

I am not saying that is the case here, but I can't help but feel this thread is now looking for any ammo to fire with, even when the target may be sinking without assistance.

Roy

Edited May 7, 2019 by Roy Langridge

[Hal Nail]

1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

Doesn't inspire confidence 

 

Maybe I’m just incredibly perceptive but I had a feeling something might be up.

 

 

[Great Western]

Several thousand pounds have been sunk into DJM Ltd, those who have given money for a return ie, a model they have a right to know  why: the project has gone wrong, where the money has gone - in detail, what has actually been delivered - anything that can be sold to return funds etc.

 

it all seems very convenient how several crowdfunding schemes can all fail (in practice, not officially yet) with monies lost with zero recourse or explanation. 

 

Now the leading man declares himself out of office until mid May, with some vague hope of information when he returns.

 

I've no personal dislike for DJ, I’ve not brought or invested in any of his schemes, my anger is how this has continued to bump along from drama to drama, missed deadline to missed deadline but people are still saying they’ve ordered models, continue to show faith and just shrug off losing their had earned money.

 

Maybe these schemes should of been run through a 100% trustworthy platform which provided protection to the investor - or was that not that plan all along ? 

Edited May 7, 2019 by AY Mod
Comment removed.

[Tomsontour]

Having put down a deposit for the king in blue, I'm pretty well facing up to that I won't actually ever see this model. Which is a bloody shame. My main incentives to buying the king was because it was one of my uncles favourite locos and we shared a cab ride on 6023 during a photocharter. So it was mainly for sentimental reasons I wanted a king as my uncle is no longer with us. 

 

Dave if you're reading this all we ask is for a bit honesty in your next update, I'm not gonna kick a man while he is down, but so far there has been many false promises,  all we want to know is if this is ever likely to happen, and can we have a bit more communication.

 

Has it put me off crowd funding? Not at all but I think I'll be a bit wiser if I do chose to invest in my hobby again using this form in the future

 

Matt

[AY Mod]

2 hours ago, Great Western said:

Now withdrawn.

 

Such statements do step over a line as they're an opinion based speculation. You cannot be certain and you cannot back it up with facts so let's stay on the evidential based side of the line please.