DJ Models Announcement 01/05/19

[Gareth Collier]

19 minutes ago, Tomsontour said:

Having put down a deposit for the king in blue, I'm pretty well facing up to that I won't actually ever see this model.

I'm still waiting for the N gauge King featured in the Lima catalogue circa 1975

[Covkid]

On Sunday, May 05, 2019 at 18:50, Anglian said:

 

 I've never taken part in a Kickstarter and after reading this thread I never will.

 

We are each entitled to our own opinions and if Jason of Rapido or the Accurascale lads were to establish a crowd funding scheme for models I wanted I would be there with the deposit immediately. These guys have credibility, but they don't need to crowdfund, and that is the whole point we are discussing in this thread - the viability of a model manufacturer.

[woodenhead]

44 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

I have project managed subcontractors before now where you have ended up trying/hoping to get information/commitments from them with little confidence that you will, and it is not always a sign of bad management. In one case my subcontractor had a brilliant record of delivery and a good reputation which resulted in them being bought by a big US firm. Thereafter, all was not well and despite dealing with the same people, it was a slippery slope which led to them being dropped as a supplier.

 

I am not saying that is the case here, but I can't help but feel this thread is now looking for any ammo to fire with, even when the target may be sinking without assistance.

Roy

He has three live projects, he should know where they are up to, maybe not the exact latest but he should know:

• viability
• CAD stage
• Tooling stage

Given last week's disaster and then knowing he is out of the office for 14 days - he could have posted something positive but no, Out of Office on, vague promise of an update around the time he returns - head in the sand.

[Persephone]

Out of office?  Oh how convenient, never do today what you can put off till tomorrow. You would expect, with the ordure hitting the fan at the rate it has done this last week, that the wise thing would be to do some firefighting and reassurance but no, ill stick my head under the blanket and hope it will all go away like a bad dream. Begs the question where is he then though. 

 

 

[Allegheny1600]

To be fair(ish) to Dave,

He could be en-route to China or visiting other potential or current clients, however, there are few places in the world where you are truly incommunicado (unless you want to be, of course!).

 

To be equally fair to the rest of the modelling population, it does smack to running and hiding though.

[Covkid]

15 hours ago, Persephone said:

 

Indeed it was. But only once you had taken the body off it and thrown the chassis, wheels and motion in the bin, built a new chassis, and put a High Level box and can motor in it. Then you really have a decent loco. 

 

As for getting someone in to run the business with him, would anyone with the acumen required want to even think about it once they have done some due diligence on the business? I think not. 

 

I am trying to think of any reason why someone would want to join DJM and put money into the company. Does DJM have a USP making it more beneficial than setting up one's own business ? We have already established that supplied with enough cash the Chinese factories can produce whatever you want, provided your CAD designs are absolutely accurate, and the factories are supplied with the absolutely correct information. 

 

We have seen livery issues, numbers applied in the wrong place etc etc on models produced in China but I very strongly suspect that might be due to insufficient information supplied to the factories resulting in assumptions being made. I think even Jason Shron has binned some product due to errors but he has the ethos to expect nothing but the best for his customers.

 

At the end of the day though it is all about the manufacturer delivering good quality product to the market place, selling it, then reinvesting that cash in the next batch of product. Dave has told us that himself, so maybe his APT, King and 92 should achieve that.

[DavidH]

1 hour ago, Great Western said:

It appears DJM isn’t going to retire gracefully then, but drag out the bloody painful death as long as there is breath in his body.

Im sure he’s not foolish enough to have any personal financial exposure, hence why he’s dragging it on and on.

 

Someone mentioned that DJ Models is only owned 50%  by DJ himself, any idea who this other investors is ? 

 

Trying to stick to hard facts, Companies House says "Ownership of shares – 75% or more".

[Littlethorpe]

My interpretation of the Companies House info is that Dave is the sole shareholder.

[pheaton]

dave jones has 50 ordinary shares, in the interests of GDPR i will not name the other shareholder of 50 ordinary shares but you can see for yourselves in the filing history on the 18th of Jan 2018.

 

ergo dave jones is a 50% shareholder

 

Dont confuse ordinary shares with zero shares....ordinary shares are equity....

Edited May 7, 2019 by pheaton

[highpeakman]

On 07/05/2019 at 12:40, Roy Langridge said:

 

I have project managed subcontractors before now where you have ended up trying/hoping to get information/commitments from them with little confidence that you will, and it is not always a sign of bad management. In one case my subcontractor had a brilliant record of delivery and a good reputation which resulted in them being bought by a big US firm. Thereafter, all was not well and despite dealing with the same people, it was a slippery slope which led to them being dropped as a supplier.

 

I am not saying that is the case here, but I can't help but feel this thread is now looking for any ammo to fire with, even when the target may be sinking without assistance.

Roy

 

I would agree with this statement and suggest people wait and see what happens when Dave returns. I was a Director/part owner of an hi-tech electronic component supply company that two of us built up from a "bedroom" operation to a multi million pound operation employing 13 people after 20 years (very hard graft but we must have done something right).

 

Sometimes we worked with Far Eastern companies (China, Taiwan, etc) and I have to say that it could be very difficult on occasions. When things went well there were no problems but if there were any problems producing the product then the information from the factory dried up almost completely. They did not want to tell us of any problems or explain about the problems. We believed that there is a culture of not wanting to advise bad news so nothing at all is said until the problem is solved or the project dies. We had worked with a major international telecommunications company to develop new communications equipment, the prototypes worked beautifully and everyone was happy. We had a million pound order lined up for starters. Unfortunately the production version did not work and suddenly the information flow from the factory just dried up and they would not answer emails, faxs or phone calls. The customer even travelled out to the plant but got no satisfactory result and we lost this contract after 2 years of hard work.

 

Another company was supplying product to us but we noticed that an almost identical product appeared on the market from a competitor. When we queried this it was confirmed the factory was making that item as well. We said but you agreed an exclusive product contract with us and they said yes, we have an exclusive contract with them as well!

 

Now I stress that these types of problems are not typical but neither are they uncommon. No-one would do business there if all the companies were the same but it can sometimes be difficult with different cultures, attitudes and long supply lines.

 

While I accept that Dave's statement has not done him any favours it is possible that he has taken time to travel to his suppliers/contractors. If that is the case then I think we should be patient and wait and see what happens next.

Edited May 8, 2019 by highpeakman
Clarification of minor points

[njee20]

1 hour ago, Great Western said:

Maybe these schemes should of been run through a 100% trustworthy platform which provided protection to the investor - or was that not that plan all along ? 

 

They don't exist. Platforms like Kickstarter only release funds to the business when the requisite thresholds for completion are met, but they're at pains to point out you're not buying something, you're simply pledging a sum of cash in return for a reward, like a train, in the future. Ultimately if the company spends your money and then says "sorry, it's all gone" what can you/they do? But we've done all that before.

[Steamport Southport]

16 hours ago, Persephone said:

 

Indeed it was. But only once you had taken the body off it and thrown the chassis, wheels and motion in the bin, built a new chassis, and put a High Level box and can motor in it. Then you really have a decent loco. 

 

As for getting someone in to run the business with him, would anyone with the acumen required want to even think about it once they have done some due diligence on the business? I think not. 

 

Mine works perfectly though. And I can only comment on my experience.

 

Any photos of your super-duper new chassis for reference? 

 

 

Jason

Edited May 7, 2019 by Steamport Southport

[John M Upton]

What I want to see ASAP is a clearly definitive statement of exactly how 'over the counter' items such as new runs of Mermaid and the Sharks are doing.

 

Seemingly endless promised delivery dates have come and gone and all we get is the occasional pronouncement of hot air and piffle.

 

For example, each batch of Mermaids  the sales were meant to immediately fund the production of the next batch/livery.

 

What happened to that?

[Richard E]

30 minutes ago, pheaton said:

dave jones has 50 ordinary shares, in the interests of GDPR i will not name the other shareholder of 50 ordinary shares but you can see for yourselves in the filing history on the 18th of Jan 2018.

 

ergo dave jones is a 50% shareholder

 

Dont confuse ordinary shares with zero shares....ordinary shares are equity....

That individual was a director but resigned on 20th March 2018.

 

Companies House shows that DJ owns 75% or more of the shares but does  not qualify which class of shares as there are 100 ordinary shares in issue and 1 Zero share. The Zero share holds full voting and dividend rights. It is not entirely clear from the filings what rights the ordinary shares hold as it would appear the filing has not been correctly completed.

[grahame]

6 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

For example, each batch of Mermaids  the sales were meant to immediately fund the production of the next batch/livery.

 

What happened to that?

 

To be fair he did produce two batches, each of a different livery, of the mermaids but apparently neither sold particularly well and he had to remainder them to retailers which probably meant selling them at cost leaving little to fund further batches. It might have been better if he had split each of the batches (or at least the initial batch) in to four different liveries (like other manufacturers have previously done).

 

However, one of his announcements/press releases stated that the next mermaid production runs in black, green and Gulf red will be produced and with retailers by November (I'm not sure if the year was mentioned). The shark brake van was also mentioned as being put in to production for availability from November. There was no mention of how these production runs were being financed.

 

It might be more pertinent to pick up some of the existing mermaids at a decent price and re-paint them in to the livery required rather than wait at least six months on a potentially vague announcement.

 

G.

[Colin_McLeod]

2 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Doesn't inspire confidence when the project manager and managing director of the company is saying he is trying to get answers:

 

"Hi everyone, I’m not back in the ‘office’ until the 17th of May, so any news will probably come at or slightly after that date. However rest assured i am trying to get answers, results and an update together for you on the various current projects. Dave"

 

What's wrong with TRYING to get answers?  Let's not pick up every word and phrase for critique.  

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 hour ago, Persephone said:

Out of office?  Oh how convenient, never do today what you can put off till tomorrow.

 

 

 

I e-mailed our local electricity infrastructure provider last week. Got an "out-of-office" reply dated 2013!

[Great Western]

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

 

Such statements do step over a line as they're an opinion based speculation. You cannot be certain and you cannot back it up with facts so let's stay on the evidential based side of the line please.

 

 

Noted, and withdrawn.

[Great Western]

6 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

What's wrong with TRYING to get answers?  Let's not pick up every word and phrase for critique.  

 

 

Nothing, if you have a proven track record of delivering - trying, but just not quite getting there just sums up this firm sadly. 

[pheaton]

11 minutes ago, Richard E said:

That individual was a director but resigned on 20th March 2018.

 

Companies House shows that DJ owns 75% or more of the shares but does  not qualify which class of shares as there are 100 ordinary shares in issue and 1 Zero share. The Zero share holds full voting and dividend rights. It is not entirely clear from the filings what rights the ordinary shares hold as it would appear the filing has not been correctly completed.

Those will be zero shares Richard, which make him a person of significant control, they are not worth anything financially however they do give rights on liquidation etc....the ordinary shares are shares based equity (investment of the company) and have voting rights and attract a dividend.

 

The fact that the director has resigned does not mean they resign their ordinary shares, afaik they would resign their zero shares. confirmation statements will show if that has changed in july. However, if the company has refunded the shares that would reflect in the accounts, as as far as i can see they do not, he could well have purchased the shares as you rightly say. 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by pheaton

[njee20]

14 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

What's wrong with TRYING to get answers?  Let's not pick up every word and phrase for critique.  

On the one hand I totally agree, there comes a point when it's a bit excessive and just looking to pick holes. The flip side is that this is his job, in its entirety. Surely he should be all over the progress of his projects, given he's at pains to point out the fact he's within his own capacity? Yes, subcontractors can be a pain, but his job (literally) is to badger them and be well aware of exactly what they're doing and ensure they're all delivering.

The 92 was "going to tooling in the next 2 weeks" nearly 2 years ago, surely there should be a very short list of reasons why that's not happening right now. It may well be he's been asked some very specific questions he perhaps doesn't know, but the best thing about being a one-man band is that you should be able to answer everything immediately, there's no one ask to ask!

[Great Western]

Any sensible businessman would knock the 92 project and refund as fair as possible any remaining monies, this might regain some faith in DJM as having any kind of ability to progress the remainder.

[highpeakman]

1 hour ago, pheaton said:

dave jones has 50 ordinary shares, in the interests of GDPR i will not name the other shareholder of 50 ordinary shares but you can see for yourselves in the filing history on the 18th of Jan 2018.

 

ergo dave jones is a 50% shareholder

 

Dont confuse ordinary shares with zero shares....ordinary shares are equity....

 

The other person listed was a Director (for less than 12 months). However a Director is not necessarily a shareholder. 

[Torper]

19 minutes ago, Great Western said:

Nothing, if you have a proven track record of delivering - trying, but just not quite getting there just sums up this firm sadly. 

 

So if you don't have a proven track record there's no point even trying?  While I appreciate that it's tempting to continue putting the boot in, why not wait and see if he manages anything.  As for his predicament, I found the post by Highpeakman earlier on this page both informative and enlightening - it could help explain a lot.

 

DT

[pheaton]

6 minutes ago, highpeakman said:

 

The other person listed was a Director (for less than 12 months). However a Director is not necessarily a shareholder. 

the person was issued with 50 ordinary shares...as per the filing on the 18th january 2018