DJ Models Announcement 01/05/19

[Hot.In.Sing]

As a long term observer of RMW I'd like to thank all contributors for the many happy hours I've spent browsing and reading about model railways I can only dream of.

 

As a Man United fan, given tonight's Liverpool v Barcelona game I'm also not writing DJM off just yet.

 

You may interpret that as you please 

[GWR-fan]

I feel that unless some projects can be prioritised to release then basically all planned projects are dead in the water.  It would be counterproductive to the integrity of the hobby for an outside source to rescue those doomed projects considered financially attractive for for the following reasons - 

 

*Firstly,  to continue the project with outside assistance would require the approval of DJM who no doubt would wish some financial settlement to which many feel he is not worthy of given the extended delays and non-performance.

 

*Secondly,  any continuation of a project will most likely require more upfront unscheduled payments and given the current climate few would be willing to take the risk as it seems that the war chest is empty.

 

*Thirdly,  should a third party take over a stalled project (no doubt after paying compensation to DJM) and release it as a commercial undertaking then those who have crowd funded and missed out on their deposits will cry foul and the third party itself will receive a bad name in their eyes.   Perhaps the third party may compensate those who have missed out by offering a discount on the selling price,  however, this discount will no doubt add to the overall cost meaning that non-crowd funded buyers will be compensating for those who chose to be initially involved in the project and lost their deposits. 

 

I see no positives in general as any third party release will inevitably leave a sour taste on those who lost their deposits.   Performance of late has seemingly indicated that little progress has been made and is likely to do so.   If the company was sold to a third party then would the new buyer be morally required to refund all non-performing project deposits and also would the current owner walk away with pockets jingling while numerous crowd funders lament their losses?     All in all a bad look for the customer funded hobby.

 

[RJennings]

Reference current crowd funding I will be open and say that at present I have £698.99 of deposits paid with DJModels for an APT and Class 92s. Yes, I am a little anxious right now with current progress and uncertainty over these projects viability going forward as this is a huge sum of money to potentially lose but maybe as others have said its time to cut and run and accept the loss now. On the flip side have not seen anything from Dave to say these projects are on the rocks / in trouble so can only assume progress is still being made behind the scenes on them. I would also state in fairness to Dave I am also a 'crowdfunder' on Revolutions 320/321 project which so far in 3 years has only reached the CAD stage as well but with an outlay of £430 thus far so to me I feel Dave has been getting a lot of perhaps unfair criticisms. Also not seen a 3D print of this either ...

 

With regards to this statement in general nothing to add on this bar my own take on it which simply suggests trying to stop those he has paid for work done ready from using it / selling it to another individual / party to produce said models. Putting it in the public domain perhaps was to try and act as a warning to all that Dave is watching the market ...

[Covkid]

2 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

I feel that unless some projects can be prioritised to release then basically all planned projects are dead in the water.  It would be counterproductive to the integrity of the hobby for an outside source to rescue those doomed projects considered financially attractive for for the following reasons - 

 

*Firstly,  to continue the project with outside assistance would require the approval of DJM who no doubt would wish some financial settlement to which many feel he is not worthy of given the extended delays and non-performance.

 

*Secondly,  any continuation of a project will most likely require more upfront unscheduled payments and given the current climate few would be willing to take the risk as it seems that the war chest is empty.

 

*Thirdly,  should a third party take over a stalled project (no doubt after paying compensation to DJM) and release it as a commercial undertaking then those who have crowd funded and missed out on their deposits will cry foul and the third party itself will receive a bad name in their eyes.   Perhaps the third party may compensate those who have missed out by offering a discount on the selling price,  however, this discount will no doubt add to the overall cost meaning that non-crowd funded buyers will be compensating for those who chose to be initially involved in the project and lost their deposits. 

 

I see no positives in general as any third party release will inevitably leave a sour taste on those who lost their deposits.   Performance of late has seemingly indicated that little progress has been made and is likely to do so.   If the company was sold to a third party then would the new buyer be morally required to refund all non-performing project deposits and also would the current owner walk away with pockets jingling while numerous crowd funders lament their losses?     All in all a bad look for the customer funded hobby.

 

 

In response, I would ask what any "rescuer" would reasonably get from buying into DJM. Strike's me the class 92 project is worthless because the Accurascale loco will inevitably pip it to production. Another class 71 scenario even if the DJM 92 makes it to tooling.

 

The APT-P is so niche,  but Dave has unecessarily complicated  the project by offering far too many choices and variations. Are there still  enough crowd funders to make it work?  Were there ever enough at the start of the project before all the banking and email issues .?

 

That leaves the N king. Again,  are there really enough crowd funders? 

Would buying into DJM be of interest to  any investor ?

 

Can't see it I am afraid, unless Dave has many meg of CAD stored for development of the Clayton and Baby Deltic models he promised us

[GWR-fan]

Conceivably there may not be anything for a third party to rescue,  however, as I stated in my initial posting in this thread I believe that Dave may be doing a stocktake of potential assets to make the business more attractive for a sale.  His May 1st press release was a total PR disaster but there must have been some reasoning behind it other than a total meltdown of frustration.  I understand that Dave may believe that he is being cheated (for whatever reason)  but then again the accusations simply follow a line of maladies and disruptions to his business effecting product development. 

 

The modeller today wants an all singing bells and whistles product.  Can a crowd funded product achieve this?  Large manufacturers have the research staff and production facilities to enable complicated models.  Can a one man band achieve all the glitz and glamour that the APT project promised. Yes,  it would have been commissioned to a third party manufacturer but was the project too grandiose to be a reality?  In a thread on another manufacturer potential crowd funders (expressions of interest) were asked what they would like in a model of a class 91 and rake of Mk4 coaches.  The wishlist was very detailed with electrical couplings for DCC control from the loco through to the coaches,  to a servo operated pan.  A request was made by one modeller for a possible DC only model and was met with a  "We will not be making a Railroad model".  While the company is more than able to offer a full bells and whistles product the overall costing,  like on the APT is going to be very high calling for an outlay of a relatively large 50% deposit before tooling is even cut.  Product detail is being driven along by a few who demand only the best,  driving the price ever upwards for a product that will require a large outlay before we even see a production sample.  Do we really need all this level of detail? I am not advocating a return to 1990's Margate levels of detail (or lack thereof),  but a compromise has to be made when a project is funded by trusting modellers willing to take a little risk but hoping to get a return on their money.

[JSpencer]

14 hours ago, DavidH said:

 

Someone with a solid business plan would have come out fighting at the start of the week - and issued a breakdown of the live projects with an honest estimate of schedules and some idea of funding in place. And they would have done it without recourse to hyperbole or finger-pointing, or blame-shifting ...

Or you could just go on holiday

 

This should have been done at the start of each project so that potential funders could give feedback (like "I think we should have 30% more people as backdrop against late payers.... Are you sure we can do it that quick?).

 

Any such comm now (a weak area of his) would need to be carefully thought out. Otherwise it is more fuel on the fire.

Granted staying silent for a long period is not a way forwards either.

Edited May 8, 2019 by JSpencer

[jjb1970]

Wow, 40 pages and still going . I think we have exhausted this and continuing is just going to do another circuit of the same arguments and opinions. 

 

I think we can sum it all up with a few bullet points:

 

-the announcement was ill judged and a colossal own goal;

 

-the propensity of DJM to blame others for all their ills does nothing for their credibility ;

 

-throwing mud and accusations around so freely is not professional and would be best avoided ;

 

-DJM needs to deliver what they have promised if they want to survive and rebuild confidence in the brand;

 

-those who have paid into crowd fund schemes from DJM are in the unenviable position of wondering whether they should cut their losses and back out or press on and hope that things eventually work out;

 

-it would help to bring in a partner or buyer with the ability to turn things around. 

 

Is there anything else to say again? 

[grandadbob]

Nope but I'm sure somebody will!

[wellseasoned]

Yes I think it is exhausted now, and will just go round and round.

Spare a thought for those of us who have paid deposits for the King loco and are awaiting an update. Ongoing negativity/speculation isn't helpful guys.
As for D.J. we call all speculate on his out of office message, but do not know what personal problems he may or may not currently have. He may be taking a break, or in China sorting a few things.

All we can do is wait for him to come back with some updates and explanations. We might even be pleasently surprised.

[Great Western]

10 hours ago, njee20 said:

Yes, you always play the wounded crusader too, but actually you’re just unpleasant most of the time. The boss even told you as much earlier.  

 

I’m far from a Dave apologist, but you literally just post contextless comments saying how awful he is. All the time. It’s really dull. 

 

Your welcome to ignore me if I’m so dull.

For the record initially I was very supportive of various projects, I only turned when it was apparent things where going south.

[njee20]

And that's fine, but it's really hard to ignore you because you pop up constantly on every thread saying "he'll never deliver, you're wasting your money, the man's a fool". It's not constructive, or helpful, you're not "raising concern" - do you not think that after 39 pages there was enough concern raised, don't paint yourself as being helpful, you come across as spiteful and vindictive. Like I say, even Andy Y has called you out as being unpleasant and had to censor you, yet you still think you're somehow performing a public service?

 

Also, "you're" is the contraction of "you are", not your. If you're going to troll,  please try and do so with correct English.

 

We can agree (I think that's unanimous) that things are not good for DJM at the moment. Being out of office feels incredibly ill timed, I have to wonder if that was planned, even if the reaction was amazing to be uncontactable for 10 days within a week of your big announcement is a very strange choice. Time will tell.

 

[Torper]

I think that the more people criticise, the more people cast doubt on current products, the more people say they'll never deal with DJM again, then the more likely it is that no products will ever materialise.  I'd be angry if I'd lost money, or thought it likely that I was going to lose money, on any of the crowdfunding schemes, but what's done is done and I think that all we can usefully do is wait until Dave returns to the office and see what he then has to say.  I imagine he knows what people think he should be saying.

 

DT

[Ravenser]

10 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

Conceivably there may not be anything for a third party to rescue,  however, as I stated in my initial posting in this thread I believe that Dave may be doing a stocktake of potential assets to make the business more attractive for a sale.  His May 1st press release was a total PR disaster but there must have been some reasoning behind it other than a total meltdown of frustration.  I understand that Dave may believe that he is being cheated (for whatever reason)  but then again the accusations simply follow a line of maladies and disruptions to his business effecting product development. 

 

 

I presume that DJM's press release was in part intended to frighten off/kill rival projects, especially Accurascale/RevolutioN on the 92, by announcing that he had created a legal obstruction to their projects . This would then clear the field for his own 92s , and frighten customers away from the rival projects back to DJM - allowing the DJM models to proceed. It seems to have had precisely the opposite effect.

 

It was also clearly intended to serve notice on Kernow and Hattons that DJM had established some kind of legal claim against them in respect of joint projects/collaborations. 

 

It seems also to have been intended to reassure crowd-funders that their money was safe because the lawyers would make sure that rival projects were blocked. In that respect it's been a total 180 degree failure, as evidenced by the number of posters saying that they are now essentially writing- off their crowd-funding as lost money

 

It may or may not also be aimed at Hornby Hobbies and Heljan . I would be surprised if scaling up CAD from N to O would be a sensible approach to Class 17  but who knows at this point what Dave Jones may suspect one of his factories to be capable of?

 

And finally it is clearly meant as a warning to any European party who may be in contact with a Chinese party offering to make anything that DJM has announced from some CAD they can supply - "Don't even try it. My lawyers will be in touch . You will not be allowed to proceed."

 

In summary the intended message to a large slice of the hobby was "Enough. DJM will no longer tolerate this. We have taken legal steps against you"

 

But I repeat - we've probably reached the point where speculation about the state of Dave Jones' head, his business , it's future , and the state of certain posters heads is no longer productive.

 

What we can do is list everything promised  but undelivered , as a first step to assessing the impact on other people:

 

So:

 

OO:

 

- Class 74 .                     Follow up to Cl 71. Collaboration with Kernow??  Crowd-funded. Cancelled - crowd-funders refunded by Kernow 

- Class 92                       DJM own brand . Crowd-funded . Pending - some CAD shown? 

- APT-P                           DJM own brand . Crowd funded . Pending - some CAD shown 

- Hudswell Clarke  ? 0-6-0T  - DJM own brand?- status unclear

- King                             Collaboration with Hattons  ? Dropped after Hornby produced theirs. Still theoretically a possible future project by Hattons??

- Q6                                DJM own brand . Dropped after Hornby announcement

- HUO                            DJM own brand . Crowd-funded. Dropped??? after Accurascale announcement

- F5 2-4-2T                    DJM/ F5 trust commission . Dropped? 2015

- Class 59                      DJM own brand - how funded? in abeyance' at end of 2015 although earlier reported as dropped in July 2015. A model announced by Dapol in 2015 - now expected June/July 19.

- Irish cement bubble  Collaboration/commission with Accurascale - Accurascale subsequently dealt direct with factory

- GW Steam Railmotor  Commission from Kernow - Kernow subsequently went direct to a different? factory. Still pending from Kernow

- LSWR road van              DJM commission from Kernow. Kernow went direct - project live but pending from Kernow

 

N:

- Class 92                      DJM own brand . Crowd -funded. Pending - has CAD been shown? April 2019 - tooling said to be imminent

- Shark brake van      DJM own brand. Self-funded???  Pending - CAD shown + EP. Said to be awaiting tooling 2015. April 2019 - intended dely Nov 19

- King                            DJM in collaboration with Digitrains . Pending - any crowd-funding? . CAD shown - claimed ready to tool. 3D impression shown

- APT-P                          DJM with Durham Trains of Stanley. Crowd-funded . Pending - 119 of 400 expressions of interest received at April 2019

- J94                               DJM own brand . Crowd-funded. Expressions of interest  - 112 of 800 expressions of interest needed at April 2019

- 63xx                             DJM own brand . Expressions of interest . 236 of 1000 needed received at April 2019. How funded?

- Class 17                       DJM own brand - reached EP - stopped by dispute with factory . Registered design

- Class 23                       DJM own brand . Will follow Class 17

- HUO                             DJM own brand . Crowd funded . Pending???. Dropped??? "I don't think this is a go-er" - Sept 2018

- Hudswell Clarke         0-6-0T , DJM own brand. status unclear

- Class 59                       DJM own brand - how funded?in abeyance' at end of 2015 although earlier reported as dropped in July 2015. Possible livery licence issue?

- Turbot                          DJM own brand - self-funded - pending -  CAM/CAM said to to be final 2015

- LSWR Road van         DJM -own brand - self-funded pending  - said to be awaiting tooling 2015

- Bogie Bolster E          DJM own brand - self funded -  pending -  CAM/CAM said to to be final 2015

- Mk5 Coaches             DJM own brand - cancelled

- Q6                                 DJM own brand - status unknown

 

- Pendolino                  Kickstarter with RevolutioN - RevolutioN later switched to Rapido as lower production run required

- GW Flying Banana    Kickstarter as DJM - failed to reach target, dropped Nov 2014

 

O:

- J94                             DJM own brand?? Dropped???

- Class 23                    DJM own brand? Self-funded? No reference since 2014

 

 

 

Quite a long list

 

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Ravenser
Edited to reflect further information in posts below

[Persephone]

Of course if he does go belly up, then the 40 pages of this thread will be to blame.................. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Persephone
Edited to put an emoji in as someone clearly didn't get the joke.

[adb968008]

Speculation of buying DJModels is interesting.

The man himself hasn’t given any indication of this.

Indeed the out of office would suggest a level of content with the situation.

 

Buying DJ Models purely to save the 92/APT i’m not sure is good business, it could be jumping between frying pans.

Buying DJ to have access to several n and OO toolings plus a roadmap of work in progress would be attractive, though exact state, ownership, accessibility would be essential to be clear.

 

But the only saviour for those is the man himself, and it must be a bit worrying for those having put money in to these models having to read these threads and to be left in shock

I would have thought it professional that at least a confidence assuring holding statement could have been issued by now, and some statement of future intent.

 

It maybe that we are surprised by an arrival of the king, or a return of the toolings to vindicate himself and silence us all, or we could get another big surprise.. though these kind of “slam onto the table” deliverables also provoke negative responses.

Edited May 8, 2019 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

On a slightly different tack I started yesterday evening to follow up 'Ravensers' point about looking at models which haven't appeared, and it is an absolute jungle of conflicting statements, announcements, non-announcements, and items simply disappearing off the radar.  It is not helped by reference to the short form accounts which at times simply do not seem to match what has been said about investment etc although such accounts are in any event, and in many respects, lacking in constructive detail to illustrate how a business is investing and selling as there is no profit and loss account or other important detail.

 

But back to models (and basing dates mainly on RMweb posts as the original website has gone and in any case might have had undated amendments.

 

September 2013 DJM burst onto the scene announcing plans to produce in N gauge a Class 17, Class 23, and a J94, in 00 a J94, and in gauge 0 a Class 23 and a J94.  A view from the 00 J94 CAD was published at that time views from the Class 17 and Class 23 CADs followed not long after.   On 8 September DJ posted on RMweb 'The J94 has all my money ploughed into it from my house ...' .  The July 2014 accounts showed the company as having £7,851 cash in hand and at the bank and fixed assets of £776.

 

Product ordering for (some of??) the above items went online on 09 Septr 2013.

 

The 2013 end of year statement included the comment 'now up and running with 3 of my own projects' (plus the O2 for Kernow)

 

In May 2014 the first mention appeared of a possible N gaugePendolino with a proposal subsequently emerging, involving  Revolution Trains to launch a Kickstarter fora minimum of 1,000 committed participants. Sign ups were very slow and the project looked rather shakey with all sorts of comments on RMweb from folk sugggesting shorter or longer formations etc.  Later it appears that Rapido offered Revolution a production level of 880 for the Kichstrater and Revolution moved the ptroject to them.  DJ posted that on November 8 2014 that 'someone else' had offered a run of 800 instead of his proposed 1,000 and that the shorter run would not be viable for him so the project went gto Rapido.

 

The N gauge Hudswell Clarke 24T 0-6-0T was announced on 23 July as 'already in development with the factory in China'. It appears the 00 version was announced at about the same time but I can't - as yet - find any positive date for that.

 

The N gauge Class 59 was also announced on 23 July 2014 plus an 00 version with the comment 'this models already in development in the factory in China and specification, artwork, and paint swatches have been approved'.  the next important announcement came in November regard ing a problem obtaining permission to use liveries from Lafarge who had recently taken over ownership.  the project was finally dropped on 23 July 2015.

 

The Q6 was also announced on 23 July 2014.  The Hornby decorated sample appeared in April 2015 on 'The Engine Shed' showing that Hornby were clearly well ahead and had obviously started work before the DJM announcement.  The DJM 00 project was cancelled c.Novr/Decr2015.

 

The Class 71 Kickstarter was launched on or about 18 August 2014.  

 

A Kickstarter for an N gauge GWR 'Flying Banana; was announced on 26 August 2014 in conjunction with an RMweb member. It failed to reach the target of 1,000 and was ended in November 2014.

 

RMweb Live on 13/14 September 2014 saw 4 x J94 1st EP samples, 3 x 2nd EP well tanks for the Kernow commission + some sort of O2 sample/CAD or whatever and 3D prints for the N gauge Class 17 and class 23 which had been produced by another member of RMweb for DJ.

 

The 2014 Year End Report stated that all initial DJM projects except the two 0 gauge models 'are now at approved for tooling stage' and are awaiting finance.  It was stated that J94 would be first followed by the N gauge Class 17 then the N gauge Class 23.

 

All I have so far delved out for 2015 apart from items mentioned above is the End of Year Report - this mentions commission work for Hattons (14XX/48XX) and the 'King' with in respect of the latter 'production in a few months' .  Commission work for Irish Railway Models for a ballast wagon - 'the CAD looks really special', together with various commissions from Kernow.  

In respect of own account models things were quite bullish with mention of the Class 71 progressing to EP and the announcement of the Class 74 and that approval had been given for tooling to commence on the N gauge Class 17 and Class 23 and the J94 (not clear which scale that referred to but presumably the 00 model).  The Class 59 was noted as 'in abeyance

 

It should be noted that the 2016 End of Year Report mentions only the Class 17 - the Class 23 is not mentioned at all.

 

So to try to summarise the situation for DJM own account models between initial announcements in 2013 and year end in 2015.

 

0 Gauge - two models announced in the initial announcement, no progress and last mentioned in 2014 year end report.

 

00 gauge - one model announced in initial announcement the (J94 - finally released in August/September 2016).  

Two more models (Class 59 and Q6) announced on 23 July 2014 - Q6 well behind Hornby and cancelled c.Nov/Dec 2015.  Class 59 'in abeyance' at end of 2015 although earlier reported as dropped in July 2015.

Class 71 crowdfunded (?Kickstarter) model announced in August 2014, progressing during 2015 - subsequently reached production.

Class 74 (crowdfunded) announced during either 2014 or 2015 - subsequently cancelled with no public evidence of any work being done.

 

N gauge - three models in initial announcement, none have reached production.  The Class 17 and Class 23 were reported at year end 2015 as 'approval given for tooling to commence' but a year later there was no mention of the Class 23 although the Class 17 was still seemingly progressing.

The Class 59 followed the same story as the 00 version.

Was an N gauge Q6 ever announced ?

The N gauge Hudswell Clarke was announced in July 2014 but has never appeared

 

Two N  gauge Kickstarter models failed to reach the target of 1,000 - the Pendolino, the GWR railcar so not progressed and not counted below

 

Which, as far as DJM own account locos/powered models are concerned in terms of announcements prior to the end of  2015 -

2 x 0 gauge models announced, neither have appeared almost 6 years later

5 x 00 gauge models announced, 2 have appeared (I might have missed the 00 Hudswell Clarke in that figure, not sure when it was announced)

5 N gauge models announced and none have appeared

 

Total traced to date announcements prior to December 2015 are 12.  Total actually produced and delivered to date is 2 or c.17%

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by The Stationmaster
Correct typos

[adb968008]

25 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

OO:

 

- Class 74 .                     Follow up to Cl 71. Collaboration with Kernow??  Crowd-funded. Cancelled - crowd-funders refunded by Kernow 

- Class 92                       DJM own brand . Crowd-funded . Pending - has CAD been shown? 

- APT-P                           DJM own brand . Crowd funded . Pending - no CAD show yet??

- Hudswell Clarke  ? 0-6-0T  - DJM own brand?- status unclear

- King                             Collaboration with Hattons  ? Dropped after Hornby produced theirs. Still theoretically a possible future project by Hattons??

- Q6                                DJM own brand . Dropped after Hornby announcement

- HUO                            DJM own brand . Crowd-funded. Dropped??? after Accurascale announcement

- F5 2-4-2T                    DJM/ F5 trust crowd-funded . Dropped? 2015

 

N:

- Class 92                      DJM own brand . Crowd -funded. Pending - has CAD been shown?

- Shark brake van        DJM own brand. Self-funded???  Pending - no CAD yet??

- King                            DJM in collaboration with Digitrains . Pending - any crowd-funding? . CAD shown - claimed ready to tool

- APT-P                          DJM with Durham Trains of Stanley. Crowd-funded . Pending - 119 of 400 expressions of interest recieved at April 2019

- J94                               DJM own brand . Crowd-funded. Expressions of interest 

- 63xx                             DJM own brand . Expressions of interest . 236 of 1000 needed recieved at April 2019. How funded?

- Class 17                       DJM own brand - reached EP - stopped by dispute with factory . Registered design

- Class 23                       DJM own brand . Will follow Class 17

- HUO                             DJM own brand . Crowd funded . Pending???. Dropped??? "I don't think this is a go-er" - Sept 2018

 

 

O:

- J94                             DJM own brand?? Dropped???

 

 

Quite a long list

 

 

Ive seen 3D prints of both 92’s, they’ve been around a while, but which “cad” (old or new factory) is unclear to me.

I’ve been looking but not found anything relating to tooling or EP (though on post said they were due at Stafford in Feb, but nothing was reported as seen).

 

APT ‘n’ has shown some scans out outputted

APT ‘OO’ has seen two CADs I believe to date (1 driving car, 1 coach) and a 3D print of a driving car.

 

The 17 has seen a running EP sample, there’s a video of it on YouTube, therefore this must represent the most complete in the pipeline, however there’s lots of rumours on this.

 

in my opinion the CAD stage is a vital piece of time consuming work, and is therefore of value, but the big money is the tooling. I don’t see anywhere near the amounts required for tooling in the annual reports.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by adb968008

[PaulCheffus]

22 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

N:

- Shark brake van        DJM own brand. Self-funded???  Pending - no CAD yet??

 

 

Hi

 

CAD has been posted on here for the Shark and also at least one EP.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[DavidH]

6 minutes ago, PaulCheffus said:

 

Hi

 

CAD has been posted on here for the Shark and also at least one EP.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

Somewhere on here there is a comment from Dave about being disappointed with pre-orders for the N Shark (doo doo doo do do do dooo), hence it not going into production. Did he promote it further at that point, to get more orders?
 

[Oldddudders]

37 minutes ago, Persephone said:

Of course if he does go belly up, then the 40 pages of this thread will be to blame.................. 

Why so? This thread was started in response to DJ’s trumpeted announcement, which astonished many. The inferences that have been drawn, and the implications of his attitude that have been extrapolated, are entirely due to that announcement. Of course, lack of progress with models has provided plenty for people to work with in the thread, and the eye-watering sums some have invested surely give them plenty to carp about when the product provider appears to be acting - and above all writing - outside any known norms. DJ has shaken market confidence, and if that proves fatal to his business it will be sad - but surely predicatble?

[John M Upton]

I was just browsing a retailers website and in N, in addition to the missing runs of Mermaids and the Sharks, there is a Turbot and a LSWR Road Van.

[njee20]

31 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Why so? This thread was started in response to DJ’s trumpeted announcement, which astonished many. The inferences that have been drawn, and the implications of his attitude that have been extrapolated, are entirely due to that announcement. Of course, lack of progress with models has provided plenty for people to work with in the thread, and the eye-watering sums some have invested surely give them plenty to carp about when the product provider appears to be acting - and above all writing - outside any known norms. DJ has shaken market confidence, and if that proves fatal to his business it will be sad - but surely predicatble?

I read Persephone's comment as what Dave will say - ie if it goes belly up it won't be his fault, it will be "the sharks on RMWeb" that bring about his demise.

[Oldddudders]

13 minutes ago, njee20 said:

I read Persephone's comment as what Dave will say - ie if it goes belly up it won't be his fault, it will be "the sharks on RMWeb" that bring about his demise.

I’m quite sure you are right. But I hope my observation will help chop that laughable claim against this thread off at the (wobbly) knees. 

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Ravenser said:

 

OO:

 

- Class 74 .                     Follow up to Cl 71. Collaboration with Kernow??  Crowd-funded. Cancelled - crowd-funders refunded by Kernow 

- Class 92                       DJM own brand . Crowd-funded . Pending - has CAD been shown? 

- APT-P                           DJM own brand . Crowd funded . Pending - no CAD show yet??

- Hudswell Clarke  ? 0-6-0T  - DJM own brand?- status unclear

- King                             Collaboration with Hattons  ? Dropped after Hornby produced theirs. Still theoretically a possible future project by Hattons??

- Q6                                DJM own brand . Dropped after Hornby announcement

- HUO                            DJM own brand . Crowd-funded. Dropped??? after Accurascale announcement

- F5 2-4-2T                    DJM/ F5 trust crowd-funded . Dropped? 2015

 

N:

- Class 92                      DJM own brand . Crowd -funded. Pending - has CAD been shown?

- Shark brake van        DJM own brand. Self-funded???  Pending - no CAD yet??

- King                            DJM in collaboration with Digitrains . Pending - any crowd-funding? . CAD shown - claimed ready to tool

- APT-P                          DJM with Durham Trains of Stanley. Crowd-funded . Pending - 119 of 400 expressions of interest recieved at April 2019

- J94                               DJM own brand . Crowd-funded. Expressions of interest 

- 63xx                             DJM own brand . Expressions of interest . 236 of 1000 needed recieved at April 2019. How funded?

- Class 17                       DJM own brand - reached EP - stopped by dispute with factory . Registered design

- Class 23                       DJM own brand . Will follow Class 17

- HUO                             DJM own brand . Crowd funded . Pending???. Dropped??? "I don't think this is a go-er" - Sept 2018

 

 

O:

- J94                             DJM own brand?? Dropped???

 

 

Quite a long list

 

 

 

It is, indeed.

 

I appreciate the archaeology is difficult given updates to websites, but IIRC we can add with some confidence:

 

- OO GWR Steamrailcar            DJM for Kernow - Going ahead but without any apparent DJM involvement

 

- OO LSWR Road Van                Ditto

 

Kernow can correct if that is not the case, but I believe that both these were originally announced as DJM collaborations.

 

As to the speculation that the business might be sold, this appears to be based on well-meant consideration of what the proprietor might do for the best, not on what the proprietor has indicated he might do, or, IMHO, what he is likely to do.

 

What would a purchaser want to buy the business for? According to the latest filed accounts, current net assets were only worth circa £14K.  What is there of value to buy?

CAD (faulty?)? 

Commissions order book (empty)? 

Crowd-funded projects (problematic by all accounts)?

Relations with/access to Chinese factories (!)? 

Goodwill (eroded brand value, essentially bound up with the vendor as designer)?   

I don't think sale is a possibility worth pursuing. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Edwardian
Posted before I'd finished!

[Covkid]

47 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

I was just browsing a retailers website and in N, in addition to the missing runs of Mermaids and the Sharks, there is a Turbot and a LSWR Road Van.

That is interestin i thought the LSWR road van was a Kernow contracted project.

 

Thanks to "Ravenser" and Mike for taking the trouble to try and flesh out the DJ Models catalogue. Although I don't model in the scale I thought there were to be at least two diesels in 7mm scale but you have corrected that thought.

 

This thread will clearly be sending waves of concern through folk who have invested money with DJM and he has the ability to calm those, if he chooses to.  For me, I am left wondering how a guy was seriously intending to produce such a catalogue of models with just a few thousand quid in the bank five years ago. Over the last few years figures of around a quarter of a million pounds have been bandied about for the design, tooling, production and shipping of a batch of a model locomotive.

 

Anyway, as others have suggested, perhaps we need to wait for Dave to step back into the office and give you crowd funders an update