Lenz LZV200 System and Automation - Problems

[PeterCB]

I sent my LZV200 (Entire Set 101) back to Lenz on Wednesday 29 May and got it back on Monday 10 June, I'm pleased to say that it works perfectly, I have called up all the feedback encoders and they are all being read correctly, I've also been using iTrain and can confirm no problems there, all feedbacks are being displayed as they should.

I re programmed a couple of encoders just to make sure It would write and read them, and again no problems.

There was another issue with the LZV200, each time it was plugged in the unit would flash and Off was displayed on the hand set, the unit had to be reset by pressing the knob this has also been rectified.

There was a letter inside the box basically an itemised receipt with the work listed, it read,

 

Software Modified

Software Update

Tested & In Order

Also a new update stick was included (not the one I sent back) although it is the same firmware version.

 

I cant fault the service from Lenz (as long as you write to them in German) my only niggle was the £10 postage to get it repaired.

Hope this info helps others with similar problems.

[RFS]

Glad it's all working for you now.  I'm astonished that after nearly 9 years of development and testing we both had this problem and that the fix was software. Perhaps you might expect them not to test with other manufacturers' kit (ie LDT RS8s) but for it not to work with their own products is pretty poor really. Were none of the beta testers using automation, I wonder?

 

If anyone is using Traincontroller, then to use the internal PC interface you now need to install 9.0B1 plus shell out €34 for a "+Hardware" licence from Freiwald. The code is all in 9.0B1 but you need the updated licence key to use it. No idea how big a change it was but everything else is working without the need for any changes. I'm continuing to use the 23131 LAN/USB interface for now. 

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, RFS said:

If anyone is using Traincontroller, then to use the internal PC interface you now need to install 9.0B1 plus shell out €34 for a "+Hardware" licence from Freiwald. The code is all in 9.0B1 but you need the updated licence key to use it. No idea how big a change it was but everything else is working without the need for any changes. I'm continuing to use the 23131 LAN/USB interface for now. 

That IMHO is even more cheek from Freiwald.

What's so different that you need an add-on at extra cost?

[WIMorrison]

@melmerby Is this setting a precedent in his eyes and when new functionality is introduced by Roco, Digikeijs, Zimo, etc does it mean that he can justify a licence increase based on the increase announced now?

 

Personally it seems very underhand to me.

[RFS]

9.0B1 includes a number of changes to hardware support (see https://www.freiwald.com/pages/hardwareplus.htm) with the LZV200 USB interface just one of them. Anyone purchasing version 9 after May 1st 2019 gets this for free, and presumably it will be part of version 10 if/when it appears. I don't what sort of revenue he generates through new licences and upgrades, but I assume he sees this as a means of adding to that. Perhaps V10 is a long way off and he's feeling the pinch!

 

Presumably any further hardware support changes will require a +Hardware licence from now on....

[PeterCB]

You should all be aware that Freiwald is charging UK citizens more (much more) than other EU citizens which is illegal under EU law, I have raised this with my local MP.

This was his reply,

 

Thank you for your recent email regarding the single market and member states charging different prices.

I have raised your case with the Minister at HM Treasury raising your query and asking for his response.

As soon as I have a reply I will let you know.

Yours sincerely,

 

Another point to be aware of if you do purchase from Feiwald you will be charged a hefty fee from your bank for buying in Euro s.

He can charge more if he had a UK based website but he hasn't so under EU law must sell to all EU citizens at the same price and not discriminate.

I was about to purchase TC when I got the new LZV200 but the programme kept freezing (I had to press Ctrl/Alt/Delete to free the computer up) I only found out about his discriminatory pricing when looking for a patch or a fix.

Have you guys purchased TC? if not check out iTrain I've had no problems with that and the LZV200, I wouldn't trust Feiwald you might end up loosing a lot of money buying extra add ons and licenses.

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pricing-payments/index_en.htm

[RFS]

1 hour ago, PeterCB said:

You should all be aware that Freiwald is charging UK citizens more (much more) than other EU citizens which is illegal under EU law, I have raised this with my local MP.

This was his reply,

 

Thank you for your recent email regarding the single market and member states charging different prices.

I have raised your case with the Minister at HM Treasury raising your query and asking for his response.

As soon as I have a reply I will let you know.

Yours sincerely,

 

Another point to be aware of if you do purchase from Feiwald you will be charged a hefty fee from your bank for buying in Euro s.

He can charge more if he had a UK based website but he hasn't so under EU law must sell to all EU citizens at the same price and not discriminate.

I was about to purchase TC when I got the new LZV200 but the programme kept freezing (I had to press Ctrl/Alt/Delete to free the computer up) I only found out about his discriminatory pricing when looking for a patch or a fix.

Have you guys purchased TC? if not check out iTrain I've had no problems with that and the LZV200, I wouldn't trust Feiwald you might end up loosing a lot of money buying extra add ons and licenses.

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pricing-payments/index_en.htm

 

This question of discriminatory pricing has its own topic here. 

[RFS]

An update on the current situation.  Lenz must have been unhappy that the LZV200 did not work with Freiwald's Traincontroller (TC) directly, and required a chargeable update from Freiwald ("+hardware" for €34). So having provided me with an LZV200 to fix the problem with the LDT RS8s, they asked me to test an updated one which also fixes the issue with TC. The LZV200 was advertised as having a PC interface that was identical to that in the stand-alone 23151 LAN/USB, but it seems it wasn't. With the latest fix it is, and I've been able to run Traincontroller using this built-in interface in the updated LZV200 with no problem at all. The politics of this I'll leave to Lenz and Herr Freiwald!

 

At present I'm running my layout with the LZV200 responsible just for the trains, and the LZV100 managing the turnouts, signals and the RS8 feedback via the RS-bus. Seems to work very well and is the configuration I had in mind when I first bought the LZV200. 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2019 by RFS

[RvSwol]

I understand that you have to buy a other piece of extra software  "+ hardware". then  Traincontroller v9B1 would work with the LZv 200.
After 4 weeks I finally get my LZ200 back from Germany tomorrow.
I have already ordered the + hardware but have not yet received it.
I will in any case give a feedback later.

 

Cheers,

 

Rupert

[RFS]

9 minutes ago, RvSwol said:

I understand that you have to buy a other piece of extra software  "+ hardware". then  Traincontroller v9B1 would work with the LZv 200.
After 4 weeks I finally get my LZ200 back from Germany tomorrow.
I have already ordered the + hardware but have not yet received it.
I will in any case give a feedback later.

 

Cheers,

 

Rupert

Yes, but Lenz are changing the firmware so that you don't need the "+hardware". However I doubt your updated LZV200 will have this firmware yet.  Freiwald's office is closed till the end of next week, so you will have to wait till then for your licence.  In the meantime the LZV200 works fine with the LI-USB or 23151 external interfaces.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, RFS said:

Yes, but Lenz are changing the firmware so that you don't need the "+hardware". However I doubt your updated LZV200 will have this firmware yet.  Freiwald's office is closed till the end of next week, so you will have to wait till then for your licence.  In the meantime the LZV200 works fine with the LI-USB or 23151 external interfaces.

Hi Robert

I assume that this firmware will be updateable via the update "stick" once Lenz roll it out?

(just a query for those currently in limbo with the LVZ200, as it will not affect me)

[RFS]

5 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Hi Robert

I assume that this firmware will be updateable via the update "stick" once Lenz roll it out?

(just a query for those currently in limbo with the LVZ200, as it will not affect me)

 

That I can't say - they sent me an updated LZV200 to test, so I don't know whether it was just software or not, but I would have presumed so. 

[RvSwol]

Today I contacted Lenz by telephone, where the promised dispatch of the LHV 200 remained.
I was told that a new batch of LHV200 power stations would arrive at Lenz in the 1st week of July. I asked that the old one could not be repaired instead of sending a new one. The employee stated that Lenz would rather send a new LHV200 than repair the old one
I tried what was the problem with the LHV 200, but he couldn't give an answer there.
We now have to wait for the package from Germany.
Sincerely,
Rupert van Swol

[RvSwol]

Hello model railroad friends
Today (after 7 weeks) I received the repaired and tested LZV200 back from Lenz. It was waiting for parts.
Unfortunately nothing was mentioned about what was done, but the logic board was replaced by another one. the old one was stuck in the housing, this is much more spacious.
The LZv 200 now works flawlessly with TC controller 9b1, but with the + hardware upgrade. TC 9 now works well via the USB on the LZV200 as a stand-alone, but also via the LAN / USB interface 2351.
For safety's sake, the plant has been tested again with Windigipet 2018 and, as expected, everything is 100%.
Personally, I think Windigipet is much more fun working and no hassle with extra payment to get a central implementation in existing software.
What remained was the vibration of switches when reactivating the LZV200 after an emergency stop command. This vibration stopped after I broke the CDE connection between the LZV200 and the LZ 102.
Then it quickly became clear in which circuit the fault had to look.
This turned out to be a wrong JK connection on the LB100. The two wires were exchanged and the fault was gone.
I then entered the error again and just replaced the LZV200 with the LZV100, with the same procedure this did not cause a malfunction.
Apparently the new system is more sensitive to closure than the old LZV100 with software version 3.6.

best regards
Rupert van Swol

[Guest]

On 10/07/2019 at 17:14, RvSwol said:

Hello model railroad friends
Today (after 7 weeks) I received the repaired and tested LZV200 back from Lenz. It was waiting for parts.
Unfortunately nothing was mentioned about what was done, but the logic board was replaced by another one. the old one was stuck in the housing, this is much more spacious.
The LZv 200 now works flawlessly with TC controller 9b1, but with the + hardware upgrade. TC 9 now works well via the USB on the LZV200 as a stand-alone, but also via the LAN / USB interface 2351.
For safety's sake, the plant has been tested again with Windigipet 2018 and, as expected, everything is 100%.
Personally, I think Windigipet is much more fun working and no hassle with extra payment to get a central implementation in existing software.
What remained was the vibration of switches when reactivating the LZV200 after an emergency stop command. This vibration stopped after I broke the CDE connection between the LZV200 and the LZ 102.
Then it quickly became clear in which circuit the fault had to look.
This turned out to be a wrong JK connection on the LB100. The two wires were exchanged and the fault was gone.
I then entered the error again and just replaced the LZV200 with the LZV100, with the same procedure this did not cause a malfunction.
Apparently the new system is more sensitive to closure than the old LZV100 with software version 3.6.

best regards
Rupert van Swol

Lenz recommended use theirs new booster LV103 which do have same version like LZV200.

I believe the old LZ102 will make disturb via CDE connection to the LZV200.

That´s way Lenz did present a new booster LV103.

[RFS]

27 minutes ago, Anders63 said:

Lenz recommended use theirs new booster LV103 which do have same version like LZV200.

I believe the old LZ102 will make disturb via CDE connection to the LZV200.

That´s way Lenz did present a new booster LV103.

 

The LZV200 brings new features such as the Global Railcom Detector, and the ability to set maximum track voltages etc. If you have multiple power districts, and also want those features there, then you need the LV103 for these additional power districts. But otherwise, the LV102 works perfectly with the LZV200 as I have tested. I have been using the LV102 just for turnouts so have no need of the GRD there, nor the need to manage track voltage.

 

I assume that at some point Lenz may introduce an offer to allow you to swap your LV102s for LV103s. 

 

Unlike the LZV200, there appears to be no means of updating the firmware in the LV103 if the need arises.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by RFS

[Guest]

Just in case to know it...Lenz has already stop produce old version of theirs system.

So only new upgraded system exist.

I am not sure if somebody do also have some problem by use booster LV103 too?

It´s same hardware and software in the LZV200.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Guest

[RFS]

Not sure I understand what you are saying? The issues with the LZV200 were firstly, that the feedback from occupancy detectors was not working, and secondly, that the internal USB interface was not working with Traincontroller (but was with other programs). Neither of these issues are relevant to the LV103. 

 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, RFS said:

Not sure I understand what you are saying? The issues with the LZV200 were firstly, that the feedback from occupancy detectors was not working, and secondly, that the internal USB interface was not working with Traincontroller (but was with other programs). Neither of these issues are relevant to the LV103. 

 

I did read your earlier post and you did write LZ102 as booster.

But i suppose you mean LV102?

LV103 replacement LV102 for the new system.

Sure you can use old booster too.

 

[RFS]

9 minutes ago, Anders63 said:

I did read your earlier post and you did write LZ102 as booster.

But i suppose you mean LV102?

LV103 replacement LV102 for the new system.

Sure you can use old booster too.

 

 

None of my posts mention LZ102! 

[John K]

Simple mistaken identity I think.

RFS mentions LV102 several times

John K

[Guest]

21 hours ago, RFS said:

 

None of my posts mention LZ102! 

Sorry...i mean Ruperts post.

[R1ch1ew]

I've just received my new LZV200 from Lenz.  I use Traincontroller Silver, I'm unclear on whether I need the Hardware Plus licence for the latest version of Traincontroller?

 

Can anyone help/update me?

 

Thanks

[RFS]

25 minutes ago, R1ch1ew said:

I've just received my new LZV200 from Lenz.  I use Traincontroller Silver, I'm unclear on whether I need the Hardware Plus licence for the latest version of Traincontroller?

 

Can anyone help/update me?

 

Thanks

 

If you want to use the built-in USB interface of the LZV200 then you do need the +Hardware licence and 9.0B1 maintenance level, but if you're using one of the earlier Lenz devices (eg LI-USB or 23151 LAN/USB) then you don't. 

[R1ch1ew]

Thanks for the feedback RFS, I'll check my setting then.  I've got a Lenz 23151 which I'm trying to connect to through the LAN port.  At the moment I cannot connect.  I've checked connections with the CV editor program, that works fine.