Digikeijs DR5000 + Lenz LZV100 + Traincontroller

[RFS]

As I've already logged elsewhere (see LZV200 Issues) I tried to upgrade my LZV100 to LZV200, but that has been a failure. The LDT RS8s didn't work, the built-in PC interface doesn't work with TC and the long-standing train tracking issue with the Lenz system has not been resolved. The LZV200 (actually SET101) has therefore been returned for a refund.

 

So I'm looking at a different upgrade path. My thoughts are now with the Digikeijs DR5000 but configured as follows:

 

. DR5000 for train control

. LZV100 for LDT RS8 feedback via the RS bus, plus turnout control (Tortoises connected to NCE Switch8s).

. Make the Lenz LH100 throttle connectable to the DR5000 - at least to start with.

 

Future plans would be to gradually replace the RS8s with DR4088LNs (to eventually dispense with the LZV100)  and also acquire a Multimaus in place of the LH100. The DR5000 only has 3A output whereas my LZV100 has 5A, but the layout is electrically split into two halves so it would be easy to add a second booster if needed. 

 

Is this a viable path?

 

Thanks

[WIMorrison]

Have you considered the Z21 rather than DR5000? 

 

It is is more expensive but then you pay for what you get

 

I know that some people here has issues with reliability going down the route you suggest but after moving to a Z21 I understand everything is hunky dory and consideration of replacing the RS-8s has been abandoned

[RFS]

26 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

Have you considered the Z21 rather than DR5000? 

 

It is is more expensive but then you pay for what you get

 

I know that some people here has issues with reliability going down the route you suggest but after moving to a Z21 I understand everything is hunky dory and consideration of replacing the RS-8s has been abandoned

 

OK thanks for a quick response. Does this mean the Z21 supports the LDT RS8s directly? Another issue I have is that the NCE Switch8s used for the Tortoises do not like Railcom.  Currently I operate them via a dedicated LV102 which has Railcom switched off. 

[WIMorrison]

No, the Z21 doesn’t and the others have retained the Lenz for feedbacks and loco control is with the Z21. The descriptions to me suggest that they have found that this works well - also with TC9 - and have therefore decided not to replace the RS8s with anything else because they are working in this configuration.

 

You can switch Railcom off in the Z21, not 100% certain that you can with a DR5000 but I would be surprised if you can’t.

 

If I was replacing the RS8s then I agree DR4088LN are a good choice and I would then connect them to the L-Bus on the Z21.

[Edwin_m]

DR5000 will interface with the Lenz RS-bus, although the are some wrinkles about getting it connected correctly (thread on here somewhere).  So I'm not sure you need the Lenz at all. 

 

Edit: I've just got round to actually trying this and it has been singularly unsuccessful. 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Edwin_m
New information

[RFS]

I currently have the 5A LZV100 controlling trains with Railcom enabled, and an attached 3A LV102 booster, with Railcom disabled, controlling turnouts via NCE Switch8 decoders that stop working if Railcom is enabled. I also have the LZV100 configured so that if a track short circuit occurs, it doesn't shut down the LV102. So I can still change turnouts in this situation - the usual cause of most shorts!

 

So I think I'm heading for an easy option: use a Z21 for train driving, and retain the LZV100 for turnout control and RS8 feedback.  At some time in the future I may consider replacing the RS8s with the Roco 10819s.

 

Thanks for your input.

[WIMorrison]

DR4088LN are  lot cheaper

[RFS]

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

DR4088LN are  lot cheaper

 

Indeed they are - thanks for the tip!

[MPL]

I tried unsuccessfully to integrate a DR5000 with my Lenz XpressNet recently.  Some features of the DR5000 worked as expected, but I had issues with all of my Lenz LH90 throttles (v3.6).  Specifically, they would lose the locomotive (flashing address) each time an engine went from one feedback block to the next.  My feedback modules are Lenz dual block detectors connected to Lenz LR101 encoders.   Additionally, using the LH90s to throw a turnout caused unexpected results.  For example, selecting address 10 under "SCH" would cause the throttle to immediately flash "PRO" as if it had gone into programming mode.  Selecting a different address might actually access the turnout.  Furthermore, 2 of my 3 or 4 Lenz stationary turnout decoders stopped throwing all the turnouts connected to them.  The LED on them would flash once as if they had received a command, but nothing would happen.

After a couple of weeks of changing settings, double-checking connections, addresses, software versions, etc. I finally gave up (something I don't like to do.) 

 

It's too late for me, as I no longer have the DR5000, but in the interest of science, I am curious if any past or present Lenz users have had a similar experience.  In this thread, I did see a post by Edwin_m that suggested he was not able to make this work, but his post was not detailed enough for me to interpret exactly what issues he encountered.

 

I've since reinstalled my Lenz command station and one booster, and everything immediately started working again as designed.

[Edwin_m]

What I definitely couldn't get to work was the Littfinski feedback decoders.  I spent a chunk of the summer wiring up Digikeijs Loconet feedbacks instead, which seemed to be working on initial testing but I haven't yet done a thorough test.  MERG turnout decoders seem to work fine.  

 

As to handsets, this was all prompted by my LZV100 plus LH100 combo going totally do-lally.  I may try connecting the handset to the DR5000 at some stage but it's not high on the to-do list and it may be where the fault is anyway.  

Edited September 30, 2019 by Edwin_m

[MPL]

Edwin, if it is of any help to you when/if you do connect your LH100 handset, my LH100 did not continually lose the locomotives like the LH90s.

(I did not try to access turnouts with the LH100.).   I just was not prepared to replace my entire Lenz block detection configuration at this time.

 

As an aside, it turns out my Lenz booster and command station are fine  - the issues that led me to think they weren’t was caused by 2 things: 1) the unchanged default settings of a Digikeijs booster that had been added to the system over a year ago, and 2) an NCE EB1 circuit breaker not performing as expected where all my other circuit breakers are PSX.

With both of those removed from the system, everything is working much better now.

Mike

[RFS]

Perhaps I should update this topic that I started with where I am now. As a result of the problems with the LZV200 which I purchased, and then returned, Lenz asked me to test an updated LZV200 which included not only the fix for the occupancy detector issue, but also had updated software to allow use by Traincontroller without having to purchase the +Hardware upgrade. Lenz have also said they will have further updates for their software for me to test in the autumn although I've no idea what these might be. 

 

So having an LZV200 courtesy of Lenz I've decided to stick with what I've got. The LZV200 is solely responsible for train running, with the LZV100 managing turnouts and feedback from the LDT RS8s. I've found this combination works very well indeed. I only need the one LH100 throttle as I hardly ever need to connect it to the LZV100 now, and almost all my interaction with the layout is via TC. I've been able to turn down the output voltage on the LZV100 to one which best suits the Tortoise turnout motors. 

 

I decided early on following feedback not to pursue the DR5000 option and instead looked at Z21. But my Lenz system is 5A and the Z21 only 3A, so I tried running the Lenz system with a TR100 3A controller, but it did trip after about 10 minutes of running full schedules with TC. It would therefore mean I'd need a Z21 + booster which would be over £700, plus the need to change the occupancy detectors. I'm 75 next birthday and really didn't fancy all the re-wiring work involved, especially as the layout seems to run vey well now with the Lenz configuration. I might instead splash out on a wireless LH101 throttle when they are available next year though.

[Anthony James]

Hello

 

I was just reading all this and was wondering if there was any update to the Lenz/DR5000/Z21  problems.  I looked into all this 4 years ago and decided to stay with my Lenz setup, but I do need a Roco WiFi MM now that I know they do not lose there info if the batteries run one, something that the first ones did do.  So it seems it is still the old problem, or, does the DR5000 work 100% with the Lenz RS bus now, if so I might go that way.  Any info would be helpful.

 

Regards

 

Anthony

[Anthony James]

Hello Again

 

I just checked Train Controller and it seems that the DR5000 is STILL not supported?

 

Regards

 

Anthony

[Graham Radish]

The dr5000 is supported, its under the digitrax/loconet system.

 

go on youtube and watch rudys modelrailway videos, in fact download them all, hes great.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Graham Radish

[Anthony James]

Hello

 

I have read through all the comments here, but I am not sure of this.  I have a Lenz LZV100, and a Lenz L101 booster.  This booster is connected and powers the lower part of my Layout which is double isolated from the top part, there is a Digikeijs/Roco CDE adaptor available to be able to use the CDE from the booster, but where do I plug it in, as the RS port is being used by the command Station?   the booster has 10 RS-8 attached to it, and I need of course to be able to use them.

 

any comments welcome.

 

Regards

 

Anthony

[Anthony James]

Hello

 

I know need to know where to plug in the Lenz booster using the Digikeijs CDE adaptor from the Lenz booster, that should do it for now.

 

Regards

 

Anthony

[Anthony James]

Hello

 

Just read the manual for the adaptor, all good.

 

Anthony

[Anthony James]

Hello

 

Hello

 

I finally got around to setting up my digikeijs DR5000, all went very nicely.  I can run trains, switch turnouts, all using the inbuilt throttle, or the Roco WiFi MM just so good to able to walk around the layout without a tethered cord, which I have tripped over many times. 

Connection is as follows. 

1. J to the Left side of the DR5000 as per the manual, and the K to the right side. 

2. The Lenz booster to the DR5039 CDE adaptor and then from the adaptor to LocoNet B on the DR5000 

3. The RS feedback to the RS feedback on the DR5000 which way the wires go I don't know, but I have tried it both ways and makes n o difference

Now comes the trouble. 

I have connected it to TC using first Lenz USB on Com 10 and then LocoNet on Com 11 TC then asked me to change everything from the old setting of Lenz to the new Lenz USB, all good.

I can change turnouts but there is no block detection, none of the sensors show up, one major problem is that when I turn on TC all engines have the sound on, which is very strange, I have cleared them all using each function but it still happens every time I boot it up?

Sorry about the full size of the attachments but i could not crop them for some reason.

 

Regards

 

Anthony

A

digi screen 2.docx digi screen 3.docx digi screen 4.docx digi screen 1.docx

Edited September 12, 2020 by Anthony James

[WIMorrison]

Anthony

 

As said elsewhere your screenshot 4 shows all feedbacks as assigned to the s88 bus (pink) therefore you will not see the RS Bus because s88 takes priority

 

 

The background for RS Bus needs to be purple - as shown in the guide at the bottom of your image that I show above (from screen 4 file)

[Anthony James]

Hello

 

I have tried to change as many things as possible to get a result, here is the latest, not really good enough, maybe it is the wiring or something?

 

Anthony

[WIMorrison]

This is looking better - but why are you starting at 554 and then having a break in the RS Bus from 562-577? Always better to have them consecutively numbered and starting at the beginning, no point in having 553 blank spaces before you start the numbering.

Edited September 14, 2020 by WIMorrison
spelling :(

[melmerby]

8 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

This is looking better - but why are you starting at 554 and then having a break in the RS Bus from 562-577? Always better to have them consecutively numbered and starting at the beginning, no point in having 553 blank spaces before you start the numbering.

Hi Iain

Under Lenz's convention RS bus devices used for occupancy detection normally start at block 65, each block has 8 inputs.*

(Blocks 1-64 are reserved for turnout position detection)

So the first plain numbered block starts at 65 x 8 = 520

But you don't have to start at 65, you can start at 1 if you want to!

For some reason the DR5000 does not tie up numerically but it should be in that region.

I did start a conversion RS to DR5000 table but I don't know whether i still have it, because as you know I gave up on the DR5000 and went to Z21.

 

*I have a feeling the RS-8 has address 65 as received and you have to change it to what you want/

I still use the DR5000 for testing however and can try a spare RS-8 with it if it would help Anthony.

Edited September 14, 2020 by melmerby

[RFS]

25 minutes ago, melmerby said:

*I have a feeling the RS-8 has address 65 as received and you have to change it to what you want/

 

A quick glance at the instructions confirms your feelings are correct! For reasons lost in the mists of time, my RS8s are numbered 90-97 ....

[Graham Radish]

On 12/09/2020 at 04:15, Anthony James said:

Hello

 

Hello

 

I finally got around to setting up my digikeijs DR5000, all went very nicely.  I can run trains, switch turnouts, all using the inbuilt throttle, or the Roco WiFi MM just so good to able to walk around the layout without a tethered cord, which I have tripped over many times. 

Connection is as follows. 

1. J to the Left side of the DR5000 as per the manual, and the K to the right side. 

2. The Lenz booster to the DR5039 CDE adaptor and then from the adaptor to LocoNet B on the DR5000 

3. The RS feedback to the RS feedback on the DR5000 which way the wires go I don't know, but I have tried it both ways and makes n o difference

Now comes the trouble. 

I have connected it to TC using first Lenz USB on Com 10 and then LocoNet on Com 11 TC then asked me to change everything from the old setting of Lenz to the new Lenz USB, all good.

I can change turnouts but there is no block detection, none of the sensors show up, one major problem is that when I turn on TC all engines have the sound on, which is very strange, I have cleared them all using each function but it still happens every time I boot it up?

Sorry about the full size of the attachments but i could not crop them for some reason.

 

Regards

 

Anthony

A

digi screen 2.docx 341.75 kB · 3 downloads digi screen 3.docx 397.51 kB · 4 downloads digi screen 4.docx 1.33 MB · 2 downloads digi screen 1.docx 1.34 MB · 5 downloads

Yup the DR5000 Is a massively underrated interface box, it basically does everything that units three times the price do and then some, mines not been switched off in 19 months and never crashed once, so those claiming unreliability issues are either using cheap cat5 cables or dodgy power supplies, since the dr5000 is basically a digitrax system protocol in traincontroller and jmri its winner winner chicken dinner, ill part with mine when nelson gets his eye back. there is absolutely no need to spend over 350 quid at all. the digikeijs ecosystem is wonderful, they cater for absolutely everything. just because the odd 1 or 2 people have had problems doesnt mean its a bad product lol, im wondering how many on here have had issues with the z21, no electronics are immune no matter the price. my x570 pc motherboard cost £600 and lasted just over 3 hours.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Graham Radish