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The Larass branch of the MGWR - Irish 2mm finescale 10.5mm gauge


Argos
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Thanks Pete,

 

That seems to be the consensus of opinion, although I can't disguise the fiddle exits without some unprototypical trees planted at the front of the layout.

 

Still, I suppose compromises have to made!

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On 20/02/2020 at 13:31, Argos said:

I've not made much progress on Dromahair of late as I've been focusing my modelling time on getting Glencruitten ready for the Macclesfield Model Railway Exhibition in mid March.

However, Although these have just arrived in the post and are tempting me to drop everything and dig out the soldering iron:-

 

 

718279898_MGWRwagonetches.jpg.221ca667ef4c96524be6c3c8a7de063c.jpg

 

They are the etches for JM Design's (John M on this forum)  MGWR horse box and refrigerator van kits reduced to 2mm.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/88975-j-m-design-mgwr-horse-box-and-meat-van/

John hasn't merely  reduced the size by 50% but also re-worked the W irons to work with our standard association components.

 

For the uninitiated the Midland Great Western Railway (no &, that was saved for the big island version of a similar name) ran into Sligo which was the southern terminus of the SL&NCR so wagons from the MGWR would be seen working north over the line to Enniskillen. 

 

I'm looking forward to getting started on these but I must contain my enthusiasm until the end of March!

There is something about a virgin, untarnished sheet of etch brass......

 

That looks very good. I agree there is something encouraging about a sheet of etches. I am not sure about the comma in the last line though.

 

I do find this quite and inspiring build. Never been to Ireland but from the photos a lot of places have an open look about them. 2mm is probably a good scale to achieve that.

 

Don

 

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Thanks Don,

 

I do find it slightly strange that such a little layout is providing so much interest. Still it's all the more encouragement to crack on!

 

Angus

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Well after a year's lay off I've picked up Dromahair, who knows it might even be ready for the June 2022 event!

867721352_ModuleoverviewMay21.jpg.f247b02446475d16621721962cfea098.jpg

 

I've even had a loco running, a C class diesel 3d print on a Tomix chassis with the wheels pressed out to near gauge. Still work to do on that!

The diesel 3d print was a gift from a fellow 2mm modeller along with a shot down etch of a 101 class 0-6-0 (GSR J15). Work has commenced on this starting with the tender chassis.

798183412_101tenderchassis1.jpg.44e65541455043b7dff364d69307a15c.jpg

 

The loco will eventually become no 106, with a 4'4" boiler it owned until 1937 complete with the GS&WR standard double smokebox doors.

The etch is quite complex but I've got a copy of the instructions for the 4mm kit and there are details of builds in 4mm and 7mm over on the Irish Railway Modeller website. Once I get this built this etch will have been built in 2mm, 4mm, S and 7mm scale.

 

1103704295_101etch.jpg.96f98533f83e3bbfbd05e2d638a29a19.jpg

 

I would be interested if anyone knows the whereabouts of any more of these etches, I'd quite like to build one in final condition with a Z type superheated boiler wheezing around in CIE days prior to withdrawal in the early 60s.

 

Finally I've almost finished the horsebox and meat van, I just need some number decals to finish before sealing and weathering.

978746668_MGWRvanslettered.jpg.b401e4ef6b7166be8ac276c8beaaeecc.jpg

 

 

 

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On the off chance that there is someone else out there tempted by 2mmfs 10.5mm gauge, I've approached JM Designs with a view to getting their GSWR 52 (D17) Class 4-4-0 and MGWR K class (G2) 2-4-0 etches shrunk to 2mm.

 

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/10040-2mm-scale-gswr-52-class-4-4-0-and-mgwr-ksgsr650-class-2-4-0/?tab=comments#comment-156454

 

GSWR 52 class:

Class D17 - 54 - Aspinall GSWR Class 52 4-4-0, built 1883 by Inchicore Works - 1925 to GSR, 1930 rebuilt with Belpaire boiler, 1945 to CIE - withdrawn 1959

 

MGWR K Class (G3)

Class G2 - 655 - Atock MGWR Class K 2-4-0 - built 1897 by Broadstone Works as MGWR No.29 CLONSILLA - 1925 to GSR - 1926 rebuilt, 1941 rebuilt with Belpaire superheated boiler - 1945 to CIE - 1954 rebuilt with round top boiler - 1961 withdrawn.

 

Go on,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you know you want to!

Edited by Argos
The MGWR loco is a G3 not a G2 as any fool knows.... even me! Nope it's a G2... the G3 is the ex WL&WR 2-4-0 designed by Mr Robinson later of GCR fame.
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10 hours ago, Argos said:

On the off chance that there is someone else out there tempted by 2mmfs 10.5mm gauge, I've approached JM Designs with a view to getting their GSWR 52 (D17) Class 4-4-0 and MGWR K class (G2) 2-4-0 etches shrunk to 2mm.

 

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/10040-2mm-scale-gswr-52-class-4-4-0-and-mgwr-ksgsr650-class-2-4-0/?tab=comments#comment-156454

 

GSWR 52 class:

Class D17 - 54 - Aspinall GSWR Class 52 4-4-0, built 1883 by Inchicore Works - 1925 to GSR, 1930 rebuilt with Belpaire boiler, 1945 to CIE - withdrawn 1959

 

MGWR K Class (G2)

Class G2 - 655 - Atock MGWR Class K 2-4-0 - built 1897 by Broadstone Works as MGWR No.29 CLONSILLA - 1925 to GSR - 1926 rebuilt, 1941 rebuilt with Belpaire superheated boiler - 1945 to CIE - 1954 rebuilt with round top boiler - 1961 withdrawn.

 

Go on,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you know you want to!

Sorry, but if I go to a broader gauge I’ll be following the one true path :jester:

Ian

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A grotty day gave me the excuse to do a bit more on the tender and get the basic body complete. 

 

499835419_101tender1.jpg.fc21ee95ef08137dbbec24da24f24467.jpg

 

 

A bit of cleaning up is needed and I can start on the detailing.

387447119_101tender2.jpg.32108ed869b6500c05ce9e0bd7df556d.jpg

I've also received the etches for the 52 class and the G2 (MGWR K class) mentioned above.

The G2 is a particular favourite so I've already got the wheels and motor ready for a start, I will finish the J15 first though, despite the temptation!

521668367_MGWRKclasskit.jpg.a32651d515e5ca1a9a4c8fe40022c252.jpg

 

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A bit more progress detailing the tender to report.

I've almost completed the soldering on the body, only the lamp irons, handrails and brake standard to add. I can then add some of the plastic details.

 

 

 

1291367857_101tender3.jpg.73003908e1e04986cc030a0459e7b047.jpg

 

652024607_101tender4.jpg.5c4f9b83f7c4db461c8e1dd591463508.jpg

I'm not convinced by those buffers though, I think I need something smaller!

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Good to see it coming together, Angus. Braver man than me. The wobbly loco footplate to come!

 

I think that you are right about the buffers. Generally steam age loco buffers are notoriously weedy.

 

Do you have a copy of 'Steaming in Three Centuries'? It tells you everything that you need to know about the 101/J15 class and very well illustrated. If you haven't i could lend you my copy.

 

David

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1 hour ago, DavidLong said:

The wobbly loco footplate to come!

 

Hi David,

I am quite fortunate in the fact that some kind soul has sent me the wobbly footplate pre-assembled :wink_mini:.

It is a bit of a cheat, but it will save me some time and I want to get a couple of locos and other stock complete for the DJLC next year.

 

1 hour ago, DavidLong said:

If you haven't i could lend you my copy

 

Thanks, I did buy a copy prior to starting the build, detail photos of the standard GSWR A type tender are a bit thin on the ground though. Lots of 3/4 loco shots mind.

I'm currently using the Association's 18" LMS buffers as these seemed to best match the drawings, I'm going to replace them with the 16" versions, I'm hoping these will be in better proportion, if not I'll have to turn up my own (my reluctance to doing this is I'm not convinced I could get four identical buffers made). I think a coat of paint will also help.

 

Class J15 - 130 - McDonnell GS&WR Class 101 0-6-0 - built 1882 by Inchicore Works - 1902 rebuilt, 1925 to GSR, 1945 to CIE, 1947 rebuilt with Belpaire boiler - withdrawn 1965 - seen here at Cork in 1932.

 

Note this tender has extended raised section to increase coal capacity to the version I'm modelling.

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I decided I couldn't live with the buffers and have removed them until a replacement set arrives from Shop 3. Apart from the lamp irons on only other soldering job on the body is the handrails which I'd not been looking forward to, I always manage to reduce these to a blob of wire and solder just as I add the last piece.

 

Careful clamping and the use of aluminium hair grips as a heat sink ensured success this time with the assembly including the handbrake being assembled  from 0.3mm brass wire.

 

1418207418_101tender5.jpg.fb92deef2e8ba40dd05feec447d1a5bd.jpg

I don't want to add the remaining details, which are plastic, until I've soldered the buffers in, so a start has been made on the loco chassis.

 

The etch is too thin to use the chassis as is, so I'm going to use the etch as a guide to cut out the frames from phosphor bronze sheet.

 

1321395724_101chassis1.jpg.a80b456ad7a4e360fc277644dfdf81cd.jpg

Two strips of phosphor bronze and the etched frame were clamped together and soldered with a blow torch. The coupling rod etch was then added to act as a guide for drilling the axles. 

 

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A productive day drilling, cutting and filing has resulted in a presentable set of frames.

 

I managed to snap a carbide drill whilst drilling the holes to mount the brakes so had to revert to an HSS drill and drill slight under hence one of the holes is out of line. It will be hidden by the brakes so no great drama.

 

The springs in the photo are waiting to be soldered onto the tender.

 

891527337_101chasisfullypreped.jpg.3bf9ebca90df77256bce3dec0ee36343.jpg

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Nice re-use of the etched frames.  I prefer a more "heavy-duty" frame than is provided by etching, although the convenience of them is tempting. 

A good quality sharp HSS drill ought to be perfectly OK for phosphor-bronze. 

 

Looking forward to seeing more progress on this

Mark

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I've found that pb bearings on 10thou frames (etched or cut) to be perfectly adequate. You just have to be careful that everything is perfectly square when soldering them to the pcb spacers. 

 

Jim 

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Thanks both,

 

I have a suspicion that these etches are than 10 thou, the tender chassis was very flexible when made.

To be honest I've  not had much joy with getting a reliable working 2mm loco chassis so I'm hoping the heavy duty approach bears fruit.

But then I am always a bit ham fisted with things.

I nicked the idea of 30thou PB frames off Tim Watson, if it works for him......

 

The HSS drills worked fine, I just didn't have a 0.3mm shanked HSS drill, and my straight shanked 0.3mm drill was too small for the collets on my mill.

I do have a small pillar drill with a fine chuck for just such a purpose, but do you think I could find the chuck key...............:banghead:

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I've been a bit quiet of late on the modelling front, just dabbling with bits since my last post in July, however with a free weekend thanks to the weather and some Irish 3d printed vans landing in the middle of the week  a couple of afternoons at the workbench had them up and running

 

807442181_3dprintvans.jpg.26041d0b63993dfe58abedc0de0684a7.jpg

 

The prints were designed around the Associations 13.7mm axles and these drop in with a bit of fettling, I'm not sure about the longevity of having the steel axles run in a 3d plastic bearing but I can always retro fit some brass pin-point bearings if they wear out. 

1946429511_3dprintvansSWB.jpg.a4ab451492227db31f5365953fc34493.jpg

 

1775983427_3dprintvanscattleandconvertable.jpg.f36bd00217a145d7f2f2f7c70eab3416.jpg

The corrugated rooves were made from some thinned down corrugated plastic sheet and formed around a wooden handle and dunked in boiling water(my razor saw was just the right diameter). The brass bars on the cattle van are easy enough to install as the designer (KMCE on Irishrailwaymodeller.com if you are interested in some) had printed locating dimples on all the uprights to guide the drill.

 

A couple of afternoon's work yielded five vans (there is another cattle van but I've run out of wheels) which gives my Irish stock a much need boost. I still need to add some detailing and work out how to model the canvas centre sections on the convertible vans. I've previously used a technique described by Gordon Gravett in an edition of MRJ a few years back for some 7mm scale wagon tarps, I'm just struggling to lay my hands on the copy.  I was worried this might feel a bit too much like "open the box" modelling, but there was enough to do to make it interesting. I'm definitely sold on 3d printing now (even if does mean re-learning CAD), I just need to save my pennies.

 

28865884_3dprintvansthreeinarow.jpg.da87ce628f780c6a89a10961f5cda877.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

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A while ago I was gifted a 3D printed C Class body. I've always liked these little diesels and found them very charismatic so I've been Looking forward to using it to build a more accurate version.

 

I've bought a Tomix chassis which is dimensionally close to the prototype dimensions, the bogie wheelbase is correct but the bogie centres are 2mm (a scale foot) too close together. That's a compromise I can live with. I need to fit the correct diameter wheels and widen the gauge to 10.5mm from standard N.

 

1386005064_CClasstesting(2).jpg.8f4a77cf60aea4da271dda0401bd49a0.jpg

 

The body looks to be an old print, I'm not sure what the material is as it is tough and flexible rather than usual hard and brittle product from the likes of Shapeways. it certainly is not a modern resin print! It does suffer from striation in the print, which given the smooth sided appearance of the real things needs work.

Looking closely at the body the details are quite naïve and also in need of improvement.

I was struggling to find detail shots of the locos, particularly in original Crossley engined format which is the version I want to model. The original engines were purchased in 1956 as part of CIE's dieselisation programme and were only rated at 550hp. Much like the BR Class 28 Metrovicks (also using the Crossley engine) these were similarly unreliable and re-engined with a more powerful General Motors unit generating twice the horsepower.

Whilst there are plenty of 3/4 photos of the locos in the stunning Irish scenery, detailed shots and roof shots in particular are hard to come by. There is a drawing widely available but not the most detailed:C201.jpg.594a6b2d30e9dfef662844fb8ee147d

 

So I was struggling a bit until I found this little gem:

 

 

This clearly shows some great detail on the roof and some interesting comparisons between the pre and post engine conversion body detail. The drawing above for example appears to have the post conversion roof vents but with the earlier sized radiator grills and fan housing. I had never appreciated the difference in size of the fan!

 

I decided to bite the bullet and remove all the detailing from the body (barring the marker lights). This made sanding the body back to a smooth surface relatively easy. A couple of evenings measuring up the various detailed photos got me a set of dimensions that check out against the various sources so reconstruction could begin.

 

First task has been to recreated the roof panels from a single piece of 10 thou brass sheet. This is the first time I've used the cross slide on my GWR rivet press in anger, but I'm pleased with the result. The rivet impressions are probably a bit oversize, but again a compromise I can live with, I've also drilled out the lifting eyes, fan housing and exhausts. These can be fitted once the roof panel is attached to the body.

 

1353122047_CClassroof.jpg.24a326a6c4d6a58be2c6299c844db6b0.jpg

 

I just need to roll the roof panel to the correct profile for the body (which is proving a tad tiresome!)

 

I've also been addressing some of the other short comings with the C Class body.

The 3d print is missing the distinctive cut aways run back from the buffer beams and finishing under the drivers door. These are particular visible in the green paint schemes I am intending as these are coloured black and contrast against the green body sides (as seen in the photos below linked from Irishswissearnies's Flickr site)

 

Ballina C232 4sep62 s059CIE 1960-09-13 Mallow C217 DT17-21

 

The areas that require removal are shown on the photo below. The return under the drivers door is curved so would be awkward to create with files.

 

1281253102_CClasssideunmolested.jpg.4cdc19c35eef62d4b73f8f8584c73956.jpg

 

In the end I carefully set the body up in my mini-mill and used a 3mm milling bit to remove 0.5mm from the required area in stages so as not to over-stress the plastic body.

 

653294902_CClasssidecutoutmilled.jpg.fec1b52ff4ecc6e15bfbc20ed0441e47.jpg

 

I was pleasantly surprised how successful this was, I was half expecting to be left with some melted gunk only suitable for the bin!

Whilst I was at it I also took out the notch on the underside of the buffer beam.

 

2080067119_CClassbufferbeamnotch.jpg.f7ed21fc38998ee42d396df672413443.jpg

 

The body is looking a lot more C Class like now although I still need to add the footplates at the front either side of the coupling (with lamp irons) and the thickening on the buffer beam that the coupling is mounted on. Then I need to start work on the Chassis and grills etc.

 

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I've finally got the roof on the C Class at the third attempt.

For the first attempt I used superglue to attach the brass panel. This set too quickly and well before I could get the panel accurately positioned, so the panel was prised off and the residual glue sanded back and cleaned up.

For the second attempt I used some 5 minute epoxy, this gave me chance to clamp the panel down, but try as I might I couldn't get the ends to sit flush. So once the glue was set the panel was prised off again, the glue sanded off and cleaned up again.

After a bit of pondering I realised the problem was that plastic print was domed front to back and so raising the end of the brass roof panel at either end (I was trying to bend the panel along the length of the arch, no chance!). Whether this was a fault with the print or as a result of my sanding when I removed the roof detail I don't know, anyway, a few minute filing with a straight file result in a flat roof which the brass panel sat neatly on.

 

1829702710_CClassroof1.jpg.49ff9329e45c7689b98b2e6ba6357331.jpg

 

With the roof on I've added the exhausts which are simply brass tube cut to size. I did use the lathe to drill out the centre of the tube to thin down the walls a bit more first. For the fan vent I turned down the outside of the tube a few thou to create the rim then soldered on some fine mesh. I still need to make and add the centre dome and fan to finish it.

 

662655353_CClassfont1.jpg.fefdc04b8b2211470302fee9eba2fa0e.jpg

I've also got the buffers fitted. I always find that a transformational step in any build, the loco face suddenly appears. The front footplates and coupling stiffener are now fitted to one end, they still need a bit of tiding up though.

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Just recently I invested in a NOS Mitutoyo dial gauge, so over the weekend I fitted a stainless steel plate to the wooden base of my watchmakers lathe to hold a magnetic clamp and mount arm.

 

Using this I finally managed to work out why I couldn't take accurate depths of cut taken using my cross-slide. I had presumed (being a European manufacture)  that the cross-slide would metric so each full turn of the handle (and associated dial numbered 0-9) would be 1.0mm with each increment being 0.1mm, it turns out that each full turn is 0.75mm (30 thou) so each increment is 0.075mm! Who dreamt that one up!

 

As I had the lathe out I set about turning down some brass rod to create the fan for the C class. I didn't quite cut the angles correctly so this falls in the "good enough" camp rather than the exact scale model but as it only just visible behind the grill I'm not encouraged to re-make it.

 

 

890594609_CClassfan.jpg.589caf5a0c92c3977c809318f6b4df9b.jpg

The fan itself is only 4.5mm in diameter.

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  • 4 weeks later...
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4 hours ago, Spoonerite said:

Angus, have you received the J15 etch I sent to Lake Road, Tony

 

I have indeed Tony. I was wondering who my mysterious benefactor was! 

 

Many thanks for this. I will keep it in store to either build or to pass on to someone else modelling Irish Railways in the future. 

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