Wessex(ish) Main(ish) Line

[Schooner]

Well, it's been another foul weekend outside, which has meant another afternoon on SCARM inside for me!

 

This time I've been working on a corner of the Grand Plan (which, while still vast, has changed in tone considerably from the last idea posted here - happy to PM the whole thing if anyone's interested, but for now let's ignore it  ). This corner, with about 10'x10'/3050mm available, represents the most populous area on the layout, although the place itself is off-scene. In this corner, I would like:

• 90 degree turn, obviously, but much easier said than disguised...
• Branch- to main-line junction, including
• some degree of 'busy' trackwork, but mostly so as to be
• suggestive of a large town, with full goods facilities, a well developed industry or two, gasworks etc as well as station just out of view to the right
• ideally an engine shed. I see this as supporting the idea of it being the outskirts of a relatively large facility. Doesn't have to be Westbury or Laira, but a place to suggest (and generate) a decent level of traffic; distract from the right-angle and provide it's own little operations area. And, of course, to display and keep out of my greasy mitts the most beautiful locos on the layout!

This is how far I've got under my own steam:

The idea is that, from the top, we have the GWR main line, coming from the South West. This is met by a LSWR branch, and the preliminary throat for the station and trackwork for shed access...

...before the lines disappear from view (towards a staging and fiddle yard) bottom right.

 

I'm afraid I've got a couple of specific questions, unlike with the brickworks!

 

Junction: Firstly, is the junction okay? I think I've followed accepted practise, but I've plenty to learn. Is the set of facing points from the branch ('C') to the relief line ('1') too much?

 

Trackwork: We are still firmly pre-Grouping (1905-1915), and I'd like the station shared between LSWR (who run the branch) and GWR (main line) if it doesn't break too many norms. Does the track plan a) allow for and b) suggest this? If not, could it? Would the LSWR be likely to use a particular platform consisently? Say it was a platform accessed by the upper line ('1'), would branch trains be more likely to run from here ('1) to the branch via the double crossing to '4' and then through the junction, or via 'wrong-line' running straight back down the branch?

 

Engine shed: it doesn't feel like a great use of the space (a triangle c.1500mmx2100mmx2600mm*) but does do everything I want of it, and follows Trowbridge (about the desired level of facility) reasonably well. I think I'd working it with coaling and water on the loop**, if that doesn't raise too many eyebrows? This deviates from the prototype, largely because so does the trackwork! The shed meets the following requirements: stabling for 6+ tender locos; siding for coal trucks; turntable with easy access to the main line.

 

Can I get more from the space? Should I be asking more from the facility?

 

Cheers for looking, if you have an opinion please feel free to share it, whatever it is

 

Schooner

 

* 'tho I think some kind of access at the corner would be good...

**Argh, hadn't realised how ugly it was! I've just gone and improved the flow of the track here, but functionally it remains the same.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by Schooner
Brickworks link crowbar'd in, just incase this generates any crossover interest :)...and spelling

[The Stationmaster]

The only thing which strikes me as not coming out 'right' are the connections to the LSWR platform.  The reason for this is because as it stands some of your comments imply that it would be used by LSWR train in both directions - is that correct?   If it is correct it includes what amounts to quite a length of bi-directional running which strikes me as not really right for that era.  Hence in answer to your subsequent question LSWR trains returning to the branch would depart from Platform 4 - easily done on the track layout you have drawn  as described below

 

The only significant omission is the lack of a (trailing) crossover between the Main Lines - which would be achieved by providing two single slips in the connection between Lines 1 and 4 (and of course that connection allows an arrived LSWR train to propel back across the layout onto the siding where it could run round before propelling back into Platform 4).

 

Overall I reckon it's a layout with a very strong indication of era and place, especially if you add the two single slips to make the Main Lines crossover (and keep that branch connection to the LSWR bay as unidirectional for Up trains only). 

[KeithMacdonald]

As Teignmouth has been mentioned a few times (Teignmouth station, Teignmouth docks, and Teignmouth Gas Works), I wonder if this is still available?

 

Heljan Teignmouth station kit

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/7216/heljan_ah2_teignmouth_station_building_kit/stockdetail.aspx

[Schooner]

On 17/02/2020 at 11:28, The Stationmaster said:

...especially if you add the two single slips to make the Main Lines crossover (and keep that branch connection to the LSWR bay as unidirectional for Up trains only)

 

It has been made so! Thank you for your time, it's great to get such clear advice  

 

I'm possibly over-cautious about including slips in the layout - they seem to recieve a lot of negative press based on their tight radius - and there was a trailing crossover just off-scene before the staging yard, but if they're right then they're right and let's have them. In fact, these are the only two...but now the ban is lifted I feel Kingswear's pre-loco-release track plan would benefit from one to ease carriage siding shunting...

 

The running suggestion also narrows down whose engine shed it is (LSWR), and narrows the search for useful prototypes to look at for operations inspiration: Yeovil Town, Basingstoke, Salisbury, Barnstaple's stations many and various are at the top of the list. Should I be looking at others? I was pleasantly surprised to see Yeovil's shed layout wasn't dissimilar to where I'd got by messing about with Trowbridge.

 

On 17/02/2020 at 12:24, KeithMacdonald said:

Heljan Teignmouth station kit

 

I hadn't seen that before, thank you! Whilst Teignmouth isn't on this iteration (a journey down a South Devon river, referencing Steer Point on the Yealm, Topsham on the Exe and Kingswear on the Dart), there definitely will be a version where Teignmouth is swapped in for Kingswear and it's dead handy having information for useful kits to hand

 

Cheers,

 

Schooner

Edited February 19, 2020 by Schooner

[KeithMacdonald]

I'm glad you mentioned Steer Point on the Yealm. That seems to be a nice little corner of the GWR that gets very little mention on the way from Plymouth to Yealmpton.

 

I like it for its little station, the brick works and the landing place. The kilns had their own tramway as well.

 

 

 

 

[Schooner]

On 19/02/2020 at 18:15, KeithMacdonald said:

The kilns had their own tramway as well.

 

...just the kilns...?

 

...oooh, might as well:

 

Not much more than a straight rip of the railway, but who could ask for more  Tramway, on the other hand, massively expanded...but about as minimal as I thought could support a Hunslet or Kerr Stuart without viewers sniggering...

 

 A lovely little corner indeed

 

Cheers

Edited February 20, 2020 by Schooner

[Schooner]

The adventures in SCARM-land continued this weekend. The current activity is turning the Wessex and Devon sections of the Grand Plan into standalone layouts (hypothetical, but taken seriously to aid learning) to fit a space, c.42'x22' (real). This is part of a gradual and indefinite process of homing in on exactly what it is that I what and what compromises I'm happy with, to go alongside the learning about the prototype and the myriad aspects of modern railway modelling. The idea being that when life provides an opportunity to return to modelling, I'll be able to make the most of it.

 

The Journey so far has brought me to here (please excuse the rough and ready 'scenics', it's not really for public consumption but hopefully it makes the plan more legible) with the Devon run:

..the lower left corner may be familiar  

 

I quite like it, for a first attempt, but think I can improve a few things. In particular it would be nice to re-unite Topsham. This has lead to a full re-design from scratch, and that has opened up a much larger space for the junction/MPD/station approach section - a triangle c.15' x 16' on the perpendiculars, with a double track main line running through the 15' side and branch coming in along the hypotenuse. 

 

Requirements remain:

On 16/02/2020 at 19:36, Schooner said:

• 90 degree turn, obviously, but much easier said than disguised...[EDIT: off-scene to the left]
• Branch- to main-line junction, including
• some degree of 'busy' trackwork, but mostly so as to be
• suggestive of a large town, with full goods facilities, a well developed industry or two, gasworks etc as well as station just out of view [EDIT: also to the left now]
• ideally an engine shed. I see this as supporting the idea of it being the outskirts of a relatively large facility. Doesn't have to be Westbury or Laira, but a place to suggest (and generate) a decent level of traffic; distract from the right-angle and provide it's own little operations area. And, of course, to display and keep out of my greasy mitts the most beautiful locos on the layout!

 

Dear Layout and Track Design sub-forum, what would you do with these requirements and this space? The location is South Devon, c.1910, with a joint LSWR/GWR main line; the whole layout designed to illustrate a trip up the tidal reaches of a single (amalgamated) Devon river.

 

I've explored a minimal option (based on the idea, and Stationmaster Mike's feedback, above), which is fairly self-explanatory:

NOTE: The blue 'baseboard' is the available area for scenic boards, and is a limit, not a target. Actual baseboards can follow the trackwork fairly closely. Viewing area is the hypotenuse side; the right hand 'vertical' edge butts up against the branch line scenic run. There is another 4' x 3' to the left, with access but poor sightlines, to be used for the curves into the fiddle yard. Otherwise, not that much to say. Operations-wise the main interest is the propelling of stock from the up branch platform through the double crossing and into the bay platform (bay also used for parcels). Apart from that, it's 'just' a junction approach.

 

I'd appreciate feedback on the layout and facilities of the MPD. Ideally this would be shared, though a LSWR facility - how would the split be managed and how is it best demonstrated on a model? A version with an even more relaxed MPD, based closely on Trowbridge (which I rather like, couldn't justify why!) would, I think, be for one company only:

 

All opinions gratefully recieved

 

So far so good...

 

...but...

 

..I'm learning that my balance of interest in freight vs. passenger workings seems to be in about the same relationship as that of the real railway. Passengers are all well and good, and one wouldn't want to be without them, but they're just not as fun  The above offers little operational interest to match this. With the space avaiable, it seems rude not to at least try to fill it  The alternative Maximum Winkie version follows:

 

The first thing I want to say is that the branch loop junction is provisional only and recieved very little attention! The reason of having a branch loop junction at all is to allow twice the apparent traffic on the Suburban scene (above) as the Branch scene itself: a branch train leaves the station, takes the branch, and goes through the branch return loop junction and around the branch loop as a 'Down' train; it returns to the Suburban scene as an Up train. It sets off again, but this time takes the other route through the branch return loop junction, this time being seen on the Branch scene as the returning 'Up' train, before heading back through the Suburban scene for the station. Does this makes sense? Does it work?! Might it as well just be a double slip...?

 

Yard/branch return loop junction detail 

 

Does the rest of it make sense? Does the rest of it work?! It's properly pushing me outside my area of (limited in the extreme) knowledge, and I would really appreciate some feedback. I've leaned heavily on period OS maps of Newton Abbot and Yeovil - the latter providing the MPD and the amazing (to me, I'd never come across anything like it before) goods facility pretty much verbatim. The fitting together of the pieces has left lots of scope for error, and, I'm sure, room for improvement, with which I could use some help. There are question marks over GWR shed location and likely industries which I would appreciate some advice on. As ever, information on how to reflect time and place are very welcome. As per usual, within moments of looking at it in a post, I can spot problems I'd missed previously (the Up main should really have a straight run through the scissors into its platform* - a textbook mistake when messing about with real trackplans I've made time and again). I would like to say that it looks a lot nicer in SCARM's 3D viewer than it does in the plan view

 

Throat detail

 

There are some operational question marks too, but the train simulator module of SCARM has been put to some use and the general idea does seem to work. I don't want this post to be any longer, and I'm sure you can follow what goes where, but very briefly - the bay handles branch and parcels; the bi-directional road serves as relief and for reversing traffic, through/slip coaches etc; the Up refuge/exchange siding allows a full range of goods vehicle movements to take place on-scene, but was initially put in to deal with coal trains and get them from the Up line (on which they might have come from Kingswear) into the off-scene goods yard, where they can be broken up and sent about their business; the goods road goes to the (off-scene) main goods yards of the town, the on-scene one serves a industrialised suburb only (the aim being varied traffic, but not overly heavy - I'm thinking of it as a glorified shunting plank, with small locos dealing with 3-4 wagons or so at a time, fetching and carrying from the main yard as well as sorting stock on-scene). There's plenty of stock storage for coaches (GWR), wagons (LSWR) and locos (both). Kitchen sink included.

 

MPD detail

 

Cheers then, all the best, and take care,

 

Schooner

 

* Only a quick bash, but something like:

Edited March 23, 2020 by Schooner
EDIT:Spelling... EDIT 2...mostly... :) a couple more details added, sorry! EDIT 3: The trackwork of the maxed-out version looks a lot less ugly in 3D, honest!

[mdvle]

Some initial thoughts (yes, it appears you are already moving on, but still they seem to apply to some of your further designs)

 

You have an awful lot of benchwork/scenery - and scenery, like other aspects of this hobby, is time consuming and on your scale a significant cost.

 

Topsham Village - upper tracks are apparently 5' from the layout edge - maintenance or rescuing trains along there is effectively impossible.

 

You have a lot of areas that need to be accessed without direct walking in - which means ducking under (or maybe sitting on a low chair to roll under the benchwork.  While these are often easy to do when young, they become less appealing and more troublesome as one gets older.

 

Generally unless we get lucky attempting to create a model of a real place is more about creating the illusion of the place - instead of taking track layout as an absolute instead use certain characteristics of a place - signature buildings or monuments for example - to create the familiarity even though be necessity the track work is wrong.  So for example Topsham Quay, instead of having the 90 degree turn to the track keep it straight - this then means you can move that entire section up against the outer wall, given access to the upper track along the wall there and eliminating a lot of scenery - create the illusion of space with a backdrop, which is a lot cheaper.

 

 

[mdvle]

1 hour ago, Schooner said:

Dear Layout and Track Design sub-forum, what would you do with these requirements and this space? The location is South Devon, c.1910, with a joint LSWR/GWR main line; the whole layout designed to illustrate a trip up the tidal reaches of a single (amalgamated) Devon river.

 

With a 20'x40' space, I would rethink everything and likely just do the Kingsbridge branch in O.

 

With OO, I would do the Kingswear line - but not Kingswear.  Bump to the 1940s/1950s, Paignton and Goodrington Goods (shed / yard - not the passenger station).  Paignton in that era had coach sidings as not all coaches went down to Kingswear, so lots of operational possibilities just with the passenger portion, and the "new" goods shed at Goodrington was a quite substantial building so likely generated a lot of traffic, with bonus on Saturdays got taken over by passenger operations.  Perhaps also do Torre, which could be the first thing built and operated, offering goods shunting.

 

As for more towards what you want, again a bit of a rethink.  With some significant compression you could get the feel of Exmouth Jct. Shed, and if you really want a branchline heading off a shifting of the junction to the east of the shed would be an acceptable compromise.  Make the Exmouth line perhaps a little more interesting, and then you have Exmouth with its subshed.  Maybe, given your are going fictional, have the GWR come in from "elsewhere" and Exmouth is shared by the GWR and LSWR, shift the LSWR subshed to be a GWR subshed and you can have a shed for both railways on the layout.

 

 

1 hour ago, Schooner said:

 

I've explored a minimal option (based on the idea, and Stationmaster Mike's feedback, above), which is fairly self-explanatory:

NOTE: The blue 'baseboard' is the available area for scenic boards, and is a limit, not a target. Actual baseboards can follow the trackwork fairly closely. Viewing area is the hypotenuse side; the right hand 'vertical' edge butts up against the branch line scenic run. There is another 4' x 3' to the left, with access but poor sightlines, to be used for the curves into the fiddle yard. Otherwise, not that much to say. Operations-wise the main interest is the propelling of stock from the up branch platform through the double

 

The problem (to me) is that while that is a nice space to much of it ends up wasted by the branch line coming off the main, and demonstrates the inherent problem in the model world of diverging tracks or wyes.  They simply take up too much space, and have accessibility problems.

 

1 hour ago, Schooner said:

..I'm learning that my balance of interest in freight vs. passenger workings seems to be about the same relationship as that of the real railway. Passengers are all well and good, and one wouldn't want to be without them, but they're just not as fun  The above offer little operational interest to match this. With the space avaiable, it seems rude not to at least try to fill it  The alternative Maximum Winkie version follows:

 

And of course, I believe mentioned previously on this thread and certainly on others, the difficult lesson often to learn is less is more.

[Schooner]

16 minutes ago, mdvle said:

And of course, I believe mentioned previously on this thread and certainly on others, the difficult lesson often to learn is less is more.

 

Sound advice which I'm not ignoring, honest! Just setting to one side for a moment  Thanks for it, and for your thoughts which I'll inwardly digest and incorporate in the coming weeks

 

The move to 7mm is something that's been at the back of my mind for a while, and will be investigated in due course. Bath Green Park has been giving me dangerous ideas...

 

Returning to the less-is-more point, especially regarding scenic space (which which I've been intentionally free), it's really helpful to have these  reminders and advice to keep each iteration a step closer to something that could be built. Thanks for your time

Edited March 23, 2020 by Schooner
EDIT: The other thing keeping me closely tied to copying reality so far is incompetance :) As I learn, I hope to be able to come up with reasonable trackplans of my own to achieve the requirements of my semi-fictional locations. Baby steps... :)

[Schooner]

Final crack at this version, aiming to smooth out the curves for non-stop expresses has got me to this:

Which has cost bay-to-branch access and an extra foot, but all survivable and I think the improved flow is worth it

 

In context then, this is where we're at for now:

 

Definitely on the wrong side of the diminishing return curve, so gonna call in a day there and start having a look at working Teignmouth into proceedings. After that, a stab at the Wessex run, then on to collating feedback and seeing where that leads (apart from Exmouth  )

 

Cheers,

 

Schooner

[Schooner]

And now for something completely different:

 

London docks in the 1880s

 

 

First crack at a layout to represent the London docks, inspired by the area around South Dock station. Initially filling 12'x8' shed, now it just fills one end - access from the top, but if the shed has doors at either end then there's a useful utility/modelling space, that also allows unrestricted access to the storage yard end which is essential.

 

Main thread to collate prototype information here.

 

A little look around

 

 

What do you reckon?

 

Cheers,

 

Schooner

Edited April 5, 2020 by Schooner

[KeithMacdonald]

On 29/03/2020 at 14:28, Schooner said:

Final crack at this version, ....then on to collating feedback and seeing where that leads (apart from Exmouth  )

 

Did I miss something? Has Exmouth been banned? It used to have a nice little spur line from the station down to two sides of the dockside. Plus a big red brick bridge for the Southern line to climb uphill from the station towards Littleham and onto Budleigh Salterton.

[Schooner]

My bad, I should have said '...where else that leads, apart from Exmouth which is already a given'! I've been a little distracted from this project, so not much new to show I'm afraid. Thanks for the gentle reminder though