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Graham1960

Making a class 76 in 4mm

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I have had a good look around and apart from the "collector's item" Olivias Trains expensive model, there is nothing really out there to buy. Even the £25 body offered by DC Kits, is no longer made despite the site's website "still" saying instock! Though after ordering one it took several weeks and an e-mail to say it wasn't available.

But if you want to model any section of the Woodhead line you have to have at least one 76! So there is now only one choice, but to make the thing myself.

The first thing I needed to sort out was the plans of the engine. And the book by Ian Allan Electric Locomotives in 4mm Scale provided that. With that, I was able to get some idea of the wheel arrangements and they are not standard with something like 45mm between axle mounts. This ruled out several commercial motor bogies, such as the class 25 and 20. The nearest I could get, was the class 91 from Hornby which is about 43mm. And I was in luck somebody was selling a working one for around £20 on E-Bay, I think there is one left too, but be quick! I also saw the rest of the underframe to a 91 going for a low price, so I snapped that up. I am not certain of the dimensions of this, but I think it can be adapted with a bit of effort. So I reckon that is the most expensive part of the model taken care of. At least getting it to move!

The bodywork next. These days it would be nice to have a body made, but the prices charged seem to be silly. I could afford a 3D printer, but it's the space needed to house it that's the problem. The outlay also makes it expensive for this model, though you could probably chuck out a load of bodies and get the costs back!

Instead I thought I would go with something less complicated. I have become a big fan of signboard, which comes in different thickness and is ideal for model purposes. You can get big sheets of the stuff for very little money and it's very light, but strong. I reckon the sides, roof could be done in 3-4mm signboard or White Correx Fluted Board as some places call it (link below). The cab front and sides might have to be done in balsa. 

I'm not intending to have power to the pantographs, which can be still sourced, thanks to the other model class 77 EM2. 

Incidentally White Correx Board, can be cut in-between the square holes in a long strip to make H beam girders, at a fraction of the cost that commercial companies charge. You will probable need the larger thickness of board for those. One thing you need to watch for is the bent sections that sometimes occur. If you try and cut one of these you will end up with a girder that has sides shorter than others. The cross section of a 9mm board shows this below.

White Correx board at Amazon   

 

board section.jpg

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Couldn’t you cut ‘n’ shut/heavily modify one of the many Triang EM2 bodyshells that abound on the secondhand market?

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2 hours ago, forest2807 said:

Couldn’t you cut ‘n’ shut/heavily modify one of the many Triang EM2 bodyshells that abound on the secondhand market?

If I had/got one of them I would build another EM2 from it, they are brother chip to the EM1 in price. To me it would be like cutting up a priceless antique to make a cheaper antique!

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6 hours ago, Graham1960 said:

If I had/got one of them I would build another EM2 from it, they are brother chip to the EM1 in price. To me it would be like cutting up a priceless antique to make a cheaper antique!

 

But everything in life has a different value to different people, if you ended up with what you wanted the "priceless antique" has served it's purpose?
If I wanted to do one of my drawings over the Mona Lisa and I could afford to buy it then it has served it's purpose too.

Whilst this maybe taking the thread in a different direction for which I apologise, some people get too hung up about the value and rarity of items.

 

Mike.

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15 hours ago, Graham1960 said:

If I had/got one of them I would build another EM2 from it, they are brother chip to the EM1 in price. To me it would be like cutting up a priceless antique to make a cheaper antique!

Sorry but that is nonsense. EM2 bodies can be picked up for £25 or less. Modifying a £25 body to create a bespoke, unique and therefore potentially far more valuable (if it is done well) model, one which you particularly wish to own, is not cutting up a priceless antique to make a cheaper antique.

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21 hours ago, Graham1960 said:

I have had a good look around and apart from the "collector's item" Olivias Trains expensive model, there is nothing really out there to buy. Even the £25 body offered by DC Kits, is no longer made despite the site's website "still" saying instock! Though after ordering one it took several weeks and an e-mail to say it wasn't available.

But if you want to model any section of the Woodhead line you have to have at least one 76! So there is now only one choice, but to make the thing myself.

The first thing I needed to sort out was the plans of the engine. And the book by Ian Allan Electric Locomotives in 4mm Scale provided that. With that, I was able to get some idea of the wheel arrangements and they are not standard with something like 45mm between axle mounts. This ruled out several commercial motor bogies, such as the class 25 and 20. The nearest I could get, was the class 91 from Hornby which is about 43mm. And I was in luck somebody was selling a working one for around £20 on E-Bay, I think there is one left too, but be quick! I also saw the rest of the underframe to a 91 going for a low price, so I snapped that up. I am not certain of the dimensions of this, but I think it can be adapted with a bit of effort. So I reckon that is the most expensive part of the model taken care of. At least getting it to move!

The bodywork next. These days it would be nice to have a body made, but the prices charged seem to be silly. I could afford a 3D printer, but it's the space needed to house it that's the problem. The outlay also makes it expensive for this model, though you could probably chuck out a load of bodies and get the costs back!

Instead I thought I would go with something less complicated. I have become a big fan of signboard, which comes in different thickness and is ideal for model purposes. You can get big sheets of the stuff for very little money and it's very light, but strong. I reckon the sides, roof could be done in 3-4mm signboard or White Correx Fluted Board as some places call it (link below). The cab front and sides might have to be done in balsa. 

I'm not intending to have power to the pantographs, which can be still sourced, thanks to the other model class 77 EM2. 

Incidentally White Correx Board, can be cut in-between the square holes in a long strip to make H beam girders, at a fraction of the cost that commercial companies charge. You will probable need the larger thickness of board for those. One thing you need to watch for is the bent sections that sometimes occur. If you try and cut one of these you will end up with a girder that has sides shorter than others. The cross section of a 9mm board shows this below.

White Correx board at Amazon   

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_05/1587740858_boardsection.jpg.a04f5795f3b7f9b7055a02914c9dcd41.jpg

Hi Graham

 

Have you considered using plastic card for the body.

Not an electric loco but an English Electric one.

680298295_Picture007.jpg.38d395a4876154d41d08013489c4c18b.jpg

Chassis

2147237220_Picture010b.jpg.b6b75e037c4f343de3ab832ce929b789.jpg

Body parts

936668472_Picture013b.jpg.03280cb968be0be2ce91a18bac218238.jpg

Start to make a box

 

1899316830_Picture015b.jpg.edcb58bfcd7e9609257d9e1d8465d2ab.jpg

The box

1353635320_Picture018b.jpg.9242876b80e7d07555a06266e5581371.jpg

Laminate the roof and ends

1864886130_Picture022b.jpg.d46b60ff77fe432121a73517ede70816.jpg

File to shape

225154987_Picture025b.jpg.0a5278d423003d59e45cf876851399b8.jpg

Add windscreen and filler

 

1884957785_Picture028.jpg.4a106999706ba36f7da686768f7b040b.jpg

Smooth down filler

 

2132157155_Picture034b.jpg.03ed74e0dcef451a7cb8629d31c40737.jpg

Add details

 

Contact me for a more detailed explanation.

 

 

 

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A class 76 should be a pretty good one to use that method on as it it a fairly simple shape.

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Class 76 sides aren't flat like the 77 but have a distinct curve from cantrail to solebar.

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1 hour ago, great central said:

Class 76 sides aren't flat like the 77 but have a distinct curve from cantrail to solebar.

From what to what? How much of a curve?

 

The thing with the EM2 is that to cut up an EM2 body, is a bit strange, when for £25 you can make another EM2, is the meaning I was trying to put across. 

Plastic Card looks very much like the Correx stuff. But I will look into it. Great Class 23 Baby Deltic, by the way, one of my favourite loco's though never saw one in real life, guess they never got up to Sheffield.

 

The class 91 motor came today, and guess what Hornby got the tolerance wrong, because it matches the 45mm from axial pivot to axial pivot!  Not 43mm!!

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47 minutes ago, Graham1960 said:

From what to what? How much of a curve?

 

Plastic Card looks very much like the Correx stuff.

Hi

 

The drawings should show the curve.

 

Personally I would use plasticard rather than Correx as it comes in various thicknesses, is easy to stick together using a liquid glue and can be filed to shape. The Correx you showed would be difficult to shape due to the nature of the cross section.

 

If you can still get them then Western bogies with the centre axle removed are quite close to the correct wheelbase.

 

It would definitely be worth you having a conversation with Clive if you’ve never done this sort of thing before.

 

Cheers

 

paul

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Watch out. A lot of EM1 drawings are incorrect. I believe the one in the Railway Modeeler by Mike Edge is correct. He did the master for the DC kits moulding and Judith Edge kits do the pantograph as a kit.

Baz

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The one in the Railway Modeller isn't mine, it has all the usual inaccuracies. I did put mine on here some time ago, can't remember which thread it was in. EM2 has little in common with EM1 and would be fairly useless to convert apart from the cabs. The body construction is quite different and as has been said the sides are flat, EM1 has a pronounced curve and much deeper frames. I am slowly working on an etched EM1 kit (I will need a few myself for Wentworth Junction), in the meantime we can at least supply pantograph kits.

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I am working on the Ian Allan drawings. I can't see any curve, even the end elevation has no more than 2mm sticking out from the underframe. The pictures of the real thing also don't show evidence of a "pronounced" curve. More like a slight bowing of the side!

The 91 bogie is not bad, it just needs to have detail on the sides. However there is a pencil tip object at either side and some rods, that need to be added.

 

The Correx shown was the larger thickness, I would be working with 2mm stuff, that's is very flexible and could bent to form any curve. I have loads of left over having recently made a paint rack out of it. 

 

Some guy on E-Bay has the pantographs, got 3 for £18 including postage. Two for the EM1 and one to replace one on an EM2.

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Posted (edited)

The body side is curved - it’s quite subtle.  You can see it in this picture:-

 

Class 76

 

I would second Clive’s suggestion to use plasticard rather than corex as it will be easier to bond and has strength in two directions (corex has strength in only one direction).

 

I might be wrong but the eBay pantographs you mention may be replacement “Triang style” pantographs rather than accurate representations of the real thing.  For the latter you really need the Michael Edge kit.

 

I do wish you all the best in your scratch building endeavours and it would be great to see photos of your progress.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

PS - what does the expression “brother chip” mean in one of your earlier posts?

 

PPS - there’s a Silver Fox resin Class 76 body on eBay right now.  Not sure if it’s a copy of the Trix version.

Edited by Darius43
PPS

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Here's the drawing again.

EM1RMweb.PDF

Moulded bodies labelled Silver Fox may well be the DC kits one, the shape of this was accurate but it's 5% overscale because someone told me to add that on to the pattern for shrinkage - which doesn't occur with these resins. Charlie did once say that he would get me to do another one if there was enough demand.

 

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12 hours ago, Darius43 said:

 

PS - what does the expression “brother chip” mean in one of your earlier posts?

 

PPS - there’s a Silver Fox resin Class 76 body on eBay right now.  Not sure if it’s a copy of the Trix version.

Brother chip means "it's like a bit taken from one brother to make another". Very common phrase in Sheffield! In that case it was the price of the EM2 body is the same of what it would be on DC Kits EM1, if they had one! 

 

The 76 Body on E-Bay is £50 and at that price it is not worth it, not for something that is just a bit of shaped plastic. From what I have seen from 3D printers, they could produce a full body with loads more detail and at a fraction of the cost.

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1 hour ago, Graham1960 said:

The 76 Body on E-Bay is £50 and at that price it is not worth it, not for something that is just a bit of shaped plastic. From what I have seen from 3D printers, they could produce a full body with loads more detail and at a fraction of the cost.

Not if you're getting your 3D print from a commercial concern! Shapeways would be charging around £70 or more for a basic body, more if in the finer plastic. Some home printers have managed to reduce the cost a bit, but this may not include the cost of the hardware they have acquired. Even with the latest developments you will still need to carry out a lot of final preparation of the surfaces before it is anywhere near the finish of a "shaped bit of plastic" during which some of the "loads more detail" will probably disappear, although I have no idea how good or complete the Silver Fox body is in comparison.

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5 hours ago, Graham1960 said:

The 76 Body on E-Bay is £50 and at that price it is not worth it, not for something that is just a bit of shaped plastic. From what I have seen from 3D printers, they could produce a full body with loads more detail and at a fraction of the cost.

 

Isn’t another term for a “bit of shaped plastic” a “model”.   I have very recently been assembling some bits of shaped plastic to form model railway coaches.  I believe they are called “kits”.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

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On 04/05/2019 at 18:42, Nick Holliday said:

Not if you're getting your 3D print from a commercial concern! Shapeways would be charging around £70 or more for a basic body, more if in the finer plastic. Some home printers have managed to reduce the cost a bit, but this may not include the cost of the hardware they have acquired. Even with the latest developments you will still need to carry out a lot of final preparation of the surfaces before it is anywhere near the finish of a "shaped bit of plastic" during which some of the "loads more detail" will probably disappear, although I have no idea how good or complete the Silver Fox body is in comparison.

When I was talking about 3D printing it was after looking at the video for this printer.

Anycubic i3 Mega 3D printer

 

 

By the look of this it would make all the fine detail, without any sanding at all. Plus at 19 cm the entire body could be made in one. 

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