Kevin 'Grand Designs' McCloud

[The Stationmaster]

I'm not absolutely sure if what we did would qualify as 'self build because we used various contractors to do the construction etc work although to my specification and I used a professional (not quite as 'professional' as he professed as it happened) to turn my plans into the right form and additional notes etc for Planning and Building Regs approval.  But I project managed most of it from site clearance (partly self done, partly by contractor) through the build phases bringing forward materials I was sourcing outside the main build contract.

 

As it happened the whole thing wasn't 'odd' enough for Grand Designs as all we were going for was a fairly ordinary looking 4 bedroom detached house.  Apart from an initial refusal of PP (mainly down to the idiot professional who ignored my instructions and added an extra bedroom in the roof space and unwarranted (in my opinion) concern about the 'street view' height of the roof ridge there were no planning problems and it was agreed without demur when I resubmitted the plans the way I wanted them (apart from the unwanted lowering of the ridge height).  And that was that - no delays - apart from the initial 'no' from the Planners and the dealt excellently with an idiotic objection from one neighbour who claimed they would lose light despite their house being on the south side of the plot.   Building Control were absolutely smashing to deal with, very professional but also helpful and informative as was the lady who came round to assess the banding for Council Tax.

 

And we basically came in on budget although I had purposely over specified the foundation. depth which meant the extra steel the structural engineer recommended was no problem as most of the foundation was on better ground than I'sd expected so was less expensive than budget.  I made one alteration to the position of internal (stud) walls during construction and the planners replied very promptly and with no objections once I'd sent them the drawing showing the detail of the revision.

[Colin_McLeod]

One of my neighbours self built a second house.  It was recently finished after 16 years of spare time construction! 

 

He enjoyed doing it but hardly at a rate that will solve the housing crisis lol

[Fenman]

17 hours ago, south_tyne said:

 

I agree with lots of what you say there. Planning and Building Regs are there for a reason and, despite what some folk think, we are all better off for them being there. I do get annoyed at his stock explanation of blame for a project falling behind due to 'delays by the planners' or 'planning red-tape'..... it's an easy win to blame LPAs but there will always be a reason in the decision-making process. 

...

 

 

I do find the hate for Kevin McCloud a bit mystifying. Of course he criticises things he thinks are mad (whether they are from planners, buiding inspectors, architects, suppliers and contractors, or clients). And of course the programme over-dramatises - it's a tv show, for entertainment, not a public service announcement on behalf of the town planning association.

 

But throughout his series he has been careful to engage with most sides of the story: for example, the relatively huge amount of air time he gave to professional planners in a programme where the convertors of an old organ factory were in passionate dispute with their neighbours, an opera company, over the type of brick used in repairing a party wall of a listed building. Who else on prime time telly has given such issues a fair airing?

 

As it happens, I think there's a need for both professions - town planners and building regs inspectors. But the professions themselves should take some responsibility for the fact that most (?) members of the public hold them in low esteem. It is the failure of the professions to persuade legislators which is at least in part responsible for the stuff that many members of the public hold in contempt (to give an extreme example to illustrate the point, the fact that I am unable to fit best-in-class low-energy LED lamps in my bedrooms because building regs insist that modern light fittings should be of the 3-bayonet type, which only take bulbs produced by a single company (yes, a monopoly supplier). who only produce CFL bulbs, not LEDs. At the same time as apparently all our tower blocks can be clad with inflammable materials. Yes, yes, in both those cases there were other parties involved, and big business too, and moneyed interests. But professions - legalised monopolies - exist to be able to rise above all that fray, and to act in the public interest against all those other moneyed interests. A profession which fails to gain public esteem, and therefore fails to be able to deliver what is in the public's interest, is a failing profession, locked into a probable death-spiral of public irritation => lower status => reduced influence => public irritation.

 

Slagging off Kevin McCloud is no substitute for those professions getting their acts together.

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

[cornelius]

My friend Chris, a keen 009 modeller, has built a writing hut / layout room in his garden, based on the design of a carriage. In fact it re-used the panels originally built for his prize winning Chelsea flower show garden.

 

http://chrisodonoghue.blogspot.com/2018/10/studiowriting-hut-re-purposing-iconic.html

[hayfield]

On 18/05/2019 at 13:42, wombatofludham said:

 

I'm a retired planner and I find McCloud irritating in the extreme. The way he seems to elevate self build to a fetishistic level and glosses over the "annoyances" of planning and building regs gives his dewy eyed trendy wendy disciples a completely wrong idea and false hopes of the building process.  Sites for self build projects are rare as hen's teeth and so the majority of people able to afford a new home will end up having to buy something off the peg.  Now if McCloud decided to turn his pontificating and ire on the real villains of the housing crisis - the big builders sitting on land banks of land with granted or allocated planning permission deliberately to reduce supply and increase profits, and got them to design houses people want of good modern design rather than twee Miss Marpleshire executive faux Victoriana with a worthless self-policed NHBC "guarantee", then I'd have more time for him.  It's very easy to gush about design in a one off rare as rocking horse dung self build, more difficult to actually affect real change in the big building companies who have been allowed to dictate the housing market by successive Governments of all persuasions.

I'd not come across the "quote" from Eric Pickles, a man on whom I wouldn't urinate even if he was on fire.  I too take that as a badge of honour and I'm tempted to have it made into a teeshirt.

 

Going off topic, I have a view opposite to yours, but more interested as the op is in his model railway interests

[hayfield]

7 hours ago, cornelius said:

My friend Chris, a keen 009 modeller, has built a writing hut / layout room in his garden, based on the design of a carriage. In fact it re-used the panels originally built for his prize winning Chelsea flower show garden.

 

http://chrisodonoghue.blogspot.com/2018/10/studiowriting-hut-re-purposing-iconic.html

 

 

Looks stunning, thanks for posting it

[johnofwessex]

Where I live in Frome was developed in the 1960's by the Urban District Council.

 

Basically they bought the land, laid the services & roads then sold off plots to either builders who could by a certain number or self builders.

 

One of my neighbours lives in a house her parents built, and at least two people I have known had parents who built their own homes - OK in both cases they were 'in the trade' but it can be done.

[Colin_McLeod]

My late father in law, who was not in the trade, built his own house in Cork in the 1950s.  My mother in law is still living there in her ninties.

[south_tyne]

16 hours ago, Fenman said:

 

I do find the hate for Kevin McCloud a bit mystifying. Of course he criticises things he thinks are mad (whether they are from planners, buiding inspectors, architects, suppliers and contractors, or clients). And of course the programme over-dramatises - it's a tv show, for entertainment, not a public service announcement on behalf of the town planning association.

 

But throughout his series he has been careful to engage with most sides of the story: for example, the relatively huge amount of air time he gave to professional planners in a programme where the convertors of an old organ factory were in passionate dispute with their neighbours, an opera company, over the type of brick used in repairing a party wall of a listed building. Who else on prime time telly has given such issues a fair airing?

 

As it happens, I think there's a need for both professions - town planners and building regs inspectors. But the professions themselves should take some responsibility for the fact that most (?) members of the public hold them in low esteem. It is the failure of the professions to persuade legislators which is at least in part responsible for the stuff that many members of the public hold in contempt (to give an extreme example to illustrate the point, the fact that I am unable to fit best-in-class low-energy LED lamps in my bedrooms because building regs insist that modern light fittings should be of the 3-bayonet type, which only take bulbs produced by a single company (yes, a monopoly supplier). who only produce CFL bulbs, not LEDs. At the same time as apparently all our tower blocks can be clad with inflammable materials. Yes, yes, in both those cases there were other parties involved, and big business too, and moneyed interests. But professions - legalised monopolies - exist to be able to rise above all that fray, and to act in the public interest against all those other moneyed interests. A profession which fails to gain public esteem, and therefore fails to be able to deliver what is in the public's interest, is a failing profession, locked into a probable death-spiral of public irritation => lower status => reduced influence => public irritation.

 

Slagging off Kevin McCloud is no substitute for those professions getting their acts together.

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

 

That's a little unfair. At no point did I 'slag off' Mr McCloud. I enjoy Grand Designs and think Kevin is a decent bloke who has done a good job in promoting sustainable design and construction and raise awareness to the general public. His programmes are accessible, informative and engaging. I also agree that Grand Designs is a TV show for entertainment and there needs to be a story and some drama to make it interesting to the viewer. However, it's not a one-size fits all solution - self-build is a niche market, mainly at the high end of the market, and will not alone solve the housing crisis in this country. An innovative planning system, which developers should adhere to, is the answer but only if planning professionals are given the scope and resource to implement a proper strategic approach. Unfortunately local authority planning department are under-resourced, under-staffed and routinely just 'fire fighting' to keep heads above the water. This lack of resource and support means that the opportunity to be innovative is rare. 

 

However, I will fervently defend my profession. There are very other jobs that are as routinely criticised and lambasted as town planners.  More so, it is a job whereby the 'average joe' often feels they "could do better" and "know more" than those qualified to do the job! People wouldn't be as disrespectful to a nurse or teacher. I have worked hard to become a Chartered Town Planner; five years at university, a decade working in local authorities and a rigorous submission process to fully qualify through my professional body. However, on a daily basis I am undermined and criticised just for doing my job. In the field of planning, it seems there is no room for an expert opinion in the 21st Century and I find that worrying. The modern planning system is built on public consultation, a good thing, but there still has to be room for qualified officers to make decisions and guide development. 

 

[Fenman]

2 hours ago, south_tyne said:

 

That's a little unfair. At no point did I 'slag off' Mr McCloud.

...

local authority planning department are under-resourced, under-staffed and routinely just 'fire fighting' to keep heads above the water. This lack of resource and support means that the opportunity to be innovative is rare. 

 

However, I will fervently defend my profession. There are very other jobs that are as routinely criticised and lambasted as town planners.  More so, it is a job whereby the 'average joe' often feels they "could do better" and "know more" than those qualified to do the job! People wouldn't be as disrespectful to a nurse or teacher.

...

The modern planning system is built on public consultation, a good thing, but there still has to be room for qualified officers to make decisions and guide development. 

 

 

Yes, I should have been clearer that I was responding to both you and the previous poster (who really did “slag off” McCloud), with whom you seemed to be in agreement. My post was already too long, but that’s no excuse for distorting it. 

 

Professions which face declining public esteem are often hugely defensive: architects would make the same complaints as you, that Joe Public thinks they know better, criticising stuff they don’t understand, and ignoring many of the most important things that architects do - volumes, flows, lifetime efficiencies, etc - while just being cross about aesthetics.

 

Local authority architects departments are not just underfunded - most have largely disappeared. Some were brilliant: Hampshire County Council is often held up as the model, and Hertfordshire’s post-War work on schools was incredibly influential. In public housing, councils like Camden are beginning to get more positive coverage (and soaring market prices suggests the public likes some of their tower blocks). But I came across architects departments that didn’t help themselves: one example, from Scotland, was a department which insisted that the even then-rare new-build public housing required their purpose-designed window handles to be manufactured (ie, hand-crafted) at huge expense to fit with the aesthetic. Those professionals were utterly out of touch with the real world. 

 

Town planners, like architects, shape the environments in which the rest of us then have to live. Anyone entering those professions should expect robust responses from the public, not grateful acceptance that the experts always know best. Just as the police can only effectively work with public consent, architects and town planners need public support: I’ve seen little evidence that they’re terribly interested in what the public thinks (rather than trying to brow-beat the public into accepting what the experts tell them).

 

I would argue that much Abercrombie-based planning theory - such as the deliberate separation of living from working from shopping - has created sterile hellholes where cars and roads take far too great an importance, where the things that many seem to love (mixed live-work environments in medieval European towns, for instance, where today houses, flats and local shops mingle with, say, a joinery workshop or a scooter repair garage) are forbidden. Some of the ideas may have been good in parts (eg, get polluting mega-factories out of towns) but they failed to see that mega-factories were themselves a dying problem. 

 

Is McCloud the solution to all this? No, of course not - and nor does he claim to be. But he’s done more than most to propose better solutions, and has even put his own money where his mouth is in building commercial developments based on his vision. 

 

I’m not sure what more anyone could reasonably expect from the man?

 

Paul

[chris p bacon]

7 hours ago, south_tyne said:

 

 An innovative planning system, which developers should adhere to, is the answer but only if planning professionals are given the scope and resource to implement a proper strategic approach. Unfortunately local authority planning department are under-resourced, under-staffed and routinely just 'fire fighting' to keep heads above the water. This lack of resource and support means that the opportunity to be innovative is rare. 

 

As a developer I am mystified by some of the decisions made by planning in this area (Central Bedfordshire) I always talk to them before an application and follow the advice given,  but it is so contradictory that advice given by one planner is refused by another.

My own experience is a planner asking us to change or withdraw an application (over the siting of windows) as he was going to recommend refusal, he then said if we proceeded we would get it on appeal anyway.    The reason the windows were an issue was because we had given the Conservation officer what he wanted, but he and the planner didn't speak to each other.

 

8 hours ago, south_tyne said:

However, I will fervently defend my profession. There are very other jobs that are as routinely criticised and lambasted as town planners.  More so, it is a job whereby the 'average joe' often feels they "could do better" and "know more" than those qualified to do the job!

 

This to me though is a typical statement from planning.  Maybe they do know the technicalities of planning law but they then ignore the fact that they aren't the ones living where an application is made and that sometimes those living there might actually know more about how an area functions.

 

A typical example where I live is a brown field site in the middle of town accessed from the Market Square, when the site became vacant it was presumed that it would become the site for a supermarket/food retail which a town of 13,000 didn't have. But no, Central beds deemed that the retail centre for the area would be Biggleswade (3+ miles away) and that it would go for housing.  At the time a supermarket was looking for a site and tried to negotiate with planning to have the site as commercial, but planning zoned it as housing. The supermarket (Tesco) then applied for permission on an out of town site (an old factory/forge) which was eventually given. So we now have housing in the middle of town without parking, and shopping on the outside of town that you need to drive to ....Ridiculous!   

 

Sadly it doesn't stop there, the same site that Tesco was built on crosses a road, the site is polluted as it was a forge and before that the town gas works. It is next to the ECML and is on the boundary of the town. That site has now been given permission for 33 'units'*, but the cost to clean it up for housing is so high that it's now coming back for 45 'units'  

*These 'units' are such poor quality housing (no opening windows, no amenity areas, next to a 125mph railway, insufficient parking)  that we should never contemplate building such things. 

 

I have respect for planners but I get very frustrated with the lack of decision or contradictory advice and the time taken to process an application. (24 weeks is the average around here with some at 30 weeks plus)

[Joseph_Pestell]

Let's also remember that the planning "system" involves both unelected officers and elected members at councils. And often the "system" locally is constrained by the existing law more than what they would want to do locally.

 

The professional "experts" (i.e. the trained officers) will often make a recommendation that is ignored by the elected members. I have seen officers in total despair having told the planning committee that a scheme should be allowed and then asked to find some reason to justify the committee's decision to refuse. They can not square this circle and so the scheme gets through on appeal at vast cost to the taxpayer (and usually at great cost to the developer as well although sometimes costs are awarded against the council).

[Joseph_Pestell]

On 18/05/2019 at 19:27, The Stationmaster said:

I'm not absolutely sure if what we did would qualify as 'self build because we used various contractors to do the construction etc work although to my specification and I used a professional (not quite as 'professional' as he professed as it happened) to turn my plans into the right form and additional notes etc for Planning and Building Regs approval.  But I project managed most of it from site clearance (partly self done, partly by contractor) through the build phases bringing forward materials I was sourcing outside the main build contract.

 

As it happened the whole thing wasn't 'odd' enough for Grand Designs as all we were going for was a fairly ordinary looking 4 bedroom detached house.  Apart from an initial refusal of PP (mainly down to the idiot professional who ignored my instructions and added an extra bedroom in the roof space and unwarranted (in my opinion) concern about the 'street view' height of the roof ridge there were no planning problems and it was agreed without demur when I resubmitted the plans the way I wanted them (apart from the unwanted lowering of the ridge height).  And that was that - no delays - apart from the initial 'no' from the Planners and the dealt excellently with an idiotic objection from one neighbour who claimed they would lose light despite their house being on the south side of the plot.   Building Control were absolutely smashing to deal with, very professional but also helpful and informative as was the lady who came round to assess the banding for Council Tax.

 

And we basically came in on budget although I had purposely over specified the foundation. depth which meant the extra steel the structural engineer recommended was no problem as most of the foundation was on better ground than I'sd expected so was less expensive than budget.  I made one alteration to the position of internal (stud) walls during construction and the planners replied very promptly and with no objections once I'd sent them the drawing showing the detail of the revision.

 

Yes, you definitely count as "self-build".

 

Most of my experiences with local planners have not been good - even to the extent of one telling a bare-faced lie to a planning inspector at an appeal. Much happier experiences generally with building regs inspectors who are generally helpful and enthusiastic.

 

It's a pity that the programme was named Grand Designs. Some are not all that "grand" and it would be helpful to give more people the encouragement to build their home than can afford the bespoke stuff.

 

For anyone that is interested in self-build, there is an excellent permanent exhibition/advice centre at Swindon.

[Colin_McLeod]

.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Colin_McLeod
I decided to remove my post as being OT