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Dapol or Lionheart pannier


Chris Dark
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Evening all,

 

i was was hoping I could gain some advice on the difference between the two panniers. I am aware of the price difference, although I have the opportunity to purchase a lionheart version for £280, I understand the lionheart version is metal not plastic which makes it a fair bit heavier. I’m really wondering if the lionheart version is worth the extra money and what the main differences between the models are, apart from what I stated above.

 

All advice is appreciated.

 

thanks 

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I've had both, and apart from the weight, there is no discernible difference, both run superbly.

 

I've had Zimo Chips in the Dapol, and ESU in the Lionheart, again both performed superbly with no difference other than the F2 Braking on the Zimo version.

 

All the best.

 

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The Dapol pannier gives the choice of 57XX or 8750 types. The Lionhart pannier (now also sold by Dapol) is a smaller 64XX or 74XX variety. I have a Dapol 74XX (ex-Lionhart) and it's superb. 

 

My 8750 pannier is by Minerva, which is also excellent.

 

You probably can't go wrong with any of them, but the smaller panniers are really nice.

 

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One might say that there is quite a difference between the Dapol and Lionheart panniers.  They are of different classes;  the GWR and BR(W)  developed their 'standard' panniers to replace a whole host of both  the elderly panniers some of which had been converted from saddle tanks and many of the tank engines absorbed into the GWR at the 1923 grouping.  From a work point of view, you should find the 64xx (L) almost exclusively working passenger trains of the auto variety.  The 74xx (L) was a 64xx sans auto gear and had a greater tractive effort.  They were used for light freight and passenger duties where the extra power of a 57xx/8750 pannier (D) would not be required.

 

Remember Minerva) also produce 57xx and the updated 8750 variety of pannier.  This was one of the largest classes of locos in the UK and were truly maids of all work.

 

From a model point of view  the major mechanical (as opposed to cosmetic) difference is that the Lionheart versions have a belt drive between the motor and gear box. 

 

What you need to do before committing to purchase, because although the prices are keen it is still a considerable outlay, is to think about what your model loco is going to be doing once you get it working on a layout.

 

It may be that for what you envisage, one class may be more appropriate than another.

 

I have both the ex Lionheart 64xx and 74 xx and I am delighted with both of them.

 

Likewise I have both the 57xx and 8750 pannier tanks, but mine are the Minerva variety and not the Dapol versions.  These are also excellent performers.

 

A friend has a Dapol sound fitted 57xx and he is delighted with it.

 

They are all a great way into 7mm modelling, and I'm looking forward to further releases from the manufacturers mentioned above.

 

(I was typing the above when CK replied)

 

Edited by Happy Hippo
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Other than the differences pointed out by Richard in the previous post the 74xx had smaller diameter driving wheels and a higher boiler pressure than the 64xx hence the higher T.E.  The 64xx and 74xx had a much lighter axle load and hence greater route availability than the 57xx so were used on lighter laid branchlines where the larger 5t;s couldn't go. As regards the respective models (I haven't got either) I understand that the ex Lionheart model has a toothed belt drive whereas the Dapol 57xx has a conventional drive.

Ray.

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I've got all of them.

I have 4 Minerva Panniers, 1 Dapol Pannier and one of the ex-Lionheart 74xx Panniers.

I've decided to standardise on the Minerva as they are superb runners, but also as the class is so huge, the Minerva version gives the necessary alternatives to cover most variations.

The 74xx though is certainly a splendid model, and as mentioned there is a belt drive from the motor to the gearbox and it is a very smooth and heavy runner. The loco body is die-cast.

 

Here is a video of my 74xx on a short test run after fitting sound.

 

 

 

 

Hope that helps in some way

 

Jinty ;)

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Thanks all very the very helpful and quick replies. 

 

I sm tempted by the Lionheart due to the good price I am being offered, however if there is significant difference between running quality and details I’m inclined to go with the Dapol version. Stock wise it would be on b set stock and local branch freight, set in early BR pre 1950.

 

does the Dapol fine with the glowing firebox like the Lionheart?

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7 hours ago, Marshall5 said:

Other than the differences pointed out by Richard in the previous post the 74xx had smaller diameter driving wheels and a higher boiler pressure than the 64xx hence the higher T.E.  

I’m afraid not. The 74xx and 64xx classes had the same size driving wheels - the 54xx were bigger. The difference in TE is down to the different boiler pressures of the 74xx and 64xx classes.

Dave

 

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8 hours ago, Chris Dark said:

Thanks all very the very helpful and quick replies. 

 

I sm tempted by the Lionheart due to the good price I am being offered, however if there is significant difference between running quality and details I’m inclined to go with the Dapol version. Stock wise it would be on b set stock and local branch freight, set in early BR pre 1950.

 

does the Dapol fine with the glowing firebox like the Lionheart?

 

 

Dapol version and Lionheart models both have glowing fireboxes.

I know that the firebox light is visible and attributed to the coal shovelling at the end of the video above.

You will need an early BR crest Pannier for that period.

 

Jinty ;)

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So it sounds like running quality are pretty similar, loco detailing is the same, only real difference being weight and build construction.

 

are the new Dapol panniers different again? Is it worth waiting for them? 

Edited by Chris Dark
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A mix of re-run and they are also bringing out the riveted tank version of the 57xx: Almost certainly just a detail difference on the tanks moulding.

 

There is a prominent screw visible on the side of chassis of the older Lionheart version. Most not bothered but worth mentioning. I think the newer Dapol model is slightly more refined personally.

 

Depends on personal preferences: I like the older style cab, the Dapol 57xx is cheaper and it’s a very good model so I didn’t really have to think about it.

 

Just a thought but might be worth researching when top feeds were fitted for early 50s. I’m sure I’ve seen my chosen loco without one in in early BR days but with one later. Minerva do with or without in each livery whereas Dapol don’t.

 

Edited by Hal Nail
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2 hours ago, Chris Dark said:

So it sounds like running quality are pretty similar, loco detailing is the same, only real difference being weight and build construction.

 

are the new Dapol panniers different again? Is it worth waiting for them? 

 

loco detailing is`nt really the same as Dapol  87XX and 57XX are the only Panniers to have a fully detailed chassis including an Ashpan, correct double brake pull rods around the rear drivers, correct pattern wheel profiles including the characteristic GWR tapered spokes and axle `dimple` and a semi working valve gear between the frames and better detailed brake hangers.  The weight is just fine.  Dapol have clearly upped their game with the involvement of Richard Webster (The Lionheart King)

DSC04821.JPG.141666357f74f643c0b19102c2cbf7b7.JPG 

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The metal finish on the Lionheart does make it look the bees knees, unfortunately I don't think any of my local model shops have  Dapol version in stock to compare with. how much is it to add sound chip and speaker? generally?

 

 

Edited by Chris Dark
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for a quality decoder (Zimo) MX645 and Zimo double dumbo speaker £120.  I removed all the Dapol 21pin gubbins as I don`t like flickering lights in a cab.

DSC04806.JPG.abea050db1745b8e57dbbeb9feb1a22d.JPG

 

and did a similar job for the Lionheart.....

 

DSC02398.JPG.470e5c2ee9e3bc6700186595b7ee36ea.JPG

 

Youchoos and digitrains do very good sound files......

 

This is the Youchoos......

 

 

 

and this is the Lionheart.......

 

 

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On 06/05/2019 at 05:50, daifly said:

I’m afraid not. The 74xx and 64xx classes had the same size driving wheels - the 54xx were bigger. The difference in TE is down to the different boiler pressures of the 74xx and 64xx classes.

Dave

 

Of course, senior moment there. Must learn not to post late at night!

Cheers,

Ray.

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  • 3 weeks later...

That original video from Jintyman is one of the best DCC steam sounds I have heard. Most of them sound too hollow and unbeleivable (as opposed to diesel sounds) but this is top notch

 

Paul R

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3 hours ago, pwr said:

That original video from Jintyman is one of the best DCC steam sounds I have heard. Most of them sound too hollow and unbeleivable (as opposed to diesel sounds) but this is top notch

 

Paul R

 

 

You wouldn't believe the size of the bass reflex speaker I managed to shoe horn into it!!!

It's coupled to a Zimo MX644D decoder.

Most people who have heard it in the flesh have loved it.

 

Jinty ;)

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