DMU dividing/combining at Oxford late 1980s?

[jamespetts]

I have seen reference somewhere - I forget now where - to the suggestion that local services to and from Oxford formed of DMUs (especially in the Network SouthEast sector) in the 1980s would divide/combine for peak hours strengthening purposes; however, I have not been able to find much in the way of detail of this, and the photographs, which I suspect are almost all taken off peak, do not show anything that appear to be these workings.

 

Does anyone have any idea whether this was done, and, if so, what units combined with what where and when (in the day as well as in what years that this happened)?

 

I should be most grateful.

[GeoffAlan]

I'd imagine it would be a case of one consist being added onto another.

[jamespetts]

19 hours ago, GeoffAlan said:

I'd imagine it would be a case of one consist being added onto another.

 

Yes, that's the only way that I can imagine it working. Does anyone have any details as to whether and if so how this was done (i.e., what consists were added to what others and when, etc.)?

[Fat Controller]

They might show in the Carriage Working Notices; otherwise, there should be references in the Working Time Table. These might take the form of a train arriving at a platform as 2***, then two trains leaving the same platform, one as 2**1, and the other as 3 (or 5)**1. The latter would be the Empty Coaching Stock movement. Bear in mind that the most  detailed you're likely to find is the train identification, and the Diagram number; the sets that would stop would be particular to a given day. Stock for Oxford trains might be stabled off-peak at Southall, Reading, or Oxford itself. If you're looking for times, then I'd reckon on about 09:30 for sets being split and stabled after the Morning peak, then the converse happening from about 15:30 onwards.

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

They might show in the Carriage Working Notices; otherwise, there should be references in the Working Time Table. These might take the form of a train arriving at a platform as 2***, then two trains leaving the same platform, one as 2**1, and the other as 3 (or 5)**1. The latter would be the Empty Coaching Stock movement. Bear in mind that the most  detailed you're likely to find is the train identification, and the Diagram number; the sets that would stop would be particular to a given day. Stock for Oxford trains might be stabled off-peak at Southall, Reading, or Oxford itself. If you're looking for times, then I'd reckon on about 09:30 for sets being split and stabled after the Morning peak, then the converse happening from about 15:30 onwards.

And any splitting/joining in respect of peak hour workings might well have happened in the sidings anyway where it would have been far easier.  However sets might well have been dealt with in the station if they were trains splitting or joining.

[Compound2632]

I can't remember if this happened pre-Thames Turbos but once they were introduced it was commonplace to divide / combine trains at Oxford, for the Worcester line certainly, not sure about Banbury, with only the front set going the whole distance; thus providing the capacity for the busy Paddington-Oxford section without excess mileage.

 

I really can't remember what the Worcester trains were like pre-Turbo.

[Fat Controller]

16 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I can't remember if this happened pre-Thames Turbos but once they were introduced it was commonplace to divide / combine trains at Oxford, for the Worcester line certainly, not sure about Banbury, with only the front set going the whole distance; thus providing the capacity for the busy Paddington-Oxford section without excess mileage.

 

I really can't remember what the Worcester trains were like pre-Turbo.

They were loco-hauled in most cases.

[Joseph_Pestell]

13 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I can't remember if this happened pre-Thames Turbos but once they were introduced it was commonplace to divide / combine trains at Oxford, for the Worcester line certainly, not sure about Banbury, with only the front set going the whole distance; thus providing the capacity for the busy Paddington-Oxford section without excess mileage.

 

I really can't remember what the Worcester trains were like pre-Turbo.

 

Peak trains were loco-hauled from Paddington to Worcester/Hereford.

 

Off-peak, there were 155s, before they became 2 x 153, at one time requiring a change from London at Oxford. Did this with my father and A.N. Other (a very camp C of E canon) to attend a funeral in Worcester. Not sure of the year but same year as 25th anniversary of N Gauge Society.

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Peak trains were loco-hauled from Paddington to Worcester/Hereford.

 

Off-peak, there were 155s, before they became 2 x 153, at one time requiring a change from London at Oxford. Did this with my father and A.N. Other (a very camp C of E canon) to attend a funeral in Worcester. Not sure of the year but same year as 25th anniversary of N Gauge Society.

 

47s or 50s?

 

155s - how unpleasant.

 

I knew a canon once but he was fired.

 

1992.

 

[jamespetts]

Interesting - thank you all. I will have to see if I can track down some carriage working notices or a WTT. I have electronic copies of Paddington carriage working notices, which are useful for the longer distance trains, but not for locals to Oxford.

 

As for the Costwold line trains, the photographic evidence shows (and the timetables confirm) that these were either locomotive hauled through trains from Paddington or 155s (or 150s for a period while the 155s had been temporarily withdrawn to have their doors fixed - this is the period that I am modelling) on stopping services, terminating at Oxford, so these would not have divided/combined.

 

What I am more interested in for these purposes is the local services to Reading and whether these would have been augmented during the peaks by units stored during the off peak period at Oxford (or alternatively at Reading).

[eastglosmog]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

47s or 50s?

 

155s - how unpleasant.

 

I knew a canon once but he was fired.

 

1992.

 

As I recall, on the Cotswold line it was mainly 47s in the 70s and mainly 50s in the 80s, before HST's swept the lot away.

[caradoc]

IIRC In the early 80s BR proposed withdrawing all loco-hauled trains (and therefore the through London services) from the Oxford-Worcester route due to the poor state of the track; They relented and retained two London trains each way, Up in the morning and Down in the evening. The service has improved again over the years and the state of both the infrastructure and the train service now bears no comparison to those dark days !

[Joseph_Pestell]

16 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

47s or 50s?

 

155s - how unpleasant.

 

I knew a canon once but he was fired.

 

1992.

 

 

Perhaps 21st anniversary then? They held an exhibition somewhere in Harrow to celebrate. By 1992, I was living in France. Definitely still living in London at the time of this trip.

 

As to locos, I think it was more often 47s than 50s with the occasional 31 thrown into the mix.

 

I found the 155 quite OK although view out was a bit restricted. 155s is what BR should have bought more of rather  than 142s/143s/144s.

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

16 hours ago, jamespetts said:

Interesting - thank you all. I will have to see if I can track down some carriage working notices or a WTT. I have electronic copies of Paddington carriage working notices, which are useful for the longer distance trains, but not for locals to Oxford.

 

As for the Costwold line trains, the photographic evidence shows (and the timetables confirm) that these were either locomotive hauled through trains from Paddington or 155s (or 150s for a period while the 155s had been temporarily withdrawn to have their doors fixed - this is the period that I am modelling) on stopping services, terminating at Oxford, so these would not have divided/combined.

 

What I am more interested in for these purposes is the local services to Reading and whether these would have been augmented during the peaks by units stored during the off peak period at Oxford (or alternatively at Reading).

 

James, I think that takes us back a few years more when a lot of Paddington - Oxford services were 1st generation DMUs. The Oxford trains would be semi-fast only stopping at Ealing, Slough and Maidenhead. Weekday peaks it would be the "posher" DMUs on the Oxfords and other types on the stopping services. But off-peak and weekends, the situation could be more mixed up.

 

And of course the London Division of WR just loved to cobble together hybrid DMUs.

[BrushVeteran]

My recollection of the late 70's early 80's was of 116's, 119's and 120's providing the all stations stopping services between Worcester and Oxford, usually terminating in one of the bays at Oxford. I have a couple of slides somewhere I'll try to dig out.

[jamespetts]

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

For reference, the period in which I am interested is 1989, when I believe there were almost no Paddington to Oxford DMUs (these would return with the Turbos circa 1992) apart from a late night service (as shown in my passenger timetable of that year), and when the DMU services were Reading to Oxford stopping, Oxford to Bicester (usually a single class 121), Bicester to Reading (one a day each way in the evening peak), Oxford to Banbury (two hourly), Oxford to Great Malvern stopping and Oxford to Worcester stopping.

[jamespetts]

I have recently managed to get hold of a working timetable for the 1989/1990 season covering the whole Paddington to Oxford route. This timetable clearly shows where trains divide and combine, as there are symbols specifically for this. From what I can see, there are no dividing/combining DMUs shown at Oxford in this timetable season.

[jamespetts]

I have now obtained a copy of Oxford station working for the May 1989 - October 1989 period (i.e, the timetable period immediately preceding that of the working timetable that I found; this earlier period more accurately matches the period that I wish to model).

 

Unlike the working timetable, this shows the following DMU shunting movements:

 

(1) the 2C86 0051 arrival at Oxford (Mondays only) is a 6 car DMU comprising two three car trains; this shunts to the carriage sidings at 0054 and divides to form the 2C07 0530 to Reading and the 5C05 0450 ECS to Didcot Parkway;

(2) the 2F01 0159 arrival at Oxford (0001 departure from Paddington) is marked as a DMU and has instructions, "detach van for 4M17 (2023) to Birmingham. Shunt to carriage sidings at 02+30"; the DMU is then kept in the carriage sidings overnight to form the 2C13 0803 to Reading;

(3) the 2C10 0651 arrival from Reading is timetabled as 2x 2 car sets, which shunts into the carriage sidings and divides, forming the 2H12 0708 to Banbury and the 2H14 0727 to Bicester;

(4) the parcels dock is used by the 4M17 2053 departure for Birmingham New Street;

(5) the 2H81 2351 arrival from Bicester returns to Reading DMU depot ECS as the 2355 5H81, without combining with any other DMUs;

(6) on Saturdays, the 2C24 1024 arrival from Reading shunts to the carriage sidings at 1027 and stables there until Sunday, where it forms the 2C13 0740 departure for Didcot Parkway; and

(7) on Sundays, all the cross-country trains divert via the Cotswold lines (presumably due to engineering work) and regular 'bus services run to Birmingham International instead.