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8 hours ago, TangoOscarMike said:

There is also a discontinuity along the edge of the roof, presumably arising from asymmetry in the original models. Next time I will check the alignment all ways round before I start cutting.

 

two_roof_pieces.png.0115dc2b95065c150a9e21d47e84a0dc.png

 

 

Hi Tom,

 

Asymmetry of mouldings can lead to all sorts of problems especially if there are other details such as ribs or planking. Quite often even lining the parts up by eye before cutting doesn't shew the problem until you try the pieces up for a dry run to discover that nothing truly lines up and lots of very careful filling is required. This is especially annoying when all that is required is to rotate the part 180* to have all the profiles and details line up well.

 

As with the repair to the ends of the body shells a strip of plasticard glued to the edge and left to cure may then be filled back to straighten everything up even if there almost nothing left of it when you have finished.

 

It would seem that at least the arcs of the roof are compatible or you would be in bother trying to file off a strange transverse lump half way along the roof.

 

Don't forget filler was invented for a reason !

 

The coach body does appear to have good proportions so far with the increased length offsetting its height compared to the three compartment original.

 

Gibbo.

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On 31/05/2019 at 09:44, Gibbo675 said:

The coach body does appear to have good proportions so far with the increased length offsetting its height compared to the three compartment original.

 

Yes, I'm pretty pleased with it. I think that on a small layout with tight curves a few of them might provide a plausible illusion of a proper main line train.

 

I've removed the glazing from the end compartments, in preparation for gluing them together. I've done this because I want to have the glazing holding the roof on (as per the source 4-wheelers), but I reckon it might be hard to remove the roof if the glazing-attachment runs the whole length.

 

More importantly, my Brassmasters Cleminson underframe kits arrived today. Gadzooks! Have they accidentally sent me the Z-gauge variant? Or have I bitten off more than I can chew? We'll see.

 

The etchings are so pretty. Maybe instead of building them I should frame them and put them on the wall, safely away from my great greasy fingers.

 

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So.

 

Here are the two roof halves. I've removed some glazing and cleaned away the ejector pin marks and suchlike underneath. I've also roughened the underneath a little with 600 grit sandpaper.

trimmed_roof_pieces.png.1682139a592397dbf34b067ccb567222.png

 

And here is the body, screwed to a stick.

coach_on_a_stick.png.e9ee84e55c79d4a304f58480a4befd35.png

 

 

And here is a piece of 20 thou plasticard, formed into a curve with hot air and a tin can. The radius is slightly greater than the underside of the roof. Also shown, an 8mm socket tucked inside a 17mm socket.

 

joining_piece_and_weight.png.392908b592d72cd6c121b566b0897e35.png

The idea is to

  1. Line the two roof halves up, upside down.
  2. Glue the piece of plasticard across the gap.
  3. Weigh it down with the metal lumps.
  4. Lower the coach body onto it until it all clicks into place and everything is held in alignment while the glue sets.

The piece of wood might not be necessary, but it might be useful for holding everything in position upside down.

 

The cost of getting (with any luck) a good glue joint is that the plasticard is rather thin. I hope to be able to take it apart (gently!) and add some reinforcement, to produce a roof that comes on-and-off as easily as the original roofs did with the original coaches.

 

I'll let you know!

 

Edited by TangoOscarMike
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Meanwhile.....

 

I prefer to take pictures outside, with my wife's camera. But the rain has driven me indoors and I'm using my phone, with the stairs for a booth.

 

My 3D printed duckets have arrived. Here is an offcut coach end, with part of the beading removed.

coach_end_beading_removed.png.9e3b690a1b9782a960d5c45827717528.png

 

And this is what it looks like with the ducket in place.

 

coach_end_from_forrard.png.fd08c29e949b268ba0f5e4790aba7f7b.pngcoach_end_broadside_on.png.961c20d109f308cfa64a820d0495d5c6.png

coach_end_dead_astern.png.2dddd878d610c653d14be57bf7c9da8f.pngcoach_end_port_quarter.png.811157828f9ffc1b0655a46e6cb9ad9f.png

 

It's a little bit too close to the door. If I decide to use them for this coach project (I'm still prevaricating) then I will fix that with a little bit of filing. But in any case I'll make a new 3D model for future use, and perhaps for sale.

 

I'm considering having it stick out a little less. I think there might also be room to make it slightly taller, producing a more elegant curve top and bottom.

 

I would be most grateful for any suggestions.

 

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11 minutes ago, TangoOscarMike said:

Meanwhile.....

 

I prefer to take pictures outside, with my wife's camera. But the rain has driven me indoors and I'm using my phone, with the stairs for a booth.

 

My 3D printed duckets have arrived. Here is an offcut coach end, with part of the beading removed.

coach_end_beading_removed.png.305e2bf133f260f4097708621ad253cc.png

 

And this is what it looks like with the ducket in place.

 

coach_end_from_forrard.png.6f68ce159bb759875f5d9dcf6c034c51.pngcoach_end_broadside_on.png.9f323e1df3da643189408eafe7a46b6a.png

coach_end_dead_astern.png.93603c78de55e432b9b715727d1f04f6.pngcoach_end_port_quarter.png.d2f59f19ea8e26fe59bd509b9e4652a3.png

 

It's a little bit too close to the door. If I decide to use them for this coach project (I'm still prevaricating) then I will fix that with a little bit of filing. But in any case I'll make a new 3D model for future use, and perhaps for sale.

 

I'm considering having it stick out a little less. I think there might also be room to make it slightly taller, producing a more elegant curve top and bottom.

 

I would be most grateful for any suggestions.

 

Hi Tom,

 

I think you correct in that the duckets stick out a little far, from the photographs I would say they need to be reduced to about two thirds of their current dimension. The shape of the top is good but as you also note the lower curve may look better should it be lengthened and a flatter curve developed. The total height top to bottom is just right though and fits well with the coaches panelling and bead lines. The beading on the ducket looks most effective and prevents them from looking too plain

 

Gibbo.

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Thanks Gibbo

 

It can't be symmetrical left-to-right, because of how it plugs into the window. But the current design is symmetrical top-to-bottom, which means that there is only one design, and it works on both sides. This saves me from any risk of putting them the wrong way round (sometimes my attention slips!).

 

But this feature is not worth preserving if it means the the shape is sub-optimal......

 

Making it thinner will make the curve more gentle anyway. If I make it just 1mm taller (1/2mm top and bottom) then maybe that will contribute to a nice elegant shape. I shall meditate and doodle.

 

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Hi Tom

I’m enjoying this topic - your attention to detail and precision is commendable. You’ve also got me thinking about the “Annies” that are in a box in the loft somewhere.......

 

With regard to the duckets I agree, I think that they project too far. The shape of the curves looks good. From what I can tell there was a large variety of shapes in reality - the companies almost had a “ house style” - so plenty of options for changes if you’d prefer. My personal preference is for a curve that starts at the bottom of the main body panelling. 

 

Enjoy the doodling!

 

Jon

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I'm pottering away, slowly making progress...

 

The roof joint came out well, and was surprisingly stiff.

 

successful_roof_joint.png.7b4a5d4a1368e78a66fccd4bdb1b4d4b.png

 

But I added another piece of plasticard nevertheless. The sides of the two pieces have better alignment than they did when dry-fitted.

 

roof_alignment_not_bad.png.0c0e38d72f1c046c02b55d03e08c997b.png

 

I put the roof back on the body to preserve the alignment while gluing three layers of strips into the unnecessary gap I'd made. I might be  overdoing it with this approach to keeping things aligned, but I reckon that's better than under-doing it. The foil is to keep the roof from getting stuck to the body, of course. But it didn't prevent a dribble of glue from getting perilously close to fogging a window.

 

strips_to_fill_the_roof_gap.png.7321f918b7847c94df9089011096d4e9.png

 

I was planning to use filler on the gap, but instead, once it had been built up, I simply glued a piece of 10 thou plasticard all the way across. I hope that I'll get a nice smooth surface when I sand it back. And despite the good alignment of the edges, I'm following Gibbo's suggestion with strips of plasticard where the sides are too far in.

strips_roof_edges_and_top.png.648902bba2bdc0c38da8005c1e271723.png

 

 

 

Edited by TangoOscarMike
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I'd be grateful for suggestions for the couplings.

 

I want to use tension-lock couplings for compatibility with everything else I own. I have some Hornby NEM tension-lock couplings, so:

 

Plan A was to use a piece of rectangular section brass tube as a coupling pocket. I would attach it to the (brass) chassis with a pylon of brass tube. This plan hasn't got off the ground because they don't have rectangular tube of suitable dimensions at the local model shop. And I haven't found any online yet. I think that 4mm by 3mm would be about right (depending on the wall thickness) - the shop has all sorts of dimensions, but not 4 by 3.

 

Plan B would be to use one of the pressed metal couplings from older rolling stock. One of these could be attached to a vertical piece of studding, which in turn could be soldered to the chassis. I've had a look online and I haven't been able to find these couplings as a spare part (and I don't want to butcher any of my old rolling stock). I could possibly take a drill to one of the plastic couplings I already have.....

 

 

I want to get this sorted out before I start assembling the Cleminson underframe, because the first step with the underframe construction is to choose the wheelbase. I would be awfully vexed if I chose a long wheelbase and didn't leave room for the couplings.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

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Parkside do NEM coupling mounting blocks that might be of use to you, TOM; these are designed for NEM couplers, including the box, to slide onto the dovetail part.  You glue them to the floor of your vehicle.

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Thanks The Johnster

 

So, those Parkside mountings are for Bachmann couplings, and I realise now that the Bachmann spare couplings product range is a bit of a rabbit hole. There are many different products.

 

Maybe the best thing for me would be the basic Bachmann coupling (https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product/branchline-large-loop-screw-on-coupling-x1036-009/) screwed directly to (a brass bracket soldered to) my chassis. I'll probably order a packet of these.

 

I see also that I was wrong - the basic Hornby coupling (in plastic) does exist as a spare part (https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/accessories/spares-accessories/wheels-couplings/large_couplings_pack_-_plastic.html), but it seems not to be actually available (I can't find it with a quick scan of online retailers).

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

Have you tried Peters Spares?

 

They stock a big range of spares....never had need to use them so no personal experience of availability etc

Thanks Jon

 

I'd glanced at them before, but now I've had a proper look. They don't have plain Hornby old-fashioned wide non-NEM tension lock couplings, but they do have the Bachmann part, which looks very similar. And there are innumerable NEM couplings (but I already have those). AND there are a few NEM pockets, which might be suitable for my needs. Although it seems a bit silly to buy attachments to attach the attachment.

 

It's difficult to search for "couplings", because (a) there are so many different styles of couplings, (b) there are lots of results for things that _have_ couplings and (c) there are also results for things with coupling rods!

 

I'll probably go for the Bachmann part, from Peter's Spares or perhaps another reputable online vendor.

 

Cheers

Tom

 

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I buy multipacks of NEM coupling pockets with tension lock attachments, now I’ve standardised on the pockets and kadees but they can easily be switched out for the tension lock NEM ones. Also the boxes/pockets are easy to mount.

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8 hours ago, Corbs said:

I buy multipacks of NEM coupling pockets with tension lock attachments, now I’ve standardised on the pockets and kadees but they can easily be switched out for the tension lock NEM ones. Also the boxes/pockets are easy to mount.

Thanks Corbs

 

What specific product(s) do you use? Is it this?
 

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product/branchline-long-straight-nem-coupling-with-pocket-x1036-030/

 

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Right, I've ordered some of those couplings and some of the old-fashioned wide Bachmann couplings with holes for screws. And I already have big Hornby NEM couplings. When the new things arrive I'll tackle this again. Meanwhile there is still work to be done on the body and the roof.

 

And for the ducket project I've produced a picture showing the original version and a possible new version side by side.

 

old_and_new_duckets.png.50bfdb345d487c734686da8d481f7d2c.png

As always, comments would be most welcome.

Edited by TangoOscarMike
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Just a tiny bit of progress to report. I was planning a significant remodelling along the join, but I decided not to overdo things. So I've simply filled the gap above and below the door, and replaced the destroyed hinges with scraps of plastic (only necessary on one side). I reckon that'll have to do.

hinges_put_back.png.7babef3e6d3b966a3df998774303b25d.png

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Another tiny bit of progress. I've added M3 studs for attaching the body to the chassis (I'm a big fan of making things so that they can be taken apart).

 

studs_from_above.png.7e8bf9cfd8d2204327d224d7a6b6d8ec.png

studs_from_below.png.98d7b3b3c9125a6a5a89abe9d13b68b2.png

 

I've also received a new 3D printed ducket, with which I am pleased.

 

This particular coach is not going to be a brake coach - instead I'll start with a straightforward modification of a 4-wheel coach. When I get started on that I'll start a new thread (possibly under Smaller Suppliers, since I might offer the duckets for sale).

 

new_ducket_end_view.png.0cc7251f7445f4c5452d427e2d811bef.png

new_ducket_side_view.png.c3531622fda90f6bf68ca9748763630f.png

 

In the second picture it appears as though there's a flange all round it. There isn't - it's an illusion created by looking through the ducket to the internal shape.

 

Edited by TangoOscarMike
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On 10/06/2019 at 22:04, TangoOscarMike said:

Plan B would be to use one of the pressed metal couplings from older rolling stock. One of these could be attached to a vertical piece of studding, which in turn could be soldered to the chassis. I've had a look online and I haven't been able to find these couplings as a spare part (and I don't want to butcher any of my old rolling stock). I could possibly take a drill to one of the plastic couplings I already have.....

 

Tom

 

if you still want metal tension lock couplings, PM me with your address and then I will send you an envelope full of them that I've taken off stock and have no need of (actually can't think why I am keeping them!)

 

Steve

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8 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

 

Tom

 

if you still want metal tension lock couplings, PM me with your address and then I will send you an envelope full of them that I've taken off stock and have no need of (actually can't think why I am keeping them!)

 

Steve

Steve, you’re keeping them because serious modellers never throw anything away on the grounds that it will find a use one day!

Tim T

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On 08/07/2019 at 18:53, timbowilts said:

Steve, you’re keeping them because serious modellers never throw anything away on the grounds that it will find a use one day!

Tim T

 

And this attitude is absolutely correct - I am about to benefit from Steve's careful hoarding!

 

There is another aspect, as well. It seems terribly wasteful to throw away these little pieces of metal and plastic - wasteful not only of the natural resources but also of the time and effort spent on designing and making them. All those craftsmen in the 60s carefully carving wooden masters (I suppose)..... The miners who dug up the ore.... etc.

 

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  • 1 month later...

So...... I've had a long absence, arising from a holiday and a crazy work situation.

 

I've made no progress on the 6-wheeler, but I have made some progress with the ducket. I should probably move this to "Smaller Suppliers", since I might offer it for sale. But not yet.

 

Here it is on an Annie. The brown is Vallejo German Camoflage Black Brown, which may not be a perfect match for the GWR brown, but it's a pretty good match for the brown plastic of the "GWR" liveried version of this coach. The cream is an "ivory" hobby acrylic.

 

The window of the new guard's compartment has been filled with a simple rectangle of plasticard, and I've removed the word "THIRD" from under the door.

new_ducket_test_paint_00.png.45e04da029568d8fa00c7fe751145424.png

 

I have (what I believe to be) a cunning plan for getting gold paint onto the raised beading, to match my old, old "GWR" 4-wheelers. I've painted this beading by hand before, with much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

I'm going to:

  1. Give it a thin coat of varnish.
  2. Mask off the large flat areas (the panels and the whole bottom 3rd).
  3. Repeatedly dry brush the whole thing with gold acrylic.
  4. Remove the masking tape.
  5. Touch up the areas that now have a little bit of unwanted gold.
  6. Let you know how I get on.

 

Edited by TangoOscarMike
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And this is the result before and after the removal of the masking tape. I've been a little too heavy-handed with the dry-brushing, I think, but I'm pretty sure that it'll be OK after the brown and the cream are touched up.

 

I'm thinking now of adding these duckets to my 6-wheel coach, and maybe cutting and moving some panels to make a guard/luggage compartment. We'll see.

 

new_ducket_test_paint_01.png.055a19fa80d4783dd389ac91ef2c319f.png

 

new_ducket_test_paint_02.png.a292c8e4ec9118dc3f694118495331ff.png

Edited by TangoOscarMike
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