Manchester/Salford docks

[PenrithBeacon]

I'm getting the impression from Google Earth that non of railways in the Manchester/Salford docks have been preserved; is this true?

Regards

[Fat Controller]

I think you're correct; the only operational  section is now the cement terminal at Weaste, I believe; not in the main area of docks, but on the Ship Canal

. There has been talk of moving the various container terminals around Trafford Park to somewhere on the northern side of the Ship Canal, but I don't know what has happened there.

Is there much, indeed any, maritime traffic to the Manchester area these days?

[Steamport Southport]

Wasn't some millionaire suggesting opening some of it up as a heritage railway in the Irlam area?

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/full-steam-ahead-businessman-turns-10114972

 

Sorry for the link to the awful, user unfriendly website. But it was the best I could find.

 

 

 

Jason

[John-Miles]

If you own a house in London you are close to being a millionaire. It's not unusual these days. If you want someone to splash the cash, it has a least to be a multi-millionaire.

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Fat Controller said:

I think you're correct; the only operational  section is now the cement terminal at Weaste, I believe; not in the main area of docks, but on the Ship Canal

. There has been talk of moving the various container terminals around Trafford Park to somewhere on the northern side of the Ship Canal, but I don't know what has happened there.

Is there much, indeed any, maritime traffic to the Manchester area these days?

Port Salford is still very much alive and in development, there is already a small container terminal on the banks in Irlam to be superseded by the proper terminal in the coming years, at the moment it is all road served.

 

Warehousing is going up and eventually it will be rail connected to a triangle with the Chat Moss route allowing access to all compass points in the UK.

 

Trams will soon be at the Trafford Centre and an extension over the river to Salford for the Sports Stadium and Port Salford is planned long term (not yet funded)

 

http://www.portsalford.co.uk/#intro

 

[Steamport Southport]

20 minutes ago, John-Miles said:

If you own a house in London you are close to being a millionaire. It's not unusual these days. If you want someone to splash the cash, it has a least to be a multi-millionaire.

 

I think he's got a bit more than a million....

 

He owns Talk Talk and is a property tycoon in Manchester. All those warehouses that they renovated? He owns half of them.

 

 

Jason

[montyburns56]

6 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

 

Is there much, indeed any, maritime traffic to the Manchester area these days?

 

There's cement to the Weaste terminal which is why railway traffic to it has virtually disappeared, grain ships to Cargill (used to be Cerestar which was rail served until fairly recently) scrap metal from the EMR site, container ships to Irlam & LPG ships to Carrington power station. This site list all the traffic that goes to Manchester.

 

http://www.shipsofthemersey.me.uk/index?/page/manchester_ship_canal_2017_2018

Edited May 8, 2019 by montyburns56

[montyburns56]

6 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I'm getting the impression from Google Earth that non of railways in the Manchester/Salford docks have been preserved; is this true?

Regards

 

There's a tiny bit of embedded track around the Mode Wheel Lock area which still exists, but that's just about it.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mode+Wheel+Locks/@53.4715347,-2.3055446,141m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x487bae67d2c97a9f:0x6c0973c596fcba05!8m2!3d53.4737243!4d-2.304343

[woodenhead]

There's still a bit of track near Carroll/Cerestar but it's not connected to anything.

 

Most of the other track fell into disuse before being ripped up as part of various road schemes around the park.

[62613]

There is a scrap of track across one end of Tenax Road going towards Ashburton Road West.

[woodenhead]

29 minutes ago, 62613 said:

There is a scrap of track across one end of Tenax Road going towards Ashburton Road West.

Question is - does that scrap of track exist (as does the track across Barton Dock Rd and Park Rd) to secure the right of way for the railway or simply because no-one has the funds to remove it and tarmac the surface.

 

Containerbase is gone with car dealerships going up on the site, the track to Cargill has been sliced by the Metrolink not to mention the weak bridges over the canals and the type of industry in Trafford Park now is not the sort that would attract trainload volumes so no real chance of a revitalised rail system within the Park.

 

The only thing I think could add value would have been using the trackbed to where Containerbase was for heavy rail and have emu services extend from Oxford Rd station to the Trafford Centre - not sure if the turnback at Trafford Park is even used now and with Metrolink coming the council wouldn't fund any new electrified heavy rail.

[62613]

3 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Question is - does that scrap of track exist (as does the track across Barton Dock Rd and Park Rd) to secure the right of way for the railway or simply because no-one has the funds to remove it and tarmac the surface.

 

Containerbase is gone with car dealerships going up on the site, the track to Cargill has been sliced by the Metrolink not to mention the weak bridges over the canals and the type of industry in Trafford Park now is not the sort that would attract trainload volumes so no real chance of a revitalised rail system within the Park.

 

The only thing I think could add value would have been using the trackbed to where Containerbase was for heavy rail and have emu services extend from Oxford Rd station to the Trafford Centre - not sure if the turnback at Trafford Park is even used now and with Metrolink coming the council wouldn't fund any new electrified heavy rail.

On the first paragraph, I think the second case. Since Metrolink in Oldham was diverted from the rail route to run along Union Street, the tracks across the road junction at Mumps Bridge have not been removed. I suppose another reason might be that closing the roads in question to take the tracks up could cause traffic problems.

On another note, I can remember the track across Tenax Road being refurbished and all the new signage being put up, IIRC in the late 80s/early 90s, when I was working at Ciba-Geigy, also the footbridge across the road when it was widened - I drew the outline plan for it.

[woodenhead]

8 minutes ago, 62613 said:

On the first paragraph, I think the second case. Since Metrolink in Oldham was diverted from the rail route to run along Union Street, the tracks across the road junction at Mumps Bridge have not been removed. I suppose another reason might be that closing the roads in question to take the tracks up could cause traffic problems.

On another note, I can remember the track across Tenax Road being refurbished and all the new signage being put up, IIRC in the late 80s/early 90s, when I was working at Ciba-Geigy, also the footbridge across the road when it was widened - I drew the outline plan for it.

I remember when they put in the roundabout at what was Heartlands (never went there myself) - the track was relaid from the back of the Freightliner yard to Trafford Park Rd and I can remember the 08s shunting along that route sometime as I commuted to work, but it can't have lasted long before Speedlink went and that was it wasn't it?

[adb968008]

On 10/05/2019 at 13:27, woodenhead said:

I remember when they put in the roundabout at what was Heartlands (never went there myself) - the track was relaid from the back of the Freightliner yard to Trafford Park Rd and I can remember the 08s shunting along that route sometime as I commuted to work, but it can't have lasted long before Speedlink went and that was it wasn't it?

Would that be two privately owned 08’s, painted BR green, with TOPs numbers, but without a BR logo, plus the wasp stripes ?

Another occasion I went to see a monster of a diesel shunter, with steam loco chimney, no 4001, amongst others.

 

I recall being taken to see them once. My dad was full of menories of the Salford Docks system. The police brought him home at 2am one morning when he got out of the house to go watch trains there.. at 4/6 years old. He lived about 1/2 mile from there !

Edited May 11, 2019 by adb968008

[woodenhead]

12 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Would that be two privately owned 08’s, painted BR green, with TOPs numbers, but without a BR logo, plus the wasp stripes ?

Another occasion I went to see a monster of a diesel shunter, with steam loco chimney, no 4001, amongst others.

 

I recall being taken to see them once. My dad was full of menories of the Salford Docks system. The police brought him home at 2am one morning when he got out of the house to go watch trains there.. at 4/6 years old. He lived about 1/2 mile from there !

There's were various shunters through the 90s, it might have been one or two 08s at Cerestar and MSC industrials at the site next to Kellogg's.

 

its all a blur to me now

[62613]

9 hours ago, woodenhead said:

There's were various shunters through the 90s, it might have been one or two 08s at Cerestar and MSC industrials at the site next to Kellogg's.

 

its all a blur to me now

I can remember trains going down Mellors Road to Steve Norton's scrapyard. Usually about 4.30 - 5 p.m a couple of days a week.

 

[keefer]

Older thread about Trafford Park:

 

 

[Reorte]

There was the link to the freight centre next to the Trafford Centre until just a few years ago, it 08s along there. I think a weak bridge closed it? The track seems to have been taken up (other than where it would involve digging the road up) now. The track seemed to survive to Kelloggs for a little longer than the rest but it seems to have been lifted rather than merely overgrown on the latest Streetview pictures.

[woodenhead]

5 minutes ago, Reorte said:

There was the link to the freight centre next to the Trafford Centre until just a few years ago, it 08s along there. I think a weak bridge closed it? The track seems to have been taken up (other than where it would involve digging the road up) now. The track seemed to survive to Kelloggs for a little longer than the rest but it seems to have been lifted rather than merely overgrown on the latest Streetview pictures.

All gone - Containerbase is now demolised, a car dealership is nearing completion there amongst other stuff - with the hotels and new pub it would all look very out of place now if it was still operating - think Peel wanted them gone a long time ago and a piece of dodgy infrastructure is an old trick.

[John-Miles]

When I were a lad (this would be the middle 1950s), my school organised a trip to Salford where we boarded a Mersey Ferry and sailed the entire length of the canal. The trip ended at Liverpool Pierhead when there was moored the biggest ship I had ever seen, The Empress of Canada (I was brought up in Derbyshire so ships were a rarity). Salford docks had the distinctive Manchester LIners ships (black hull with the company name painted on the side in huge letters). The railway then ran the length of the canal with lots of 0-6-0Ts to be seen. A wonderful day out - the best we ever had from School.

[montyburns56]

3 hours ago, John-Miles said:

When I were a lad (this would be the middle 1950s), my school organised a trip to Salford where we boarded a Mersey Ferry and sailed the entire length of the canal. The trip ended at Liverpool Pierhead when there was moored the biggest ship I had ever seen, The Empress of Canada (I was brought up in Derbyshire so ships were a rarity). Salford docks had the distinctive Manchester LIners ships (black hull with the company name painted on the side in huge letters). The railway then ran the length of the canal with lots of 0-6-0Ts to be seen. A wonderful day out - the best we ever had from School.

 

There's a company that still runs tourist cruises from Liverpool to Manchester if you want take a trip down memory lane.

 

https://www.merseyferries.co.uk/mobile/manchester-ship-canal-cruise/Pages/default.aspx

[montyburns56]

3 hours ago, woodenhead said:

All gone - Containerbase is now demolised, a car dealership is nearing completion there amongst other stuff - with the hotels and new pub it would all look very out of place now if it was still operating - think Peel wanted them gone a long time ago and a piece of dodgy infrastructure is an old trick.

 

I didn't realise that Containerbase itself was now gone as the Google Street View still shows views from 2017. It got me thinking that perhaps a preservation society could take over the track down Barton Dock Road  and run brake van rides up and down it as they would have a ready market with all of the visitors to The Trafford Centre. They could even reuse the old engine shed near Kelloggs.

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

 

There's a company that still runs tourist cruises from Liverpool to Manchester if you want take a trip down memory lane.

 

https://www.merseyferries.co.uk/mobile/manchester-ship-canal-cruise/Pages/default.aspx

Do they give you a graphical bingo card, so you can mark off what debris you spot ?

car tyre, sofa, rusted car, shopping trolleys, industrial pipe, sunken boats, some foul smelling yellow liquid, dead fish...

 

ive got to admit my memories of the canal in the 1980’s/90’s put the grim into north for me. I remember Manchester bid for the Olympics in 2000, Sydney made a video comparing Sydney to Manchester including shots of Sydney Harbour bridge or Manchester Ship Canal bridge, the weather, the beer etc.

 

:-)

 

 

[Reorte]

15 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

 

I didn't realise that Containerbase itself was now gone as the Google Street View still shows views from 2017. It got me thinking that perhaps a preservation society could take over the track down Barton Dock Road  and run brake van rides up and down it as they would have a ready market with all of the visitors to The Trafford Centre. They could even reuse the old engine shed near Kelloggs.

The track's lifted now, and trundling across some of those open road crossings for some sort of preserved railway would definitely raise a few eyebrows (can't recall if the one by Kelloggs was an open crossing but the one that went straight through a roundabout was, wasn't it?)

Edited May 14, 2019 by Reorte

[woodenhead]

Kelloggs was an open crossing right across a major road junction and there was usually a slow arrival or departure during the rush hour!

 

The roundabout crossing served the scrap and cargill traffic, the curve of the track there is now reversed as it is now a Metrolink crossing point