RMweb Premium D.Platt Posted May 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 16, 2019 Good Morning All, Would I be correct in thinking that to make a catch point I can print off say an A 4.5 point on TEMPLOT and it’s just a case building a point up to wear the wing rails start ? And do you still use the same amount of sliding chairs ? Dennis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 That's about it, If you want to tidy it up you can reduce the length. Also you can have things like single blade catch or are they trap 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted May 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 16, 2019 Under the 'do' tab there is the 'snap to catch points' option. You can also omit some rails to produce a single blade unit, but it's probably just as easy to just lay what you want on the template. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 16, 2019 See also the Templot help page and slideshow video about catch points: http://templot.com/companion/catch_points.php Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Morgan Posted May 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 16, 2019 3 hours ago, hayfield said: Also you can have things like single blade catch or are they trap The difference between 'Catch' and 'Trap' points is where they are placed, and what they are used for, rather than how they operate, or the number of blades. Trap Points are used to prevent conflicting movements onto a main line, such as inadvertent exit of vehicles from a goods yard onto the main line. Catch Points are used to prevent vehicles from running out of control down long gradients. These are often spring loaded so a train running up hill can pass them, but runaway wagons from the rear end of the train will be caught and derailed. 2 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, Ian Morgan said: The difference between 'Catch' and 'Trap' points is where they are placed, and what they are used for Hi Ian, Dennis was asking about the physical derailing track object, which is a set of catch points, whatever it is used for. "Trap" describes the signalling function, which is sometimes implemented as a set of catch points, and sometimes as a full turnout or other function within the interlocking. See: http://templot.com/companion/catch_points.php cheers, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium D.Platt Posted May 16, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 16, 2019 Thanks everyone for your replies, as am protecting a goods line exit onto a main line I now realise it’s a trap point that is required ? But same building method ? Dennis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, D.Platt said: Thanks everyone for your replies, as am protecting a goods line exit onto a main line I now realise it’s a trap point that is required ? But same building method ? Hi Dennis, Yes, it's the same thing. The word "trap" describes what you are using it for. The actual object is exactly the same thing. It's called a set of catch points if it has two blades, and a catch point if it has only one. cheers, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium D.Platt Posted May 16, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 16, 2019 Hi Martin, Thank you for the link on TEMPLOT I’ve watched the video and I now know what to look for, the only question left is the number of slide chairs is it still six each side ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 16, 2019 29 minutes ago, D.Platt said: Hi Martin, Thank you for the link on TEMPLOT I’ve watched the video and I now know what to look for, the only question left is the number of slide chairs is it still six each side ? Hi Dennis, That depends on the size of the catch points. An REA size "A" switch, as in in an A-5 turnout, has 5 slide chairs on each side. An REA "B" size switch, as in a B-6 turnout, has 6 slide chairs on each side. Some companies, such as the GWR, designed separate catch points rather than using their standard size switches. There is a whole chapter on them in David Smith's GWR track book. Many companies used older pattern short loose-heel switches as catch points, in which case there may be only 4 slide chairs on each side for the shortest ones. Here's a pic of a GWR loose-heel switch blade, as a single catch point. As you can see, there are 5 slide chairs: cheers, Martin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium D.Platt Posted May 16, 2019 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 16, 2019 Thanks again Martin for your prompt reply and information you have given is invaluable, Dennis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 16 hours ago, martin_wynne said: Hi Dennis, That depends on the size of the catch points. An REA size "A" switch, as in in an A-5 turnout, has 5 slide chairs on each side. An REA "B" size switch, as in a B-6 turnout, has 6 slide chairs on each side. Some companies, such as the GWR, designed separate catch points rather than using their standard size switches. There is a whole chapter on them in David Smith's GWR track book. Many companies used older pattern short loose-heel switches as catch points, in which case there may be only 4 slide chairs on each side for the shortest ones. Here's a pic of a GWR loose-heel switch blade, as a single catch point. As you can see, there are 5 slide chairs: cheers, Martin. Pedant alert! As that particular point is worked from a signal box or ground frame and signaled, it is a trap point. Trap points are to stop errant movements running out of sidings onto a running line, catch point are on rising gradients to deflect runaway vehicles on the main line and are not signaled. Probably not many catch points about in these fully fitted days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Poor Old Bruce said: Pedant alert! As that particular point is worked from a signal box or ground frame and signaled, it is a trap point. Trap points are to stop errant movements running out of sidings onto a running line, catch point are on rising gradients to deflect runaway vehicles on the main line and are not signaled. Probably not many catch points about in these fully fitted days. It is physically a CATCH POINT. It is being used as a TRAP for errant movements. The physical object is called a CATCH POINT. Refer to the GWR drawings for the damn thing. The signalling term "trap" describes the purpose for which it is being used. Martin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted May 17, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 17, 2019 2 hours ago, martin_wynne said: It is physically a CATCH POINT. It is being used as a TRAP for errant movements. The physical object is called a CATCH POINT. Refer to the GWR drawings for the damn thing. The signalling term "trap" describes the purpose for which it is being used. Martin. Per Way operatives refer to them as catch points, whatever the use. This is an old chestnut which comes around and around. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said: Per Way operatives refer to them as catch points, whatever the use. Indeed they do. Not least because that is what they are called on the drawings. cheers, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 On 17/05/2019 at 13:34, Siberian Snooper said: Per Way operatives refer to them as catch points, whatever the use. This is an old chestnut which comes around and around. Odd as I spent 36 years as a PW Renewals Engineer and in that time myself and my colleagues always described them as catch or trap points depending on what they were being used for. Surely this is another of those things where the names used for a component vary from place to place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 I made these by printing off the Peco template and then used a photo to try to get the details correct: They are 0 gauge. John 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted September 22, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 22, 2019 On 17/05/2019 at 11:24, martin_wynne said: It is physically a CATCH POINT. It is being used as a TRAP for errant movements. The physical object is called a CATCH POINT. Refer to the GWR drawings for the damn thing. The signalling term "trap" describes the purpose for which it is being used. Martin. Pedant mode on Perhaps the 1950 revision of the Ministry of Transport Requirements should be consulted. In the section referring to exits from sidings or freight lines to passenger lines this is the relevant paragraph Up to the 1925 edition these were referred to as 'Safety Points' Moving on to the section about safety measures on gradients we find Up to the 1925 edition these were referred to as a 'Throw-off Safety Switch' It's only things like old Permanent Way Institute publications which used to refer to everything as Catch Points as they never did understand much about actually operating a railway, only how to bolt together bits of wood and ironmongery. Pedant mode off and back to modelling rolling stock. (Where's the 'Tongue in Cheek' emoji when you need it?) 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted September 22, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 22, 2019 12 minutes ago, TheSignalEngineer said: Perhaps the 1950 revision of the Ministry of Transport Requirements should be consulted. Duly consulted. They don't change the title "Catch Points" on the manufacturing drawings. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 On 23/09/2019 at 00:26, martin_wynne said: Duly consulted. They don't change the title "Catch Points" on the manufacturing drawings. Martin. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) But that is not one of the drawings Martin uses to make his case. Edited October 31, 2019 by Grovenor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted October 31, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2019 19 minutes ago, Grovenor said: But that is not one of the drawings Martin uses to make his case. No, and Bv size means it is flat-bottom. In a previous round-the-houses on this subject, after close study of BRT edition 3 and BRT edition 4, we did conclude (or at least some of us did), that the physical track object is called "trap points" if it's flat-bottom, and "catch points" if it's bullhead (even if it is being used as a trap). But I'm exhausted with this discussion after so many years. All I can say for certain is that the physical track object is called "catch points" in Templot, and will remain so. cheers, Martin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now