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Izzy

Hornby TTS stay-alive solder connection points.

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Thought that perhaps a post indicating the stay-alive connection options with the Hornby TTS decoders might be useful.

 

There are two ways of adding the wires, one of which I feel is rather easier than the other due to the small sizes involved.

 

I have used a fine Antex Tip to help illustrate where to solder and how small the parts are. This is a new/un-used one ( which is why it looks so clean!), and has a 1mm point.

 

The first is how they can be added to a plain Hornby R8249 decoder on which the TTS version is based, the sound part being basically added onto it. This involves adding the wires to the diode rectifying part.

 

The Positive connection

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And the Negative one.

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As I hope you can see it's really tight to get a soldering iron tip in there. Okay if like me you use a small iron with a fine tip, a 15watt Antex with those 1mm tips, but if you have a larger iron, 25-40watt with a bigger tip... well.

 

So, this is the other way with the TTS decoders. The connections are on the opposite side.

 

The negative connection is to where the sound part is added, and is on the edge. So much easier to get to

 

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169149657_RMwebTTSSA06.jpg.383fc20bb81f01f30970937e59baea32.jpg

 

And the Positive just uses the Blue wire tab. Again on an edge.  I am afraid I used a spare TTS decoder I had for these shots, and the wires not needed had been removed. Both these connections are easy to remember though in that they are both the fourth one along/down.

 

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IZZY

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1 hour ago, Izzy said:

Thought that perhaps a post indicating the stay-alive connection options with the Hornby TTS decoders might be useful.

Certainly very useful indeed - great clear descriptions and photos.  I think I'll try a stay alive in my early Bachmann 08 which I have just fitted successfully with TTS.

 

Thanks very much for posting.

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Izzy, quick question please.

 

What size capicitor do you use for TTS decoders?

 

Thanks,

 

Vivian

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1 hour ago, Richard Croft said:

very helpful, do you have to change any CV's or anything?

 

Richard

 

Glad it’s of use. I just turn off DC as is usually recommended. I do this with all my decoders as a matter of course, sound/non-sound, a habit I have got into doing to help prevent the problems that can sometimes occur, and many - the CT decoders I use in 2mm/2FS are a prime example - won’t work with a stay-alive with it enabled anyway.

 

Izzy

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4 minutes ago, cravensdmufan said:

Izzy, quick question please.

 

What size capicitor do you use for TTS decoders?

 

Thanks,

 

Vivian

 

In the recently done 08 I have used a plain 2200uf/16v electrolytic stuffed in the cab, which I guess you might have seen on the 08 TTS thread. A 25v one was too big/tall to fit.     With my 2mm stuff I use 220uf/16v tantalums stacked together as needed I.e. 440/660/880, but the smaller motors don’t need so much power, and anyway I only want enough to get reliable running rather than totally off power movement for multiple seconds. The 08 needed 2200uf to get comparable movement because of the larger power drain of the 1833 Mashima fitted. So I would say that what is fitted/can be used is really anything from say 470uf upwards. Obviously the more the better in general terms, what will/can be fitted in the space available. I do keep meaning to make up a tantalum pack to see what the results are, how many are needed to be worthwhile seeing as they are more powerful and might need far less space. 

 

Izzy

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Okay.... with a bit of spare time due to things not going to plan and a need to wait for glued joints to harden off I have played around with some tantalums, making up a stay-alive pack using the bits I have for 2mm work.

 

I tried 660uf (3x220uf) but found a 4-pack - 880uf - produced about the same results as the 2200uf electrolytic. As you can see the pack is quite a bit smaller.

 

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72076722_RMwebTTS0812.jpg.156ebf4166fcd97b440a52d61054f4d2.jpg

 

 

Izzy

 

 

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Thanks I tried this today using the pads on the edges and it works brilliantly, its no harder than fitting one to a Loksound or Zimo decoder

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Thanks for posting this :)

Only have one TTS but I'll give it a go when I've cleared the other projects I'm on.

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Thread resurrection.......I have a Hornby 08 with TTS but it a[pears to have a 21 pin Loksound V4 fitted rather than the usual TTS chip......would this Loco be able,to be fitted with a stay alive as well?

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On 28/04/2020 at 21:16, boxbrownie said:

Thread resurrection.......I have a Hornby 08 with TTS but it a[pears to have a 21 pin Loksound V4 fitted rather than the usual TTS chip......would this Loco be able,to be fitted with a stay alive as well?

 first three solder pads at the opposite end to the 21 pins are designed to take an ESU 3 wire stay alive such as the power pack mini but they are expensive and hold limited charge. I have been using the kung fu stay alives from Digitrains instead with good results, blue wire to the first pad and black wire to the third, you will need to increase the value of cv113 to about 200 as its usually set to 0 which means the power pack is turned off.

 

Richard

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Thanks Richard......found the pads indicated in the V4 instructions finally, good to know about CV113 though :good_mini:

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That's very helpful, wish I'd found this post earlier!

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Very useful Izzy, wish I'd found this post earlier.

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Has anyone ever had issues with TTS and stay alives? I did two 08's for a customer a while ago and he blew one up, I replaced it and before I had even had chance to return it he said the second one had blown. replaced the decoder in both models and he blew the decoders in those too! in the end I ended up having to buy the models from him and give him his money back just to stop it happening over and over again, but it did put me off doing anything with TTS other than simple plug and play installations. I did suspect it was him mis using them at the time because nobody else ever said they had problems, but it would be good to hear other peoples experiences.

 

Richard

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Each failure would have to be investigated on its merits Richard, i.e. values/spec of the components used for the stay alive and method of installation (which pads were soldered to - the edge pads or inside the bridge area).

 

Once such data was collated it could be passed to Hornby for a failure mode analysis.

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13 hours ago, RAF96 said:

Each failure would have to be investigated on its merits Richard, i.e. values/spec of the components used for the stay alive and method of installation (which pads were soldered to - the edge pads or inside the bridge area).

 

Once such data was collated it could be passed to Hornby for a failure mode analysis.

They were all an unbranded Zimo sc68 type

capacitor with a diode and resistor used correctly, i used the solder pads at the edges. I did maybe 20 in total and he’s the only only one to suffer a faliure, or 4 as it turned out to be! I’ve fitted Loksound decoders for him too and he’s not broken them. He did admit after I had done the refund that he had changed a lot of CV’s so that’s probably why.

 

Richard

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I am at a loss as to why changing CVs would badly affect the decoder fitted with a stay alive to the point of failure.

The only things I would have thought likely to have had any affect would be BEMF, PI (CVs 150-->) and DC running as these are the only characteristics directly affecting the motor.

What about functions output relative to a stay alive as TTS decoders have an unprotected output of 100mA apiece.

Maybe someone with more knowledge about decoders with stay alive than me could make suggestion.

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