8x4 OO for kids

[Nova Scotian]

Update - I've figured out being able to fit an 8x4 layout into my space, moving furniture around, out, etc. I've kept the original 2x4 request below as there was really great info, but updated scenario starts in a few posts

 

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Before I can get working on my layout, I've committed to working with my kids to create a large diorama / small layout first. Which only seems fair, because kids.

 

My kids are getting into putting models together - they like crafting, and so they requested the opportunity to create buildings, lakes, roads, and "somewhere for Thomas and Percy".

 

So, I've put the baseboard together. It's as good as 2x4 (123cm by 61cm to be precise).

There's no real need for realism - but I'm thinking about a modified version of what we see at the end of the Thomas intro - small branchline with a station. I can build up a road that then goes over the tracks - to replicate the hill Bertie comes down during their race.

To make it more interesting I'm thinking of a slightly larger station, with two tracks (one of which I can continue on to a new baseboard if I get more room), so a platform + station building. Then at the opposite end of the board I'd have room for sidings to do some shunting.

 

So, a 2 foot wide board gives me more space than most inglenook type layouts I've seen. However, 4 foot is quite compact. There'd be nothing to stop me adding a fiddle yard later on a new board. 

 

What should I do with the wider board? Sidings for coaches? Pay and display car park with a couple of hoodlums loitering? Somewhere to load milk vans? Anyone have suggestions for a decent trackplan that gives a hint of operating (within a confined area) - and if it's one I can expand later then we're golden. Would only be running 0-4-0 and 0-6-0, so tight radius good.

 

Probably going to use settrack, but worried about if this limits me. Should I use flexitrack? It'd all be code 100. Thinking about wiring the whole thing live with droppers for reliability and simplicity - disconnected from what I later do with the points (motors etc).

Ultimately this is for the kids - and for them to build plastic buildings, paint, have design input etc. I expect their design input won't cover track design, so, please, I'm hoping someone can help.

Thanks

Edited February 16, 2020 by Nova Scotian
Update

[DCB]

Get adventurous, sell the 0-6-0 and bend that flexi real tight in a 1 ft radius U like Bekra Models did at Newton Abbott. See pic  Yes that class 47 was trundling round when I visited last.   That leaves real scope for a 2 X 4 mini layout.  As for droppers on a 2 X 4.  Forget it.  I power clip should suffice, unless you leave the layout out in the rain when out of use.

[Nova Scotian]

8 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

Get adventurous, sell the 0-6-0 and bend that flexi real tight in a 1 ft radius U like Bekra Models did at Newton Abbott. See pic  Yes that class 47 was trundling round when I visited last.   That leaves real scope for a 2 X 4 mini layout.  As for droppers on a 2 X 4.  Forget it.  I power clip should suffice, unless you leave the layout out in the rain when out of use.

 

 

I like it - but I'm not sure I'd be allowed to still be their father if I sold Thomas!

[The Johnster]

I think you are probably best advised to use setrack, and stock that will negotiate minimum radius.  This might have an impact on Annie and Clarabelle, but will save as much of your space as possible and keep the dead frogs short.  Base the plan on Y points as much as you can.

 

Length is your enemy, so keep Thomas as your largest loco, with Percy/Ben, Toby and Diesel, perhaps assisted by Smokey Joe and his chums, maybe Bachmann Junior stuff.  As the kids grow up and Thomas becomes relegated to the back of the box, they can be replaced with more prototypical industrials and small shunters, like Pugs, Barclays, Pecketts, etc.

 

The Hornby Troublesome Trucks for the Thomas range are based on a generic chassis which is quite long, and you might be better served with shorter wheelbase wagons such as Hornby's period 2/3 private owners and Bachmann or Oxford minerals; you need every millimetre of space you can get lengthways.  

 

It might be possible to have what would effectively two separate layouts on the board, one at the back at a higher level which could cover hidden sidings from the lower level.   A high level passenger station with a run around and sidings for a foreground shunting problem, each around a foot wide which leaves room for some basic scenery behind the passenger station.

 

Operating is up to you, but I would suggest a run around for the high level with maybe some stub sidings off it, and a 'reception/departure' road on the low level so that a short train (I can't see it being more than 3 wagons, with the loco that's 25% of the layout length) can be brought on to the visible section from the hidden sidings, the loco isolated, and a pilot shunts the traffic with the assistance of the train loco.  This needs 3 operators but can be done with one though things take longer; ideal for kids and dad fun.  Keep buildings small and basic, and try not to overcrowd the layout.  High level; Thomas and the girls, maybe Daisy, with occasional tail traffic for the stub sidings (dairy, cattle dock?). Low level; 0-4-0s and short wheelbase opens.  If you can. a loco road for the pilot to sit in with water for it; the train engine can take water whIle the pilot is working.  Leave room for the kids to drive trucks and cars around the layout.  Low level could have a factory, a warehouse, perhaps a canal or harbour wharf.

[Nova Scotian]

This is fantastic, thank you @The Johnster

[The Johnster]

Just suggestions; glad you reckon they're useful, Nova!

[Nova Scotian]

21 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Just suggestions; glad you reckon they're useful, Nova!

They are. I don't have any troublesome trucks - and most of what I have are shorter chassis - so in my initial trackplan I can fit an 0-4-0 and three trucks fully inside with clearance, or 3 trucks and a brake van.

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around the two levels. This would be far more interesting and give much more room to play with the track

[mdvle]

On 18/05/2019 at 19:49, Nova Scotian said:

My kids are getting into putting models together - they like crafting, and so they requested the opportunity to create buildings, lakes, roads, and "somewhere for Thomas and Percy".

 

 

On 18/05/2019 at 19:49, Nova Scotian said:

So, a 2 foot wide board gives me more space than most inglenook type layouts I've seen. However, 4 foot is quite compact. There'd be nothing to stop me adding a fiddle yard later on a new board. 

 

What should I do with the wider board?

 

I think the answer to this was provided above in your posting, your kids from what you say don't want the board covered in track and want space to play around in addition to the trains.

 

It's a guess, but in addition to the ability to create all those things they probably would just like space to play with cars in addition to playing with trains.

[Nova Scotian]

19 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

 

 

I think the answer to this was provided above in your posting, your kids from what you say don't want the board covered in track and want space to play around in addition to the trains.

 

It's a guess, but in addition to the ability to create all those things they probably would just like space to play with cars in addition to playing with trains.

This gives good thought too, thank you. This was why I'd planned the road coming over a hill/bridge, down to the station (Bertie races etc). When looking at my trackplan it's pretty empty front left - this could be a fun "activity" area, or where we build up a small village or something.

 

One of their favourite games is picking up livestock in the trucks - so perhaps by the station I should create a siding with a ramp where livestock can be walked up into the trucks before going to market?

 

Interestingly the thing they want more than anything is the model building. I've already done a couple of aeroplanes with them, peco sheds etc. They're not quite six yet (so lots of supervision and some assistance required - especially with painting!). So one of my overriding concerns is the ability for them to try different crafts - so was thinking a duck pond near the road (practice making water). A quarry near the sidings (shaping expanded polystrene and the painting thereof). Making the station building and some other buildings for the layout. I'm happy to ballast, I'm not sure I can face doing the grass with them though!

Edited May 20, 2019 by Nova Scotian
Forgot to say thank you!

[rodshaw]

If your baseboard is only 2ft wide, then even with flextrack bent to a 12in radius (i.e. outer radius, including sleepers) ) you're going to have track right at the very edges and trains are liable to be easily knocked off. Even if you're thinking of overhanging the track a bit beyond the baseboard edges, seems to me it's still a very, very tight fit.

[Nova Scotian]

3 hours ago, rodshaw said:

If your baseboard is only 2ft wide, then even with flextrack bent to a 12in radius (i.e. outer radius, including sleepers) ) you're going to have track right at the very edges and trains are liable to be easily knocked off. Even if you're thinking of overhanging the track a bit beyond the baseboard edges, seems to me it's still a very, very tight fit.

 

I'm not planning on any "roundy". The board will also sit on the floor when being built - so it's less than 3 inches off the carpet if the kids do accidentally run a train off into the abyss.

[Nova Scotian]

UPDATE

 

Some judicious moving around of the furniture, including sending a bookcase elsewhere, has opened up room for an 8x4 OO gauge layout.

 

I've been reviewing various track guides, and am excited by the possibilities. I made the mistake of looking at 8x6 and realising what I could do with a double track roundy with more room, but that would mean two more baseboards and really push me on room...

 

My baseboards are and will be 2x4 - I'll be lining up four of them. They're a decent thickness marine ply, on 2x1 lumber. I needed to go a little light on the lumber to move stuff around, but they're strong enough not to flex. I'll be building modular.

 

My kids are 6 now and they mostly want to build scenery pieces (we've done a few simple plastic kits) and run trains. I currently have one controller - so am in a bit of a dilemma as to the ideal track plan.

 

I'm aiming for a through station, and then an area probably like a quarry with the ability to shunt. By the station I'd have one or two through tracks, at least one local line (maybe for loading goods like livestock). It doesn't need to be realistic, it needs to have operational interest for young kids. They'd like some gradients, so I'll need to work that in. I'm happy with 4% as nothing heavy or long will be on this layout. Most trains will be 0-4-0, some bogie diesels, and some older Hornby (from when I was a kid) that's happy with R2.

 

They'd like a lake or a quay. The quarry.

 

Definitely a "roundy" - my question is whether I should try and go for dual tracks so they can both go around at the same time (I'd buy another controller). As it's split into 4 baseboards I'd have to be relatively careful with placement of points, changes in gradient etc.

 

They want a little bit of a runway area to place the airfix kits we've been building (doesn't need to be long).

 

Do I go for one roundy, with more room for sidings etc? A steep crossover, wind around line through some hills? Or do I do dual tracks?

 

Thoughts? Suggestions? Layout would be accessible from three sides, and be stacked vertically when not in use.

 

Anyone want to upsell me removing the coffee table so I can do an 8x6?  

[Zomboid]

With multiple kids you won't regret going for 2 tracks. Races are essential, and one child being able to play on one loop whilst the other plays on the other will avoid a lot of arguments.

[Aire Head]

10 hours ago, Nova Scotian said:

UPDATE

 

Some judicious moving around of the furniture, including sending a bookcase elsewhere, has opened up room for an 8x4 OO gauge layout.

 

I've been reviewing various track guides, and am excited by the possibilities. I made the mistake of looking at 8x6 and realising what I could do with a double track roundy with more room, but that would mean two more baseboards and really push me on room...

 

My baseboards are and will be 2x4 - I'll be lining up four of them. They're a decent thickness marine ply, on 2x1 lumber. I needed to go a little light on the lumber to move stuff around, but they're strong enough not to flex. I'll be building modular.

 

My kids are 6 now and they mostly want to build scenery pieces (we've done a few simple plastic kits) and run trains. I currently have one controller - so am in a bit of a dilemma as to the ideal track plan.

 

I'm aiming for a through station, and then an area probably like a quarry with the ability to shunt. By the station I'd have one or two through tracks, at least one local line (maybe for loading goods like livestock). It doesn't need to be realistic, it needs to have operational interest for young kids. They'd like some gradients, so I'll need to work that in. I'm happy with 4% as nothing heavy or long will be on this layout. Most trains will be 0-4-0, some bogie diesels, and some older Hornby (from when I was a kid) that's happy with R2.

 

They'd like a lake or a quay. The quarry.

 

Definitely a "roundy" - my question is whether I should try and go for dual tracks so they can both go around at the same time (I'd buy another controller). As it's split into 4 baseboards I'd have to be relatively careful with placement of points, changes in gradient etc.

 

They want a little bit of a runway area to place the airfix kits we've been building (doesn't need to be long).

 

Do I go for one roundy, with more room for sidings etc? A steep crossover, wind around line through some hills? Or do I do dual tracks?

 

Thoughts? Suggestions? Layout would be accessible from three sides, and be stacked vertically when not in use.

 

Anyone want to upsell me removing the coffee table so I can do an 8x6?  

 

I'd say definitely go for a twin track roundy with kids, gives them play value.

 

In an 8' by 4' anything else you want will have to go inside the twin loops most likely so space will be limited.

 

If you need to dispose of a coffee table to get 8' by 6' I can help as I need a coffee table myself 

 

Also if your kids like the model aircraft why not make it an MoD space, shunting fuel, ammo etc around the place.

[Nova Scotian]

3 hours ago, Aire Head said:

 

I'd say definitely go for a twin track roundy with kids, gives them play value.

 

In an 8' by 4' anything else you want will have to go inside the twin loops most likely so space will be limited.

 

If you need to dispose of a coffee table to get 8' by 6' I can help as I need a coffee table myself 

 

Also if your kids like the model aircraft why not make it an MoD space, shunting fuel, ammo etc around the place.

Do you collect IKEA Lack coffee tables from the East Coast of Canada? Or pay for shipping?

 

My partner and I moved into a house, but I spend my time with my kids in another city in a smallish flat - the house purchase means I could move some furniture out of the flat and create room.

 

Thanks to both authors of previous comments re. feedback on dual track. This looks like a must - it's just a shame that it removes some room for getting some sidings or quarry workings in etc. I love the idea of an MOD space - so far they've each built a kittyhawk, one is building a Provost trainer (while the other builds a Beetle....). When I say "built" they do build it, but being 6 it takes a lot of oversight from me.

 

I'm so tempted to add two baseboards to go to 8x6, but then I'd have no operating well etc, so any derailments would involve unplugging a board or two if it happens in the middle. I am not sure I'd have the vertical storage space either.

 

I have two CJ Freezer books that have some helpful ideas - but given the "unrealistic nature" of what I'm going to be building I wonder if I can either pack more in.

[Aire Head]

3 hours ago, Nova Scotian said:

Do you collect IKEA Lack coffee tables from the East Coast of Canada? Or pay for shipping?

 

My partner and I moved into a house, but I spend my time with my kids in another city in a smallish flat - the house purchase means I could move some furniture out of the flat and create room.

 

Thanks to both authors of previous comments re. feedback on dual track. This looks like a must - it's just a shame that it removes some room for getting some sidings or quarry workings in etc. I love the idea of an MOD space - so far they've each built a kittyhawk, one is building a Provost trainer (while the other builds a Beetle....). When I say "built" they do build it, but being 6 it takes a lot of oversight from me.

 

I'm so tempted to add two baseboards to go to 8x6, but then I'd have no operating well etc, so any derailments would involve unplugging a board or two if it happens in the middle. I am not sure I'd have the vertical storage space either.

 

I have two CJ Freezer books that have some helpful ideas - but given the "unrealistic nature" of what I'm going to be building I wonder if I can either pack more in.

 

Sadly i can only do Halifax, West Yorkshire 

 

If you went 8 by 6 would you not be able to put a well in the middle?

 

i have had a play around with the space so as to give you an idea what can be acheived thats double track, leaves space for scenery and gives plenty of room for shunting about small trains. It also allows you to store two train in the outer loop.

[Nova Scotian]

5 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

 

Sadly i can only do Halifax, West Yorkshire 

 

If you went 8 by 6 would you not be able to put a well in the middle?

 

i have had a play around with the space so as to give you an idea what can be acheived thats double track, leaves space for scenery and gives plenty of room for shunting about small trains. It also allows you to store two train in the outer loop.

This is great - I'd not been thinking about the outside tracks. In your example rather than looping back in bottom right, I could have it extend into a sharp cliff/quarry area as the girls asked, and on the bottom left have it run again into the scenic area for the quay. 

 

MOD runway type structure (massively shortened) middle right, middle left can be the livestock area they want. Through station at the top, with the inner track there suitable for DMU etc. And as you state the loop up above used for storage.

 

Thank you for this

[Aire Head]

36 minutes ago, Nova Scotian said:

This is great - I'd not been thinking about the outside tracks. In your example rather than looping back in bottom right, I could have it extend into a sharp cliff/quarry area as the girls asked, and on the bottom left have it run again into the scenic area for the quay. 

 

MOD runway type structure (massively shortened) middle right, middle left can be the livestock area they want. Through station at the top, with the inner track there suitable for DMU etc. And as you state the loop up above used for storage.

 

Thank you for this

 

Id be tempted to use the wider loops at the bottom of the design as a station as you can fit platforms in between the tracks. I'd also use the two sidings paralell above this area for an engine shed as I can guarantee you will end up with more locomotives than rolling stock 

[Aire Head]

36 minutes ago, Nova Scotian said:

This is great - I'd not been thinking about the outside tracks. In your example rather than looping back in bottom right, I could have it extend into a sharp cliff/quarry area as the girls asked, and on the bottom left have it run again into the scenic area for the quay. 

 

MOD runway type structure (massively shortened) middle right, middle left can be the livestock area they want. Through station at the top, with the inner track there suitable for DMU etc. And as you state the loop up above used for storage.

 

Thank you for this

 

Id be tempted to use the wider loops at the bottom of the design as a station as you can fit platforms in between the tracks. I'd also use the two sidings paralell above this area for an engine shed as I can guarantee you will end up with more locomotives than rolling stock 

[Aire Head]

Something along the lines of this was my thinking.

 

Station area with goods siding and engine shed at the bottom, runway in the middle. I've added some more sidings to the top but I'm not sure it adds much more play value. Farm at the top left corner (has to be somewhere for the cows to go to the cattle dock from ), the sidings in the top right could become a quarry if you wanted to or could be a quay perhaps? the sidings in the centre left haven't been given a purpose yet but could easily be related to the airfield.

 

If you want I can send you the xtrkcad file 

[Harlequin]

You could start the outer platform loop further around the curve to make the outer platform longer.

 

The two station crossovers could possibly also be moved to start in the curves if the Settrack geometry could be made to work out. The advantage of doing that would be to get rid of reverse curves and keep the crossovers, and thus the outswing of vehicles ends, further away from the platforms.

[Aire Head]

4 hours ago, Harlequin said:

You could start the outer platform loop further around the curve to make the outer platform longer.

 

The two station crossovers could possibly also be moved to start in the curves if the Settrack geometry could be made to work out. The advantage of doing that would be to get rid of reverse curves and keep the crossovers, and thus the outswing of vehicles ends, further away from the platforms.

 

Any recommendations as to how I could do that, at the moment the curves are first and second radius so in order to move the turnout means putting second radius on the inside loop

[Harlequin]

1 minute ago, Aire Head said:

 

Any recommendations as to how I could do that, at the moment the curves are first and second radius so in order to move the turnout means putting second radius on the inside loop

I assumed the inner curve was R2 but it might still work if you could bring the R1 around to 22.5 degs then insert the point. Some fettling of the outer curve would then be needed to allow the crossovers to connect.

 

I wonder if there's room for R2 and R3 instead because some stock won't like R1...

 

[Aire Head]

18 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

I assumed the inner curve was R2 but it might still work if you could bring the R1 around to 22.5 degs then insert the point. Some fettling of the outer curve would then be needed to allow the crossovers to connect.

 

I wonder if there's room for R2 and R3 instead because some stock won't like R1...

 

 

I certainly think doing 2nd and 3rd radius is possible. I went for first initially as it was suggested in earlier posts, perhaps by using 4th radius short curves prior to the turnouts on the other loop the track geometry can be maintained?

[Zomboid]

Using R2/3 will allow curved crossovers (not everyone's idea of the way forward, admittedly). But that island platform will have to be narrower or on the outside giving a through line rather than a platform for both tracks.