Peco Settrack Turnouts - How to Modify to Electrofrog

[ISW]

On my layout, that is currently under design & construction, I was always planning to use Peco ST-240 / ST-241 settrack turnouts for the Brewery Lines, where only a Class 03 or Class 08 would be going. However, it seems that I also need to use them in the depot area as well due to space constraints. In fact, I think the smaller turnouts are possibly a better representation for the depot. I've already verified that all my diesel stock can comfortably negotiate 2nd-radius curves (438mm) .

 

What I want to avoid is poor loco running, and to that end I am considering modifying the Peco ST-240 (2nd radius) settrack turnouts to be, effectively, electrofrog .

 

I did a search of the forums but couldn't find anyone who had actually done this. I'm rather hoping someone has and can advise the pitfalls and best ways to go about the modification(s) .

 

What I had in mind was:

 

The majority of the modifications are straight-forward (famous last words ...) , but I foresee problems with the crossing vee modification . Is there an easy way to do this, or is it even necessary? By my measurements it reduces the 'dead area' from ~14mm to ~7mm, so is this essential / critical?

 

 

[Hound Dog]

Hi,

 

I am far from an expert on such matters but on my layout I fitted four dropper wires to each set-track point one to each stock rail and one to each crossing vee rail....... using your diagram as reference from the top stock rail down across the vee’s to the other stock rail I would use wires coloured, say red( +ve) black (-ve), red, black ........ as a belt and braces I also fitted insulated rail joiners.

 

Depending on wheel flange widths etc, you may occasionally get a short across the vee where the two rails come together....... to eliminate that completely you need to go down the road of a changeover switch married to the point movement, but that is another topic in itself.

 

Hope this makes sense and helps you on your way - cheers Richard

[DCB]

I have live frogged a lot of streamline points and a few set track ones, but I have no idea where the set track ones are at present.

I just made an arrow head of Nickel silver track so the "Shaft" fits between the rails leaving the frog and then I press it down firmly into place with a hot soldering iron, finally soldering the arrow head into place. I didn't do any of the other mods but it made a huge difference.   I did however trim and straighten the rails at the frog end to reduce the track spacing.  Some of mine were steel not N/S which made soldering it about ten times harder.

I use an old 0-6-0 T with faulty pick up which only works on one axle as a test loco .  Usually it crawls over live frog points  without faltering , if it doesn't the point needs more attention but none of mine are bonded, it is usually something like dirty blade contacts causing the problems.

[ISW]

20 hours ago, Hound Dog said:

Depending on wheel flange widths etc, you may occasionally get a short across the vee where the two rails come together....... to eliminate that completely you need to go down the road of a changeover switch married to the point movement, but that is another topic in itself.

 

Hope this makes sense and helps you on your way - cheers Richard

Richard,

 

I do intend to go down the route of 'changeover switch for the frog', hence the green wire in my diagram (sorry, maybe I should have made that clear in my diagram). So, it's not really another topic on this occasion.

 

[peach james]

Are you not approaching the point of diminishing returns, and might do better just scratch building your own turnouts?

 

It would seem to me to be a fair amount of faffle for not much gain.  If you scratchbuilt your own turnouts, you can do some interesting things to them- see the various bits in Templot over what _can_ be done.  

 

James

[ISW]

19 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

I have live frogged a lot of streamline points and a few set track ones, but I have no idea where the set track ones are at present.

I just made an arrow head of Nickel silver track so the "Shaft" fits between the rails leaving the frog and then I press it down firmly into place with a hot soldering iron, finally soldering the arrow head into place. I didn't do any of the other mods but it made a huge difference.   I did however trim and straighten the rails at the frog end to reduce the track spacing.  Some of mine were steel not N/S which made soldering it about ten times harder.

I use an old 0-6-0 T with faulty pick up which only works on one axle as a test loco .  Usually it crawls over live frog points  without faltering , if it doesn't the point needs more attention but none of mine are bonded, it is usually something like dirty blade contacts causing the problems.

 

David,

 

Thanks for the information, very useful. I like the idea of just 'melting' a metal vee into the the plastic, if I can get the alignment right! Saves on gluing ...

 

I think I can keep the settrack alignment (no need to adjust the curve beyond the frog on the diverging track) as I will use the settrack geometry when I design the layout.

 

The best I can do for 'testing' is a Bachmann class 08 (3-axle pickup), or a Lima Class 20 (2-axle pickup). If they work I'll be happy.

 

When you made the 'arrow head' did you use a single piece of rail or was it necessary to solder two side-by-side to get sufficient width before forming the 'arrow'?

 

[ISW]

1 minute ago, peach james said:

Are you not approaching the point of diminishing returns, and might do better just scratch building your own turnouts?

 

It would seem to me to be a fair amount of faffle for not much gain.  If you scratchbuilt your own turnouts, you can do some interesting things to them- see the various bits in Templot over what _can_ be done.  

 

James

James,

 

Nice idea, but I see a far larger gap than yourself in knowledge / skill / patience / etc between modifying a settrack turnout a building one from scratch. Even when I was working at 1:1 scale in the real World we still used RTR turnouts. It would have been a brave man who proposed a new design from scratch!

 

In my circumstances, I think I can get settrack turnouts to work in the space I have and I can just about handle the 'modifications'. Templot just fills me with fear ...

 

 

 

[melmerby]

Why can't you use short radius Electrofrog streamline points?

I know they are larger radius but are still quite small.

Edited May 21, 2019 by melmerby

[ISW]

53 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Why can't you use short radius Electrofrog streamline points?

I know they are larger radius but are still quite small.

Keith,

 

I had tried Peco short radius electrofrog turnouts, but couldn't get the track arrangement I wanted in the space I had when I tried to draw it. Hence the thoughts of going down the setttrack route, but modified to be 'electrofrog' ish.

 

Size wise, the photo below shows a settrack overlaid on a short radius turnout:

 

The tighter radius and increased angle of divergence should mean I can get more into the space I have. It is 'ugly' though isn't it? I'll have to improve the sleepers at the fishplate joints!

 

 

[DCB]

2 hours ago, ISW said:

David,

 

Thanks for the information, very useful. I like the idea of just 'melting' a metal vee into the the plastic, if I can get the alignment right! Saves on gluing ...

 

I think I can keep the settrack alignment (no need to adjust the curve beyond the frog on the diverging track) as I will use the settrack geometry when I design the layout.

 

The best I can do for 'testing' is a Bachmann class 08 (3-axle pickup), or a Lima Class 20 (2-axle pickup). If they work I'll be happy.

 

When you made the 'arrow head' did you use a single piece of rail or was it necessary to solder two side-by-side to get sufficient width before forming the 'arrow'?

 

I generally make arrow heads from Code 100 rail, however the gap between rails at the frog varies and I have eased the rails in so they almost touch and then slipped the arrow head in. All very trial and error  I am afraid.   Outside I use tiny micro switches from China, about 20p each to switch the frog on live frog points in addition to the tags on the points they are surface mounted and seem to have survived for 18 months or so.

[ISW]

10 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

I generally make arrow heads from Code 100 rail, however the gap between rails at the frog varies and I have eased the rails in so they almost touch and then slipped the arrow head in. All very trial and error  I am afraid.   Outside I use tiny micro switches from China, about 20p each to switch the frog on live frog points in addition to the tags on the points they are surface mounted and seem to have survived for 18 months or so.

David,

 

Thanks for the reply. Am pleased to hear you used Code-100, as that is all I have to use myself. I'll post a photo or two once I've had a go at making the necessary modifications. No promises on timescale though .

 

As to the microswitches for the frog polarity, I'm using something similar although I managed to get them from a UK supplier also at ~20p each. For details of the installation see the photos in https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/133913-burton-on-trent-south-trains-running/&do=findComment&comment=3346777 and a follow-on posting for a drawing.