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Chile & Argentina


Joseph_Pestell
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We have been thinking about having a holiday in Chile and Argentina for some time and now have booked to go next January.

 

Several days each in Santiago, Mendoza and Buenos Aires. Various activities already booked but quite a lot of free time as well. Anything recommended railway wise?

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2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

We have been thinking about having a holiday in Chile and Argentina for some time and now have booked to go next January.

 

Several days each in Santiago, Mendoza and Buenos Aires. Various activities already booked but quite a lot of free time as well. Anything recommended railway wise?

 

Theres a very musty railway museum

in Buenos Aires, just behind the three main railway termini (walk down the huge road to the left of the stations for about 10-15 mins). There’s allegedly a larger museum with rolling stock somewhere outside the city, though I’ve never been to it. 

 

The stations themselves are interesting, reflecting the wealth or poverty of each of the private companies. Much of them

was British designed and built (eg, vast iron girders bearing the Glaswegian manufacturer’s proud name...). One of them (the one on the far right) is reputed to be less safe than it used to be. 

 

One of the BsAs metro lines still operates with 1930s Belgian rolling stock, all polished veneers and cut glass light fittings. 

 

Paul

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My personal observations are of little help, as I have only visited Argentina and that in 1992.  At that time information was limited and quite a lot has changed since.  Access to information is much better nowadays, but recent reports are still quite few and far between.

 

Like London or Paris, Buenos Aires has several major (and minor) termini.  It is worth visiting all of them to see their diverse character.  They were built for the private railway companies (which were named for the national heroes, whose names crop up almost everywhere), who were responsible for separate systems and the three major gauges which are still in use.  The largest of the termini is Constitucion, where the broad gauge of the former Buenos Aires Great Southern Railway begins).  As Paul mentions, the complex at Retiro has three termini adjacent to each other (think Euston Road) - Mitre and San Martin are broad gauge, Belgrano metre gauge.  When I visited, there were some preserved items displayed at Mitre, but from Paul's response they may be at another site nearby.

 

To complete the picture, the "lesser" termini are Lacroze (Urquiza standard gauge system) and Once (Sarmiento, broad gauge).  There was preserved stock at both when I went in 1992 (including that there was once a metre-gauge loco preserved at Once), but I don't know the present situation.

 

When I visited, the railways had been nationalised into the Ferrocarriles Argentinos, but I understand that they are now operated privately.  The situation with regard to train operation and locomotive stock appears from time to time in worldwide "gen" discussion groups, but it can be difficult to get the whole picture, particularly in regard of new supplies and transfers of second-hand diesels from Europe.

 

Dealing more specifically with preservation and heritage, Argentina is a treasure trove of British equipment (among other things).  The "larger museum" that Paul refers to is at Lynch, in the suburbs of Buenos Aires.  It's the base of the Ferroclub Argentino and houses an extensive collection.  While I have seen reports and photos taken by organised group visits, I'm not sure whether it is open and what arrangements are needed for private/individual visits.  (Though I'd be interested to know!).

 

A little further from Buenos Aires, there is a collection of locomotives gathered in Concepcion del Uruguay - again I'm unsure of access, but they appear to be stored in the open.

 

Both of the above are concentrations of standard gauge locomotives, cranes and other stock from the former Urquiza system (one of the smaller concerns).  There are also numerous broad and metre gauge survivors (and, of course, narrower gauges for anyone heading for Patagonia), but finding their present locations and status is difficult.  From a list compiled in 1995, many were owned/set aside for the Museo Nacional Ferroviario, mainly in depots around the country.   (For instance numerous locomotives were listed at Tafi Viejo [near Tucuman] and Cruz del Eje [near Cordoba], many appear still at those places - which unfortunately are well away from the route proposed).

 

[Added 2] The broad gauge depot/HQ of the Ferroclub Argentino is/was at Remedios De Escalada (entrance Avenida 29 de Septembre, a district of BA), which is also houses a works/stabling point for diesels.  Current status/accessibility not known.

 

[Added] The same list records a North British 4-6-0 at Mendoza, but without giving a more precise location.  The railway runs for a long way through and around Mendoza.  Towards the outskirts at Palmira there is a large marshalling yard, while nearer the centre is Estación Mendoza, Espera De Vagones (according to Google) where there seems to be a depot full of withdrawn/stored/decrepit diesels.

 

 

Turning to Chile, Santiago is home to the Museo Ferroviario Quinta Normal - an open-air museum display of restored steam locomotives.  The highlight has to be the Kitson-Meyer from the Transandino Railway.  A bit dated, but this guide (and location map) should still be helpful: http://www.lcgb.org.uk/html/santiagomuseum.htm

 

 

Another site that is reasonably up to date and a helpful resource for both countries is this one: http://vapor-steam.blogspot.com/, however it is far from being comprehensive.

 

Edited by EddieB
Added Mendoza.
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1 hour ago, EddieB said:

My personal observations are of little help, as I have only visited Argentina and that in 1992.  At that time information was limited and quite a lot has changed since.  Access to information is much better nowadays, but recent reports are still quite few and far between.

 

Like London or Paris, Buenos Aires has several major (and minor) termini.  It is worth visiting all of them to see their diverse character.  They were built for the private railway companies (which were named for the national heroes, whose names crop up almost everywhere), who were responsible for separate systems and the three major gauges which are still in use.  The largest of the termini is Constitucion, where the broad gauge of the former Buenos Aires Great Southern Railway begins).  As Paul mentions, the complex at Retiro has three termini adjacent to each other (think Euston Road) - Mitre and San Martin are broad gauge, Belgrano metre gauge.  When I visited, there were some preserved items displayed at Mitre, but from Paul's response they may be at another site nearby.

 

To complete the picture, the "lesser" termini are Lacroze (Urquiza standard gauge system) and Once (Sarmiento, broad gauge).  There was preserved stock at both when I went in 1992 (including that there was once a metre-gauge loco preserved at Once), but I don't know the present situation.

 

When I visited, the railways had been nationalised into the Ferrocarriles Argentinos, but I understand that they are now operated privately.  The situation with regard to train operation and locomotive stock appears from time to time in worldwide "gen" discussion groups, but it can be difficult to get the whole picture, particularly in regard of new supplies and transfers of second-hand diesels from Europe.

 

Dealing more specifically with preservation and heritage, Argentina is a treasure trove of British equipment (among other things).  The "larger museum" that Paul refers to is at Lynch, in the suburbs of Buenos Aires.  It's the base of the Ferroclub Argentino and houses an extensive collection.  While I have seen reports and photos taken by organised group visits, I'm not sure whether it is open and what arrangements are needed for private/individual visits.  (Though I'd be interested to know!).

 

A little further from Buenos Aires, there is a collection of locomotives gathered in Concepcion del Uruguay - again I'm unsure of access, but they appear to be stored in the open.

 

Both of the above are concentrations of standard gauge locomotives, cranes and other stock from the former Urquiza system (one of the smaller concerns).  There are also numerous broad and metre gauge survivors (and, of course, narrower gauges for anyone heading for Patagonia), but finding their present locations and status is difficult.  From a list compiled in 1995, many were owned/set aside for the Museo Nacional Ferroviario, mainly in depots around the country.   (For instance numerous locomotives were listed at Tafi Viejo [near Tucuman] and Cruz del Eje [near Cordoba], many appear still at those places - which unfortunately are well away from the route proposed).

 

[Added 2] The broad gauge depot/HQ of the Ferroclub Argentino is/was at Remedios De Escalada (entrance Avenida 29 de Septembre, a district of BA), which is also houses a works/stabling point for diesels.  Current status/accessibility not known.

 

[Added] The same list records a North British 4-6-0 at Mendoza, but without giving a more precise location.  The railway runs for a long way through and around Mendoza.  Towards the outskirts at Palmira there is a large marshalling yard, while nearer the centre is Estación Mendoza, Espera De Vagones (according to Google) where there seems to be a depot full of withdrawn/stored/decrepit diesels.

 

 

Turning to Chile, Santiago is home to the Museo Ferroviario Quinta Normal - an open-air museum display of restored steam locomotives.  The highlight has to be the Kitson-Meyer from the Transandino Railway.  A bit dated, but this guide (and location map) should still be helpful: http://www.lcgb.org.uk/html/santiagomuseum.htm

 

 

Another site that is reasonably up to date and a helpful resource for both countries is this one: http://vapor-steam.blogspot.com/, however it is far from being comprehensive.

 

 

Even Mrs P might be willing to visit that museum in Santiago given that it is in a nice park. Let's hope the weather is good.

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There was a Chris Tarrant 'Extreme Railway Journeys' TV programme recently which might be worth watching to get an idea of what things are like now.

 

It might be on 'catch-up' or elsewhere on the 'Net.

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1 hour ago, Allegheny1600 said:

It all sounds fascinating to me, I hope you have a great time and stay safe!

 I don't envy you the flight but from the little I have seen, these countries railways look to be really interesting.

Cheers,

John

 

 

I'm not looking forward to the flights either! Red-eyes both ways.

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On 21/05/2019 at 13:17, Fenman said:

 

One of the BsAs metro lines still operates with 1930s Belgian rolling stock, all polished veneers and cut glass light fittings. 

 

Paul

 

If you mean the Line A stock like this..........

7-2097.JPG.eb5cb66134cdbef2ee9a5a92635d0fec.JPG

....they were all replaced several years ago, either by new stock (Chinese?) or yet more secondhand purchases from Japan, which they seem to favour in Buenos Aires.

The A line stock actually dated from a lot earlier than that, and were rebuilt - more of a cut/shut job - in the 1930's. The first 4 cars were built by Dick Kerr, I believe, in 1913, and originally ran in the streets beyond the underground section. At least one of those is preserved by the local tramway society in Bs As........

7-2082.JPG.998f3b4201fdf952a8bc77199aa8d98f.JPG

 

I visited Argentina back in 2007 (on an organised trip) and in 2009 and found it a fascinating country.

 

The tramway preservation group do still operate on the street tracks that lead to Polvorin metro depot on some weekday evenings and weekend afternoons as far as I know. You would need to do an internet search for current information. 

This was their 1955 built car seen in 2007.....

7-2116.JPG.47ad74c5d722f67de63180e8417d1093.JPG

 

I found the railways to be very interesting, though their security staff seemed to have an aversion to you taking photos of it in several places that we visited. There is a lot of "old" infrastucture, mostly originating in the UK, but it is well scattered around and not well documented. There has also been a lot of modernisation work on the services around Bs As since I was there in 2009, so lots of what I saw and photographed has disappeared.

The railway museum at Retiro is basically small exhibits, though there was a Ruston (from memory) petrol loco on display inside. Nice if you like things like this though....

9-326.JPG.171d91bd7e3766a63ad93c77df9a8e22.JPG

9-318.JPG.d99a1795b5293125d3ad12a2c6d7cb87.JPG

 

 

 

Edited by Johann Marsbar
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2 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

 

If you mean the Line A stock like this..........

7-2097.JPG.eb5cb66134cdbef2ee9a5a92635d0fec.JPG

....they were all replaced several years ago, either by new stock (Chinese?) or yet more secondhand purchases from Japan, which they seem to favour in Buenos Aires.

The A line stock actually dated from a lot earlier than that, and were rebuilt - more of a cut/shut job - in the 1930's. The first 4 cars were built by Dick Kerr, I believe, in 1913, and originally ran in the streets beyond the underground section. At least one of those is preserved by the local tramway society in Bs As...

...

 

Thanks for that update - really helpful. I'm back in BsAs in a few weeks, so I'll look out for the "new" stock on Line A - though I'm sorry the old stuff has finally gone.

 

Incidentally, I found staff in signal boxes around BsAs to be very friendly and welcoming - it started when one of them saw me taking shots from the public side of his box and he invited me in. I spent several happy hours inside a couple of them, taking photos. The signallers I encountered only spoke Spanish. A gift to them as I left was really welcomed.

 

Paul

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11 hours ago, Fenman said:

 

Thanks for that update - really helpful. I'm back in BsAs in a few weeks, so I'll look out for the "new" stock on Line A - though I'm sorry the old stuff has finally gone.

 

Paul

 

From memory, the A line stock was designated a "National Monument" so I don't think they could, theoreticaly, scrap them when they had been replaced. They were offered worldwide to preservation groups, but I don't think there were any takers, rather surprisingly. Seems likely that the stock is still in storage over there, though a set or two were retained as "heritage" stock and I think they still get used occasionally.

 

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Although very remote from BsAs, my boy visited "La Trochita" whilst travelling through Patagonia several years ago.

.

He booked tickets thro a travel agency in BsAs and asked about access to the footplate, whereupon the nice lady told him"you can arrange that locally".

.

He visited the depot the evening before he was was due to travel, with a slab of beers and some other "duty free" goodies..........

.

His footplate photos taken the next day are astounding.........he didn't get to sample the coaching stock.

.

Being Welsh helped him as well.......until a lady spoke to him in a Hispanic / Cymric hybrid dialect !!!

.

As for his tales of Santiago, well......... Very pro-British, and a former Dorset fire appliance, still with former livery and  UK number plates.

 

Edited by br2975
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As I have been researching this over the last couple of days, I am really regretting that we have not arranged two hotels in Argentina rather than just the one in Beunos Aires. The railways look really interesting and I definitely want to take a look at the preserved trams.

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There is a lot of surviving railway infrastructure that was manufactured in the UK, given the mainly British ownership of many of the lines prior to Nationalisation in the late 1940's.

Most of it still proclaimed where it was built, though there was a fashion of removing builders plates on non-Argentine manufactured items in the past.

 

I was particularly interested in seeing anything that was produced here in Ipswich and exported there, so kept my eyes open during both of my trips there. Possibly spotted one turntable at Cordoba, but was able to positively identify a water tank at Marcos Paz (on one of the passenger lines out of Bs As) as being a Ransomes & Rapier product...(seen on the right here)

7-1918.JPG.7852cd77cdcdc8afacedebce3aa35bb1.JPG

 

and an added atraction here was this rather well looked after loco outside the station...

7-1914.JPG.82f026e7761fb1e4630367029f189f50.JPG

 

Additionally, this Rapier built water crane survives at Bartolome Mitre station on one of the Bs As electrified routes out of Retiro....

9-414.jpg.be1e6d949a975612fa9f2178b5603eb3.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 3 months later...

In Chile you might try the occasional diesel hauled weekend excursion trains Tren del Recuerdo which run from Santiago (Estacion Central) to the port of San Antonio and back.  A great day out (you'll be the only foreigners on the train) and you get to see some of the countryside and the Pacific.  I seem to recall paying about GBP25 per head, and with four people you can book a table.  Modest refreshments are provided.

Some of the coaches are clerestory, and my train in Nov 2017 was triple headed in both directions.  Easy online booking at

http://www.efe.cl/empresa/servicios/trenes-turisticos/recuerdo.html

 

20171125_201438.jpg.7ec9ae3b652c101d377e9918a003d536.jpg

 

 

20171125_093924.jpg.dd870fe4e3222391383ca48dbc3561ab.jpg

 

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i havent personally been to south america yet but i know of a lot of the lines, when your travelling between santiago and mendoza, if you take the route 60 (chile side) route 7 (argentine side) through Valparaiso, you will be tracing the route of the Transandine railway all the trackbed survives except for some landslides at higher altitude, one of the border tunnels used to be for this.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Los+Andes,+Valparaiso+Region,+Chile/@-32.941571,-70.4319369,10z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x967d56650d073f17:0xe2ef6e4bd8c5bdf3!8m2!3d-32.8337995!4d-70.5972179

 

i dont know if you would any interest in the remains of the nitrate lines like Tocopilla or Taltal which both each have a surviving loco plinth somewhere in their port towns, the Antofagasta & Bolivia up to La Paz is still in use, they have 1 steam loco in storage in steamable condition and another plinthed, many of the fleet can be found in the well known Uyuni grave yard

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Uyuni,+Bolivia/@-20.4909013,-69.0207913,7z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x93ffbad958d3f2bd:0x1455841e2c4e6653!8m2!3d-20.4604695!4d-66.8270874

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