LED lighting strips for layout lighting

[Ruston]

Evening all,

 

I've had a 5 metre strip of LED lights for a while now. It was given to me by a friend but has no power supply and so has not been tested or fitted to the layout. Earlier this evening I went to B&Q to see if I could get one there. It turns out that they don't sell the power supplies seperately and I would have to buy the strip too. I have since been informed that the power units can be bought at electrical supply specialists but whilst looking at the strips in B&Q it got me thinking about the type of light emitted by the LEDS - warm or white and how bright.

 

The strips in B&Q were all the same 4000 somethingorothers for their warmth/whiteness, and I realised that I have no idea what the one that I have is, so before buying a seperate power supply for something that may not be suitable anyway, and the possible need to buy strips and power supply from new, I thought I'd ask the good people of RMweb...

 

What warmth/whiteness LEDs do you use? What light warmth rating and brightness rating should I be looking for when buying new strips?

[sir douglas]

ive got myself a roll of led strip and transformer plug from Layouts4u but i havent tried it yet. On Green Ayre, jamie uses white and yellow alongside each other to make a reasonable daylight colour

[RexAshton]

I tried bright white first and found the light too blue. I've used these on my current layout in warm white and they look very much like standard tungsten light.

[Harlequin]

Hi Dave,

 

Warm Whites are like old tungsten bulbs, a little bit more yellow than sunlight but perfect if you're after a hazy summer's evening effect.

Cool Whites are distinctly blue, like an old fluorescent tube. Too blue to create a natural sunlight effect.

 

The ideal for typical daytime sunlight is somewhere between the two:

 

You can get LED tapes now that have both Warm and Cool LEDs and they come with a controller that allows you to set the balance between warm and cool and also The overall brightness, which gives you lots of flexibility.

 

The LED tapes sold in DIY stores are usually not very bright - the LEDs are not packed very densely along the tape. If you want reasonable brightness it might be worth looking for "architectural grade" tape.

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Harlequin

[rue_d_etropal]

Just an idea, I have used the cheap Xmas type sets of LED lights, batter operated, only 3 volts. Wonder if a simple battery pack could be used, as I have found with one set I had that they lasted at least a week on continuous power. The LEDs draw so little power that they say not to use rechargible batteries.

[d00m]

It might seem like a daft point but worth checking out. Most rolls of LED strips run off a 12v supply. However when designing my own coach lighting, I got hold of some warm white LED strips (1.5m long) that ran off 5v. Rather than B&Q you may be better off looking online at well known shopping site or the auction site. Most of the 12v sets come with remote control so you can dim them as well.

[mkrob]

A word of warning about LED power supplies. I bought 2 off a "well known shopping site" and after putting one on test with my existing led strip, it exploded after 20 minutes when I was standing next to it!  

[RichardL]

I've spent some time and effort looking at led lights, and demonstrated my findings at scaleforum last year. 

 

Rather than a long, detailed and very boring post I'll  make some suggestions, based on detailed colour readings and calculations.

 

Firstly, you'll get what you pay for! Some of the cheapish led tapes give very poor colour rendition, (tending towards a lack of green (no, you can't put a green filter over them, doesn't work like that. )). Many of the cheaper tapes also have a wide spacing and narrow beam, leading to a noticable pooling of light, especially when parallel to the track.

 

My conclusion was that the best colour and light intensity that I could find was to use two strips of bright white and one strip of warm white, this gave a colour temp of 5500k and a very even colour rendition. Some people commented that it was very bright,  however, the numbers showed that it wasn't as bright as natural daylight, but will provide all the light that I need for my layout. 4ft x 18in. Having tried my lights out on a much larger layout, the owner has decided to go with a similar set up. A single strip of each of warm and bright white was tried, giving a good colour balance but not quite enough overall light on a large (3ft deep) area.

 

The power supply unit for my cameo layout would need to be a 36 watt supply.

 

The supplier that I used was led hut. Many others are available.

 

Cheers

 

Richard Lane

[DCB]

4 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

Just an idea, I have used the cheap Xmas type sets of LED lights, batter operated, only 3 volts. Wonder if a simple battery pack could be used, as I have found with one set I had that they lasted at least a week on continuous power. The LEDs draw so little power that they say not to use rechargible batteries.

The reason not to use rechargables is they can discharge very quickly delivering quite a lot of amps, easily enough to melt the typical LED wiring and start a fire.  I found this out the hard way when my rechargable battery powered Lima Class 37 shorted and it melted the body.  Incidentally the only decent AA rechargables I have found are Nikon Coolpix batteries, no idea why.

Edited May 22, 2019 by DavidCBroad

[justin1985]

Power supplies that you get from LED specialists online are generally just generic laptop style power supplies, with a power jack to screw terminal adapter included. 

 

LED strips tend to be either 12 or 24v, and amperage is generally quoted in amps per metre, which usually just reflects the number of LEDs per metre of tape. That way you can very easily work out what specification of power supply you need.

 

The big question, as everyone is alluding to, is colour and angle of the light. This is where you get what you pay for online from a seller who has a wide range, but tend to be ripped off in DIY sheds or "big brands" who package up the cheapest type at the price of the most expensive. 

 

I'd suggest an important addition is a diffuser. You can buy a wide range of aluminium extrusions to hold the tape, with plastic slide in diffusers of different levels of frostedness to break up the impression of a series of individual spots of light.

 

I bought a strip of RGBW tape to experiment with sunrise/sunset effects - you can adjust each colour independently using either a dedicated controller or something like an Arduino. I downloaded an Arduino program and circuit that allows you to type in a colour temperature in K as per the scale Harlequin posted, and it will adjust the proportions of RGB and W light from the strip to approximate that temperature. Nifty, if I ever get around to getting it working!

 

J

[TheQ]

When using a generic PSU, I alway try to get one of at least twice the expected current capacity. PSU's like the burnt one shown, are generally capable at running the rated current... But not for hour after hour when they would get very hot..

[The Johnster]

Harlequin's colour chart is very useful.  I use Maplin's anglepoise LED strips, but the principle is the same in regard to colour 'warmth'.  Maplin's are as the snows of yesteryear, sadly, but I am sure similar lamps can still be found.  They are bright enough, 'diffuse' well, and adjustable, with 3 brightness settings and 3 'warmth' settings, having 2 strips of cool lights and a central warm strip.  The 3 settings are all cool, all warm, or mix.  I rarely use all warm, unless I am trying to reproduce a bright evening ambience, as the effect I am going for is that of a dull and overcast day, the most common weather in the South Wales valleys that I model, and for most hilly areas.  The sun is behind the mountain for much of the time even on sunny days, and we don't get those East Anglian big skies. 

 

The natural light in the railway room is subdued daylight, so when the real weather is dull and overcast the anglepoises can be used on 'cool' as 'fill' lighting at low brightness and the brightness can be increased as real night approaches.  As the room lighting is pretty white and neutral, and not particularly bright, the layout lighting takes over in a fairly effective way.  

 

Angle is very important; my view is that typical layout lighting is far too warm and far too directly overhead, unless you are modelling the tropics.  Real daylight in these latitudes illuminates the sides of stock and buildings much more than such directly overhead lighting sources can, so my anglepoises are offset to the front of the layout.  This can give trouble with shadows when I am leaning in to uncouple, but looks ok when I'm sitting in the operating seat.  Natural daylight with some low level cool fill from the anglepoises is best, and I can replicate different weather and seasonal lighting conditions to some extent.  I had all sorts of plans at one time for strip lighting on gantries but in practice am quite happy with this setup, only ever originally intended to be temporary but unlikely now to be replaced.  

 

And my lighting doesn't overheat...

[Ian Morgan]

LED strips are, generally, safer, run cooler (except the power supply), and lighter weight than what we have used in the past.

 

However, what I don't like to see at exhibitions is the way they reflect on the rail tops. You see lots of individual bright lights dotted along the rail top.

 

When I look to use them for my next layout, I will be experimenting with some form of diffuser to try to avoid this problem.

 

Has anyone else noticed this?

 

[PMP]

 

If you don’t know what power requirements the strip you have needs, I’d be tempted not to use them on potential safety concerns. On Shelfie1 I have a mix of fluorescent tube and blue LED strip lighting. These can vary the lighting impact on the layout and are useful to mitigate and lighting cast from any ambient light source. The LED is powered by a screwfix step down transformer 240-12v and is rated in excess of the requirement for the 2m of LEDs in use.

I’m currently using screwfix LED tubes at 4000k, these give a bright overcast type of illumination, are mains powered, very light and plug and play out of the box.

 

https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2018/11/29/throwback-thursday-illuminating-shelfie2/

[PMP]

26 minutes ago, Ian Morgan said:

 

When I look to use them for my next layout, I will be experimenting with some form of diffuser to try to avoid this problem.

 

Has anyone else noticed this?

 

 

It depends on the orientation of the strips to the rail,  but yes you can get those reflections. I don’t with the tubes as they are diffused with the covers. See pic attached.

[Ruston]

Thanks for all the replies. I've looked online and some of the strips and power supplies cost a lot more than those in B&Q, which come with a power supply. The varietyonline  is mind-boggling.

 

39 minutes ago, PMP said:

I’m currently using screwfix LED tubes at 4000k, these give a bright overcast type of illumination, are mains powered, very light and plug and play out of the box.

 

Could you give me a link to the specific tubes, please, Paul?

[Harlequin]

FYI: There's more info about dual-white LED tapes here:

https://www.instyleled.co.uk/dual-white-led-tapes-colour-temperature-changing/

 

I have no connection with them other than being a satisfied customer.

 

[PMP]

1 hour ago, Ruston said:

 

 

Could you give me a link to the specific tubes, please, Paul?

https://www.screwfix.com/p/sylvania-led-linear-under-cabinet-batten-cool-white-16w-1500mm/1089x

 

this is the sort to start looking at, various lengths to choose from and temperatures. If you’re down this way you can drop in for a look. 

[47137]

1 hour ago, Ruston said:

Thanks for all the replies. I've looked online and some of the strips and power supplies cost a lot more than those in B&Q, which come with a power supply. The varietyonline  is mind-boggling.

 

I put four parallel strips above my layout - three daylight and one warm white. This ended up a bit intense so I disconnected one of the daylight strips. Warmer whites have a more visible effect than cooler whites for the same number of lumens, so I suggest you start with some cool overall illumination and then add something to warm it up and make it more natural. Possibly strips of cool LEDs, and a single halogen spot at one end of the layout to make for "sunlight" with "shadows".

 

I wrote up my lighting rig here: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blogs/entry/16256-lighting/

 

and the power supply arrangements are here: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blogs/entry/16297-lighting-part-2/

 

It's all still working fine four years on. I am still pleased with the lack of shadows on the backscene.

 

- Richard.

[steve1]

I've just got one of these to try out for Rectory Farm Sidings. Plugging it in and switching on to see if it worked and seems to be just right for the job.

 

steve

[Ian Morgan]

I know that some modellers in the US are now using LED panels, like this one so I am thinking about getting one to try out. I am hoping it will produce an even, diffused lighting.

 

I would prefer not to have mains voltages on the layout, but it appears it can take a low voltage feed from its drive power supply which could sit on the floor.

 

[47137]

On 23/05/2019 at 15:10, Ian Morgan said:

I know that some modellers in the US are now using LED panels, like this one so I am thinking about getting one to try out. I am hoping it will produce an even, diffused lighting.

 

I would prefer not to have mains voltages on the layout, but it appears it can take a low voltage feed from its drive power supply which could sit on the floor.

 

I have one of these panels on the ceiling of a 3 x 3.5 m room, it is good and looks rather like a skylight. I think it would work well for any layout, as long as you can find a way to fix it - this depends really on whether you are prepared to drill holes in the ceiling. There are smaller versions 300 x 300 mm and maybe two or three of these would be better for a layout along the edge of a room.

 

- Richard.

[mjcampbell]

I've given a lot of thought to LED lighting, and looked at a lot of layouts, before deciding what to buy for my layout. To my mind "cool white" LED's are typically too cold, some types look quite blue - and I have seen layouts lit with a blue-purple light at exhibitions. The sky may be 6000K but using lighting that cold gives a blue cast. On the other hand warm white (3000K) is too yellow, now I find a yellow cast more acceptable to the eye as a sunny day, and being similar to tungsten light we are perhaps more used to it, but we can do better. Some have used a mix of cool and warm LED's to good effect, and I've even seen cool LED's painted over with a clear yellow to warm them up.

 

However I found it is possible to buy "Natural White" LED's, with a colour temperature of 4000-4500K. They seem quite rare compared to cool and warm white, but they are available online, so I got a strip to experiment with. I blogged about it here (including links to the strip I bought on Amazon):

https://michaelsrailways.blogspot.com/2018/04/lighting-with-leds-experimentation.html

 

I used a length on my Son's small layout, the result is I think a good colour balance and brightness.

 

IMG_5956 by Michael Campbell, on Flickr

 

I've since gone on to use more of the same strip on my embryonic layout. No scenery yet, but again I think the colour looks right.

 

 

More about how I added it - and the power-pack here:

http://michaelsrailways.blogspot.com/2019/06/adding-light-to-hexworthy.html

 

 

In fact the two strips of "5050" (high power) LED's are too bright, so I've now fitted a cheap dimmer as seen in this photo. I may experiment with removing some of the LED's. But I have made great effort to get the lighting right forward, pointing back, to avoid the front of the trains being in shadow, and there is no sign of spots of light on the rails. There's no diffuser, but the dimmer and crumpled foil behind the fascia might help. 

 

In terms of power supply, the high power LED's such as the ones I have use 1A per metre, I figured that I'd get a supply capable of more than required so got a 6A supply. In the end I used 3m, so well within the capability, it runs warm but seems OK after running a few hours at full brightness.