Heljan announce Class 45 in OO

[rob D2]

I’m not generally a Heljan fan, and remember being under whelmed with the groundbreaking 47 in 2001.

 

however , things move on and a “ peak off “ with Bachmann will be interesting , as this scenario doesn’t happen that often .

 

 

 

all the best

Rob 

chairman, D2 modelling institute of the shed .

[adb968008]

Oh ye of little faith...
 

An EP on the forum is a gift from above, not a hook a duck competition. It’s a chance to say what you want, or don’t want. 

Since Ben came on board, he’s brought us some much needed class 27’s, some of the best paint finished class 33’s ever made to date, some very detailed 33/1’s also, which exceeds many contemporaries.
33050/051 are probably the nicest rtr diesels made for some years, if 45106 gets the same treatment it’ll be something special.

 

The 45 needs work, but let’s be fair, the EP is an EP, it was clearly stated it was an EP, and issues previously raised are stated to be being addressed. At the end of the day, Heljans commercial success depends on consumer confidence, so let’s take the window to get a decent model, by not scaring the bloke away.

My two pet issues are rivets and Ive mentioned the grills before. Both are on the list.
 

At risk of being constructive, Ive highlighted a few nit-picky items which are more about attaining A* grades, than serious issues:

 

 

1. Red circle, can the builders plate be separate, or at least not raised beyond a minimal amount.. most later life blue 45’s didn’t have the Builders plate (though some had a blank Plate that was almost, if not, flush, or if  removed Only the corrosion outline could be visible but It was flush).. the Mainline/Replica/Bachmann one was a Bug bear having a blue lump here Pretending it wasn’t... if I can only have 1 wish from this list, this is it.

2. Blue circles.. Missing lamp irons here.

3. Purple circles.. A really nice to have, but the water jet outlets for the screen wiper.

4. Green circle.. Looking at other pictures it looks flush to the body side, and rivets flush too, just a very subtle outline.

5. orange circle on bogie.. missing Speedo cable.

 

hope this helps.

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by adb968008

[YesTor]

On 22/06/2020 at 12:33, 61661 said:

Over the last couple of years when we've made the effort to do that with CAD images, we've received surprisingly little useful feedback. 

 

Hello Ben,

 

That might well be true.  However, it is also worth considering - and this is aimed at all manufacturers, not only yourself/Heljan - that we [the modelling public] are very often presented with either a CAD image, or a photo of a 3D print or pre-production sample - which in most cases will only show any given model from very limited viewing angles.  Hopefully you will agree that this can be quite different to being able to handle your 3D print/pre-production sample 'in the flesh', so to speak, and thus being able to review objectively from all conceivable vantage points.  As such, it is often difficult to pinpoint something that may be perceived as an error when you are staring at a single-angled shot and having no further means to make a fair analysis.  Sometimes even if there is doubt in my mind that something isn't quite right, I know that myself I am often hesitant to raise a point unless I'm absolutely certain, as I realize how a single forum post can sometimes spiral into unnecessary frenzy...

 

Furthermore - again I'm thinking specifically of a non-Heljan project here - I've sometimes seen startling variations between CAD, 3D print and PP samples - even though all have apparently been produced from the same blueprint, so as such it is perhaps inevitable that some issues may well only become apparent at perhaps later stages within a project? 

 

Moving on, and with respect to the whole matter regarding the overall shape of the new Heljan 45, and whilst it may now have become more evident since myself highlighting said issues via editing the supplied PP sample photos accordingly, I do however feel that - if only to be fair to other contributors on this topic - that I should highlight that these issues have been raised several times and as far back as June 2019:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lastly, whether these issues are correctable at this stage is of course up to you guys at Heljan.  For what it's worth - all I can say from a modeller's perspective, is that for myself - growing up watching trains on the Midland Mainline during the 1970s - is that the Class 45 represents the locomotive type I saw pretty much every day, and as a 4 year old lad gazing up at what were then to me absolutely huge, growling monsters - the 'droopy-eyed' representation that the Heljan sample currently seems to depict certainly doesn't resonate well in my memory.  In short, if I had to make a decision right now on the Heljan 'Peak', then I'm afraid my money would be staying firmly in my pocket. 

 

I'm sure myself, and many others here, will look forward to your updates regarding the aforementioned issues.

 

PS...  As pointed out to myself also - and maybe these are simply omitted from the sample - but the speedo cable and grease points appear to be absent from the bogie?  (As mentioned to myself by @D1051)

 

Best

Al

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by YesTor

[MGR Hooper!]

21 hours ago, 61661 said:

 

It’s not possible to apply liveries to 3D CAD artwork as far as I’m aware. I’m sure you’d have seen it by now if it was possible as it would be a useful tool! 
 

It actually is possible, you can apply a texture to any 3D model, you can also have a livery digitally edited onto a drawing or image of the CAD work. Hornby has been doing it for ages on their website (and most recently on their CAD models and so does Cavalex. @RBE can give you more information as he textured the CAD for their Class 91. And in the past his own projects as well.

 

Quote

It’s also very difficult to paint 3D printed parts as the paint doesn’t adhere very well (at least without lots of rubbing down and preparation). 
 

 

Ummmm who told you that??? The 3D printing industry would've been a disaster if that was true. It depends on the material and the way it is cleaned post-printing. There's a lot of resin based materials that turn out pretty much just injection moulded parts. The factory that does the 3D printing does the initial cleaning as well. A quick soak in IPA when you receive it and a coat of good primer is all you need. Many companies actually use 3D printing to make model trains.

 

This is our Indian Railways BOXN. Fun fact, all we did when we got it was rinse it with soapy water and gave it a coat of simple modelling primer... the image speaks for itself!

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by MGR Hooper!

[BR Blue]

11 hours ago, maico said:

 

Well, no. In the first 2 minutes Sam says the RAF 156 dates back many years to an old Lima body!

 

 

He did mention it as he looked into after being surprised by the price and thinking it was a bit of a bargin which it obviously is not. He never mentions that is inaccurate. He is more concerned about the packaging I agree that its a poor model and should be in Railroad range but its a superficial review and far inferior to most magazine ones. It is also supposed to be one of his better ones. Personally I have stopped watching his reviews.

Edited June 23, 2020 by BR Blue
Spelling

[Covkid]

12 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I’m not generally a Heljan fan, and remember being under whelmed with the groundbreaking 47 in 2001.

 

however , things move on and a “ peak off “ with Bachmann will be interesting , as this scenario doesn’t happen that often .

 

I don’t worry about “influencers “on the internet ( and in fact wished that form
of paid internet vanity didn’t exist ) , but to be honest I thought his target market was smokey joe and 10 year olds , but I do respect the opinion of those I know on here.

 

all the best

Rob 

chairman, D2 modelling institute of the shed .

 

Surely the whole point of a manufacturer bringing a new product to the market, of something previously produced, is that it is better ? I have been modeling fifty years and back in my teens I bought a Palitoy / Mainline 45039. I was unhappy with the nose so I made a horizontal slice through the seam, back to the windows, then cut it off.  I glued some plasticard onto the nose shaped to what I thought was the best profile.

 

Fast forward to Bachmann's product and I am pleased with a split head code green  verson and have a Modelzone 45048. My old Palitoy 45039 bit the dust years ago. So being happy with the Bachmann products I have no real desire to buy a Heljan "peak" unles it is so much better than what I already have. So I am a bystander in his, and the pictures I have seen so far mean that I still contented with what I already have.

 

The common theme I see in Heljan is cabs / winsdows, and bodyside grilles. The bizarre part is that there are a number of class 45s n preservation and millions of photos available to get the model right. So in a word, the current renders of the Heljan 45 in OO suiggests to me that it is actually a step backward from the Bachmann offering.    

[Waverley West]

In the interest of fairness, I thought I'd show a couple of pics of the competition - Bachmann's 45 of course.

 

To me, it looks like a Peak, but perhaps the Peak experts amongst us could enlighten us as to its failings as regards shape. After all, no model is perfect.

 

The slightly lower shoulder of the Bachmann version, taking in the cab doors, compared with Heljan's current iteration is immediately apparent. Heljan's slightly high shoulder gives the model a bit of a hunched appearance in my view and spoils the impression as the eye moves down from the cab to the bodyside.

 

So Bachmann takes an early lead, but what are its good points and its shortcomings? I like my Bachmann Peaks and Heljan's version is going to have to be significantly better to get me to part with my hard-earned cash. I'm sure I'm not the only modeller in this position.

 

It would be interesting to hear people's critique of the Bachmann model as well as the current Heljan version. I'm thinking overall shape really, rather than details (boiler ports, position of ETH cables, etc.).

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Waverley West

[66738]

I hedged my bets and ordered two Bachmann (040 and 022 with different body side designs for variety) and two Heljan (033 and 118). I believe Heljan can rectify the rivets, but short of starting again with the tooling, I am doubtful they can do much about the roof profile. But I’m not giving up on them. They know what is required, and we may get a miracle and see the changes that are desperately needed. Fingers crossed!

Otherwise 033 pre order will have to be cancelled and if Bachmann could announce a 45/1, 118 would also be.

All those sales that look like they could lose really do add up, and financially it really could be damaging. Damaging enough to bite the bullet and have another go at the tooling? Not sure. 

Is might be just me, but I really thought in this modern age of laser measuring and CAD designs, it would be more commonplace to get models pretty much spot on. 
 66738

Edited June 23, 2020 by 66738

[Phil Parker]

OK - We're busy. Topic locked. I'll have a tidy up and everyone can go away and calm down a bit.

 

[Phil Parker]

The topic is now unlocked. Play nicely or the hammer of moderation will be deployed.

[Gilbert]

Does that come in a presentation case with the spike of exasperation?

[rob D2]

It’s funny how opinions snowball on forums into appearing a bit aggressive.

Personally I’m sitting here Feeling no Ill will to those Who I may disagree with, in real life a lot of communication is by body language etc, and I’m sure that subtlety is lost in the written word - but I’ll certainly tone it down.

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

It’s funny how opinions snowball on forums into appearing a bit aggressive.

Personally I’m sitting here Feeling no Ill will to those Who I may disagree with, in real life a lot of communication is by body language etc, and I’m sure that subtlety is lost in the written word - but I’ll certainly tone it down.

Whilst we can argue and disagree about trains when it moves into personal insults then a line has been crossed and I hope the person who did cross that line understands and has apologised.

 

Anyway, my wife was sat by me last night watching the Mandalorian, she began shaking her arms frantically and I had to chastise for doing a Peak Army acceleration display.  She had absolutely no idea what I was on about.  I suppose it at least wasn't the one armed salute Rimmer salute.  

[47406]

It is neat to see Heljan/Ben participating so openly and directly here. It gives me some confidence that the more significant issues being identified will get fixed before these hit the shelves for real. Inevitably, there is a "signal to noise" factor in distilling what is worth paying attention to, but it sounds like the important stuff is filtering itself to the top of the pond

 

I don't buy many new locos these days, too expensive (please... can we skip the usual heated responses to that kind of statement....) but i will definitely be buying a couple of these. I am pretty confident about making that statement now.

 

I have a couple of old Replica ones that i've put bachy chasss under & have flushglaze to add, i plan to keep those. I also have a shoebox full of various Bachmann and parts ones that all need some work to get them to my intended target state, i'll probably end up finishing a pair of those off because i have two more modern chassis, but likely not any time soon. A Peak model on a par with the other current models out there has definitely been a hole in the market for a long time so i'm looking forward to this arriving :-)

[philiprporter]

Likewise 47406 I'm looking forward to this - I have an O gauge Heljan Peak and its a belter - stunning paint job by Lee on the OO gauge pre-production sample too. 

[soulofwigan]

1 hour ago, 47406 said:

I don't buy many new locos these days, too expensive (please... can we skip the usual heated responses to that kind of statement....) but i will definitely be buying a couple of these. I am pretty confident about making that statement now.

 

 

I think that is a pretty bold statement considering the upcoming Heljan class 25 has an RRP of £170 and I'd imagine this 45 to probably be even more expensive.

Edited June 23, 2020 by soulofwigan
format

[Class 158 productions]

The Bachmann model seems to have been lowered in price, as they realise that they can’t compete at its older price. But, although it’s a newer model, the class 40 is much more expensive. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Class 158 productions

[Clearwater]

It’s interesting to look at the pictures of the o gauge model - eg http://www.tower-models.com/towermodels/ogauge/Heljan/locos/class45/index.htm

 

I’m no expert but:

a) grill detail appears more accurate

b) the body curve definitely begins below the cab rainstrip and there appears to be a slight taper on the top of the cab door?

c) the rivets/screws appear to be too prominent.

 

I’ve always had a soft spot for peaks particularly 45060 which was the first loco number I noted when I was first taken trainspotting in 1982 so I’ll probably order the Rails special of that loco.

 

David

[philiprporter]

32 minutes ago, Clearwater said:

It’s interesting to look at the pictures of the o gauge model - eg http://www.tower-models.com/towermodels/ogauge/Heljan/locos/class45/index.htm

 

I’m no expert but:

a) grill detail appears more accurate

b) the body curve definitely begins below the cab rainstrip and there appears to be a slight taper on the top of the cab door?

c) the rivets/screws appear to be too prominent.

 

I’ve always had a soft spot for peaks particularly 45060 which was the first loco number I noted when I was first taken trainspotting in 1982 so I’ll probably order the Rails special of that loco.

 

David

If its any help, the rivets are very subtle and well-executed on my O gauge Peak - they don't look anything like as pronounced as they appear on the top few photos on the Tower Models site (I guess this may be down to contrast/lighting etc.) and I suspect the same will be the case for the OO gauge version.

 

Likewise always loved the Peaks - happy memories of trans-Pennine journeys behind them back in the day!

[PJT]

22 minutes ago, Clearwater said:

I’ve always had a soft spot for peaks

 

There's a lot of us have always had a very big soft spot for Peaks and of course that's precisely why emotions run so high over this new model.  Anyone who's travelled behind a Peak that was (as an example, remembering my own runs with them) being urged heroically at speed over the South Devon banks, couldn't fail to have a soft spot for them. 

 

Wonderful memories.

 

Pete T.

 

 

 

[96701]

I'm still going to get one to represent Lytham St Annes.

 

[PJT]

23 minutes ago, 96701 said:

I'm still going to get one to represent Lytham St Annes.

It'll be 45049 The Staffordshire Regiment (The Prince of Wales's Own) for me.  It was dog-eared and filthy but gave us the best run ever between Exeter and Truro.  I can still hear it now, 43 years later.  No wonder I get tinnitus.  Also loved it for the double-liner nameplate.

 

Pete T.

 

[Porcy Mane]

Maybe that's the problem. They've fitted 7mm rivets to the 4mm model?

[Damo666]

11 hours ago, Waverley West said:

In the interest of fairness, I thought I'd show a couple of pics of the competition - Bachmann's 45 of course.

 

 

 

 

1 minute Off-Topic slot:

 

I spent ages looking at these pictures trying to figure out if its of real prototype locos or exceptional modelling.

 

Still not sure.

 

Back to On-Topic rantin... debates

[woodenhead]

47 minutes ago, BigAndy said:

 

From reading all the posts, no-one has been personally insulted.............therefore no apologies from anyone are necessary.

That's because what was said was deleted by the mods earlier today, it certainly deserved an apology to the person it was aimed at.