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Heljan announce Class 45 in OO


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5 minutes ago, 61661 said:

We are promised new samples soon. Unfortunately the factory handling this project has been badly affected by Coronavirus, not just with lockdowns but also with subsequent staff shortages. Apologies for the delay - we are extremely frustrated by the situation but there's very little we can do at the moment. Once we have the next set of samples we'll have a better idea of the timescales. 

 

So easy to say but we really have to stop relying on China. Yes it all boils down to business and corporate profit even in Toy Train Land. I would be prepared (and am) to pay extra for something UK produced.

 

Just to mention nothing  Sinophobic in any way including the events of the last 15 months.

 

As regards the 45 - no real rush Ben.

 

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28 minutes ago, 61661 said:

We are promised new samples soon. Unfortunately the factory handling this project has been badly affected by Coronavirus, not just with lockdowns but also with subsequent staff shortages. Apologies for the delay - we are extremely frustrated by the situation but there's very little we can do at the moment. Once we have the next set of samples we'll have a better idea of the timescales. 

Unfortunately you are not the only business effected, the situation globally for both raw materials and shipping will effect all our lives over the next few months/years. We just have to grin and bear it currently 

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4 hours ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

So easy to say but we really have to stop relying on China. Yes it all boils down to business and corporate profit even in Toy Train Land. I would be prepared (and am) to pay extra for something UK produced.

 

Just to mention nothing  Sinophobic in any way including the events of the last 15 months.

 

As regards the 45 - no real rush Ben.

 

To get a model produced in the UK, to the specification expected these days, we would be paying close to 6 or 7 times what we are paying at the moment.  Possibly more.

 

I work for a company who produce (amongst many other things) cheap injection moulded toys for babies.  All our tooling/moulding/assembly/packaging is done in China.  When the reality of the pandemic took hold, we looked at getting the same toys tooled and moulded in the UK.  For very basic 2/3 final-colour moulded toys we were looking at a minimum 3-fold increase in cost, so a £3 toy would then be selling for £9 minimum.  That's before we added on costs for assembly and packaging, plus the cost of getting the packaging printed and assembled.

 

These extra costs came from, in the main, the factories who would do the tooling and manufacturing (and costs remained the same as pre-pandemic).  Another factor in the uplift of costs was transportation from said factories to our distribution centre.    More expensive for a 250 mile journey in the UK than a 13,000 mile journey from China.

 

If we were to bring manufacturing (back) in house, we would have to increase costs to cover factory space, machine costs for tooling/moulding (of multiple designs), purchase and transportation of raw materials (metals, plastics, solvents), source a packaging supplier and of course staffing costs.  That £3 toy would be selling for £25 just to cover our costs.

 

This example above is for one of our toys which has 8 parts (if I can remember there are 6 moulds), 4 of those the same and is extremely basic, with no painting or printing.   These sell by the hundreds of thousands so I would hate to see the costs of a relatively low-volume UK produced item of stock with the variations and standard of printing which we demand these days.

 

Of course I would love to see models made in the UK, however is its just not feasible now for larger/established manufacturers to bring production back from the far east.  

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Just now, Monkersson said:

Of course I would love to see models made in the UK, however is its just not feasible now for larger/established manufacturers to bring production back from the far east.  

There are now several people with their fingers in their ears chanting fake news :)

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

There are now several people with their fingers in their ears chanting fake news :)

 

 

You are most probably correct, I would have been one of them before I was involved with costings in my company, and my eyes were well and truly opened!!!

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7 hours ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

So easy to say but we really have to stop relying on China. Yes it all boils down to business and corporate profit even in Toy Train Land. I would be prepared (and am) to pay extra for something UK produced.

 

Just to mention nothing  Sinophobic in any way including the events of the last 15 months.

 

As regards the 45 - no real rush Ben.

 

 

Except it isn't really a China issue - lots of companies around the world are experiencing production issues, whether because demand has exceeded their ability to make product or because production volume has decreased due to Covid prevention measures.

 

Example, look at the chip shortages causing troubles for so many like the auto industry, and the chips aren't made in China.

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9 hours ago, Monkersson said:

To get a model produced in the UK, to the specification expected these days, we would be paying close to 6 or 7 times what we are paying at the moment.  Possibly more.

 

I work for a company who produce (amongst many other things) cheap injection moulded toys for babies.  All our tooling/moulding/assembly/packaging is done in China.  When the reality of the pandemic took hold, we looked at getting the same toys tooled and moulded in the UK.  For very basic 2/3 final-colour moulded toys we were looking at a minimum 3-fold increase in cost, so a £3 toy would then be selling for £9 minimum.  That's before we added on costs for assembly and packaging, plus the cost of getting the packaging printed and assembled.

 

These extra costs came from, in the main, the factories who would do the tooling and manufacturing (and costs remained the same as pre-pandemic).  Another factor in the uplift of costs was transportation from said factories to our distribution centre.    More expensive for a 250 mile journey in the UK than a 13,000 mile journey from China.

 

If we were to bring manufacturing (back) in house, we would have to increase costs to cover factory space, machine costs for tooling/moulding (of multiple designs), purchase and transportation of raw materials (metals, plastics, solvents), source a packaging supplier and of course staffing costs.  That £3 toy would be selling for £25 just to cover our costs.

 

This example above is for one of our toys which has 8 parts (if I can remember there are 6 moulds), 4 of those the same and is extremely basic, with no painting or printing.   These sell by the hundreds of thousands so I would hate to see the costs of a relatively low-volume UK produced item of stock with the variations and standard of printing which we demand these days.

 

Of course I would love to see models made in the UK, however is its just not feasible now for larger/established manufacturers to bring production back from the far east.  


From an ethical point of view it’s not just China with all its tat. You said it with a “cheap plastic toys” point of view. Do we really need it? 
As for Primark and it’s questionable supply chain sources...... 

 

Maybe we are due a “reset”. 

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1 hour ago, Crisis Rail said:


From an ethical point of view it’s not just China with all its tat. You said it with a “cheap plastic toys” point of view. Do we really need it? 
As for Primark and it’s questionable supply chain sources...... 

 

Maybe we are due a “reset”. 

Its not just China, nor is it China's fault, and nor is it China's tat - a vast majority of the goods that China produce are commissioned by companies around the world.

 

They are cheap plastic toys, which serve no real purpose to adults, but get the attention of babies, and those of us who have raised children would have used these toys.  But it isn't just toys for babies we produce, we also make highly complex aids for those with severe learning difficulties, who's basic costs, made in China, are horrendous.

 

Maybe we do need a reset, but if you view 'tat' for babies as superfluous, then model railways are far more of a luxury

 

At the end of the day, its us consumers that demand low costs

 

Back to the HJ 45 before my thread drift, Im looking forward to see how it turns out

 

 

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7 hours ago, Monkersson said:

Its not just China, nor is it China's fault, and nor is it China's tat - a vast majority of the goods that China produce are commissioned by companies around the world.

 

They are cheap plastic toys, which serve no real purpose to adults, but get the attention of babies, and those of us who have raised children would have used these toys. 

With everything we know about plastics and their effect on the environment, perhaps we really should be questioning the continued production of cheap "tat" that gets used for a very short period and then gets thrown away as it can't be recycled. We still need plastics in many areas, such as keeping items sterile, but the rest...?  If prices went up a bit and the items were made to last longer, people might be more inclined to look after them and then hand then on when no longer needed. But more handing things down means less "made new", which is not really interesting to companies that need to make new sales to stay in business and keep people employed.

Edited by brushman47544
autocorrect
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On 09/06/2021 at 10:44, Michael Hodgson said:

Are we saying that the 45 is cheap tat?       :offtopic:

 

All will be revealed....!

 

Hopefully not as i've preordered -  but tune in on here for the long awaited scything analytical dissertations.

 

 

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On 09/06/2021 at 04:02, brushman47544 said:

With everything we know about plastics and their effect on the environment, perhaps we really should be questioning the continued production of cheap "tat" that gets used for a very short period and then gets thrown away as it can't be recycled. We still need plastics in many areas, such as keeping items sterile, but the rest...? 

 

Well, only plastic water bottles at the moment, but scientists have apparently found a way to convert plastic into artificial vanilla flavouring.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2021/06/15/scientists-convert-plastic-waste-into-vanilla-flavoring-using-bacteria/7705000002/

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9 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

Well, only plastic water bottles at the moment, but scientists have apparently found a way to convert plastic into artificial vanilla flavouring.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2021/06/15/scientists-convert-plastic-waste-into-vanilla-flavoring-using-bacteria/7705000002/

How long before we have a range of ‘taste the difference model’s’ instead of superdetail ones? 

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8 hours ago, Class 158 productions said:

How long before we have a range of ‘taste the difference model’s’ instead of superdetail ones? 

Plenty of window lickers around the hobby already, probably just a matter of time.

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On 16/06/2021 at 10:02, Class 158 productions said:

How long before we have a range of ‘taste the difference model’s’ instead of superdetail ones? 

Well Heljan already do the "ice cream van"

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 03/05/2021 at 22:24, pheaton said:

thumbnail_20210103_134912.jpg.671de97819380b263fa18d1dc555df61.jpg.d3b37f52e109e0a0a54b0d3ce83b1f73.jpg

 

The timken axle box with its 4 studs

 

thumbnail_20210103_134918.jpg.58e2c1fe792ae6b0377e0da9f1a9dcbc.jpg.9061900b239b14bda8d8818ce701ff2c.jpg

 

The SKF box with its 5 small bolts.

 

The SKF cover is a much much lighter construction, whereas the timken cover is a very heavy casting, also note the different shaped axle box on the SKF bearing.

Those engraved instruction plates look nice ! Hopefully Heljan will replicate them ? As they did on the Hymeck in 00.in tampo form  

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  • 1 month later...
5 hours ago, stovepipe said:


Update expected soon, see last paragraph.

 

 

Hope to have news to me doesn't say update expected soon! Plus if your not following that thread you wouldn't know!

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Based on experience, when a model train manufacturer says an update is hopefully soon (or shortly as Ben stated) I translate that into sometime in the next 4 to 8 weeks if it happens with a chance that it doesn't happen.

 

 

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On 14/08/2021 at 00:19, lincolnshiremodeller said:

So there is no update then? All quiet on the Eastern front? 

I've been promised an update from the factory 'shortly'. Unfortunately I can't quantify the exact timescale of that, but as soon as I have any new information or new samples we'll update everyone via www.Heljan.co.uk and our Facebook page. 

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