Left hand running - right hand drive

[george stein]

Stupid question - inspired by Modelu GWR footplate crews.  As a Yank, I understand that UK railways use left-hand running, but I'm certain I read somewhere that the GWR never-the-less, used right-hand drive and the engine driver was on the right side of the footplate - looking forward.  Must OO scale footplate crews are made for left-hand drive -- even the very impressive Modelu GWR footplate crews (as distinct from their generic Big Four crews).   Given the really open cabs of many GWR locomotives, I really think the best (accurate) footplate crew adds significantly to the overall impression of the engine.  So, was this right-hand /left-hand drive locomotive class specific, etc., etc,

 

Sounds trivial,but....

 

George

North Carolina

[gwrrob]

George. All GWR locos to my knowledge were right hand drive and the excellent Modelu figures correctly portray the drivers left hand on the regulator . Have a look on my thread or Little Muddle or Stoke Courtenay for them in position on various classes.

[timbowilts]

Note that right hand drive even extended to the two gas turbines!

Tim T

[KNP]

Agree with Rob. RH drive with LH on regulator. Be aware though, in the excellent Modelu range there is a driver with RH on the regulator, I understand that he is seated and reversing a loco so facing the wrong way....

[Joseph_Pestell]

Was GWR driver clothing particularly distinctive? Or would these do for other RHD railways?

 

I ask because I have been considering a regression to modelling Midland.

[Compound2632]

51 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

I ask because I have been considering a regression to modelling Midland.

 

Progression.

[88D]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Progression.

Careful, we might have to move you to another thread!

[Michael Edge]

Why does the driver always have to have his hand on the regulator? Why have his hands on anything at all - the driver is doing nothing most of the time and the brake handle is much more likely.

[bécasse]

It is worth noting that the Great Western certainly wasn't alone in preferring right-hand drive. Many pre-grouping companies were right-hand drive too and this was continued to some extent post-grouping - it isn't unusual to find post-grouping loco classes which included both LH and RH drive locos.

The stated reason for the preference for right-hand drive was that, with the fireman on the left-hand side of the cab, his right arm was in the right place for wielding the coal shovel.

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Why does the driver always have to have his hand on the regulator? Why have his hands on anything at all - the driver is doing nothing most of the time and the brake handle is much more likely.

 

Most models are of locations where the driver will be doing something although good point about the brake.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Reorte

[Nick Holliday]

6 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Why does the driver always have to have his hand on the regulator? Why have his hands on anything at all - the driver is doing nothing most of the time and the brake handle is much more likely.

I thought that the driver had control of the regulator and the reversing lever, whilst the fireman had control of the brake handle, which was usually located on the opposite side of the cab from the driver's position. 

[Joseph_Pestell]

18 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Progression.

 

Indeed. I only used the word regression in a chronological sense.

 

I do like Midland coach stock and also the locomotives which have pleasingly simple valve gear.

[LMS2968]

53 minutes ago, Nick Holliday said:

I thought that the driver had control of the regulator and the reversing lever, whilst the fireman had control of the brake handle, which was usually located on the opposite side of the cab from the driver's position. 

That was only the handbrake. The steam / air / vacuum brake was directly under the driver's control.

[Steamport Southport]

49 minutes ago, Nick Holliday said:

I thought that the driver had control of the regulator and the reversing lever, whilst the fireman had control of the brake handle, which was usually located on the opposite side of the cab from the driver's position. 

 

That's the handbrake, which is a "parking brake" to use a motoring term. The driver had control of all braking whilst driving.

 

Isn't this about the twelfth thread we've had on this? What's the obsession about where people stood as if you've ever been on a footplate you tend not to stand in those positions constantly.

 

I would also like to meet the fireman who fired from the extremities of the cab. He must have arms like Mr Tickle...

 

 

Jason

[george stein]

Ok - thanks for the info.  Much clearer.  Didn't intend to provoke such a cascade of comments.never know where a thread will go. Hah.

 

George

North Carolina

[88D]

On 24/05/2019 at 09:45, bécasse said:

It is worth noting that the Great Western certainly wasn't alone in preferring right-hand drive. Many pre-grouping companies were right-hand drive too and this was continued to some extent post-grouping - it isn't unusual to find post-grouping loco classes which included both LH and RH drive locos.

The stated reason for the preference for right-hand drive was that, with the fireman on the left-hand side of the cab, his right arm was in the right place for wielding the coal shovel.

From my ‘vast’ experience of firing ex GWR,LMS and BR locos, I noticed this as a distinct advantage for a right hander. I wonder whether this arrangement also led to the GWR fireman having to do more lookout duties for signals,etc.

[The Johnster]

Don't think so.  The fireman's duty obligation to look out for signals and so on is part of the Rule Book, and to the best of my knowledge the wording of the GW's book in this matter is the same as the other railways', as directed by the RCH and Board of Trade.  In practice, WR firemen working on LHD BR standard or LMS designed locos may well have been asked by their drivers, who were ultimately responsible for this sort of thing, to sight signals more frequently than those on other regions, but it would not have been codified in the Rule Book and would be difficult to quantify.

 

A GWR shovels were longer at the business end than other companys', though the handles were the same length, to enable coal to be more easily delivered to the front of the long, narrow, Churchward fireboxes (though I'm not sure what came first, the long shovels or the fireboxes, chicken and egg), and it is possible that RHD was continued on the GW at least partly in order to give the fireman room to swing the thing within the confines of the cab (not a lot of room on a 42xx or 56xx) without hitting the driver accidentally with it.  Hitting the driver on purpose with it may well have been a temptation for some of them on occasion, but that is outside the remit of this discussion and I will refrain from comment...

 

 

 

 

[Il Grifone]

On 24/05/2019 at 09:45, bécasse said:

It is worth noting that the Great Western certainly wasn't alone in preferring right-hand drive. Many pre-grouping companies were right-hand drive too and this was continued to some extent post-grouping - it isn't unusual to find post-grouping loco classes which included both LH and RH drive locos.

The stated reason for the preference for right-hand drive was that, with the fireman on the left-hand side of the cab, his right arm was in the right place for wielding the coal shovel.

 

The aforementioned Midland was one, I believe.

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Il Grifone

[88D]

On 24/05/2019 at 07:05, Michael Edge said:

Why does the driver always have to have his hand on the regulator? Why have his hands on anything at all - the driver is doing nothing most of the time and the brake handle is much more likely.

I like to have my footplate staff with as many contact points as possible: this helps them stay on board when they pass over points and sharp curves at a scale 160mph!

[The Johnster]

Mine are mostly Modelu and don't do much at all; certainly their hands are well away from any controls or the shovel.  Most locomotive work involved a lot of standing around doing nothing while 'keeping a sharp look out' or waiting for something else to happen.  Too much firing would mean blowing off at the valves and wasting steam, and causing a noise where one wasn't wanted, and shunting operations needed both men to look out of both sides of the loco.  Quite a bit of time was spent looking backwards, for 'right away' signals and to check that the train was following in good order.  A hand would be needed to hang on to something while the loco was in motion, but definitely not a control for this purpose!