Coal for Heritage Railways

[MarkC]

Apropos of nothing, I'm sure that I'm not the only one who is still bemused by how shipping biomass pellets across the Atlantic, plus getting it all to/from the ports, plus the production emissions, can be classed as <green> vs coal burning with desulphurisation facilities in the power station furnace uptakes. Is there a reputable (ie non-biased) source of data to back up this claim to be found anywhere on line?

[jonny777]

21 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

I feel sad for he next generation, denied the pleasure of "hearth rugging".

That is going to be bad for mental health.

I have recently had a 60' plus Silver Birch tree cut down and am going to share the logs with the next door neighbour. I shall have to give him the logs as the new regulation is to ban the sale of them. There are several more trees that will need felling in the next few years. That should provide enough wood to see me out.

If I stop posting you will know that they have taken me away and locked me up as an anti social misfit.

 

Bernard

 

 

 

Can I be your next door neighbour, please? 

 

I would love a supply of logs. 

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, MarkC said:

Apropos of nothing, I'm sure that I'm not the only one who is still bemused by how shipping biomass pellets across the Atlantic, plus getting it all to/from the ports, plus the production emissions, can be classed as <green> vs coal burning with desulphurisation facilities in the power station furnace uptakes. Is there a reputable (ie non-biased) source of data to back up this claim to be found anywhere on line?

Does desulphurisation remove the CO2 from coal burning?

[jonny777]

21 hours ago, Reorte said:

On the wood front it sounds like you'll be OK if you can season them first, although without a kiln that'll take a couple of years.

 

 

 

 

Er... yes. I believe most people who burn wood know this, and if they don't, they will soon find out the hard way. The secret is to have a steady supply of logs and store them in sequence, so that you only used the oldest ones which may have been there for 5-10 years. That is why rural houses on the continent will have large wood stores with what appears initially to be far more logs than is necessary for a winter supply, but they will all be at various stages of seasoning. Kiln drying is just an expensive alternative, and is energy inefficient overall. 

[MarkC]

40 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Does desulphurisation remove the CO2 from coal burning?

No, but these are the more up to date coal fired installations, so was giving Old King Coal a fighting chance in the comparison

[Bernard Lamb]

1 hour ago, jonny777 said:

 

 

Can I be your next door neighbour, please? 

 

I would love a supply of logs. 

This is my (very demanding) neighbour.

 

[AndyH]

Free miners may be able to profit from this, though unsure of the quality?

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, jonny777 said:

 

Er... yes. I believe most people who burn wood know this, and if they don't, they will soon find out the hard way. The secret is to have a steady supply of logs and store them in sequence, so that you only used the oldest ones which may have been there for 5-10 years. That is why rural houses on the continent will have large wood stores with what appears initially to be far more logs than is necessary for a winter supply, but they will all be at various stages of seasoning. Kiln drying is just an expensive alternative, and is energy inefficient overall. 

 

I was thinking from the point of view of the new legislation, although I also get the impression that quite a lot of people who have started burning wood in recent years don't actually know it.

[jchinuk]

On 24/05/2019 at 18:06, birdseyecircus said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-48398727

 

Paul

 

Looking at the Gov Website,

13.2 Coal

.

.

"Since the consultation, some have asked for heritage railways to be exempted from the proposed requirements. The government fully understands the importance of our nation’s heritage industry sectors that use coal as a source of fuel. As set out in the consultation, the proposals relate to fuels used for the purpose of domestic combustion, and will not apply to other uses such as for heritage railways. An exemption is not required for this use to continue."

..

...

 

Not an issue at present, though the cost may increase as less coal is in the market, perhaps some sort of collective purchasing deal would be sensible.

 

jh

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, jchinuk said:

 

 

Not an issue at present, though the cost may increase as less coal is in the market, perhaps some sort of collective purchasing deal would be sensible.

 

jh

I think that has already surfaced amongst heritage coal users.

Someone came up with an estimate for the total coal usage (Trains, Ships, Agricultral/Showmen's engines etc.), I think it was in Steam Railway magazine.

[didcot]

We have a wood burner and its our main source of heat. I also cook stews on it as well. Most of our friends and neighbours now give us their unwanted wood. We are cheaper than the local tip. I also trim or cut down their trees to keep our supply going. We dry the wood as well. The primary reason for having the wood burner and prior to that an open fire is the cost of gas and electricity. We simply cannot afford to regularly heat the house throughout the colder months using the central heating. We put it on for an hour so that the boys rooms warm up during the evening, but that's it. The utility companies make massive profits ( I know they need to make money) but they need capping and until that happens we will continue to burn whatever we can to stay warm.  

[doilum]

On 22/02/2020 at 10:33, MarkC said:

No, but these are the more up to date coal fired installations, so was giving Old King Coal a fighting chance in the comparison

Now closed, Ferrybridge C was fitted with limestone scrubbers. A train of limestone was delivered each week or so and used to chemically filter the sulphur dioxide out of the smoke and reduce the export of acid rain to Scandinavia. The limestone waste was used as a gypsum substitute to produce plasterboard.

[Dava]

Our local gypsum factory at Hotchley Hill [Rushcliffe] receives trainloads of the limestone waste as gypsum feedstock. I assumed it would end as coal burning power stations in the UK closed, but was advised on this forum that the trains now come from powerstations in Germany.

 

Imported wood pellets fuelled the 'renewables' fuel scam in Northern Ireland which stalled the Assembly for a couple of years owing to Arlene Foster's culpability [choosing words carefully]. At the time we could not buy it for cat litter in Canada as all supplies went to Ulster. 

 

The final logistics conundrum is that the ending of house coal risks closing the UK coal distribution system which supplies rail and other steam heritage operators with coal. See the HRA report and Steam Railway current issue 502 for uptodate details. But the remaining anthracite open cast mine in South Wales produces very low emission coals ideal for steaming [esp GWR locos] however it has a very limited life and unlikely to be economic or granted planning permission for an extension or new working.....partly because of lack of future demand, viability, and local opposition to open casting. Similar picture in the North East and Scotland.

 

So we do have low emission coals produced in the UK, ample reserves which also supply industrial users, but quite likely not mined for much longer.

 

Dava

Edited February 24, 2020 by Dava
Update

[Reorte]

Another power station to gypsum plant train was Drax to Kirkby Thore, when that started it was the first regular freight on the Settle-Carlisle for quite some time and I suppose in hindsight a good sign of the renaissance of the line's fortunes.

 

[Grovenor]