Bournemouth line 2 digit headcodes.

[steve1023]

I have been researching a change of headcode for a couple of my class 33s. The era would be mid to late sixties and one headcode that seems to crop up an awful lot in my books (especially on services seemingly heading towards Bournemouth and Weymouth) is C2. When did the use of 91, 92, 93 etc become common use on the Bournemouth line services and also can anyone tell me a bit about the use of headcode C2.

 

Seperately I have an image of one Crompton (same timeframe as above) between Bournemouth & Weymouth displaying headcode 15, but again cannot find any information related to it's use.

 

Any help appreciated.

Regards

Steve

[Oldddudders]

Bournemouth electrification was completed on 10th June 1967. Until then there would have been few trains - only a handful of Cl 47s - capable of displaying a 2-digit numeric headcode. From that date the 91-3 denoted the passenger services. The C1 etc codes would have been used on Cromptons (33s) or 47s. The SeMG website might help you. 

[lapford34102]

4 hours ago, steve1023 said:

Seperately I have an image of one Crompton (same timeframe as above) between Bournemouth & Weymouth displaying headcode 15, but again cannot find any information related to it's use.

 

Hi,

Date photo was taken would be useful plus any info on train formation, eg TC, loco hauled stock, etc

 

Quote

Until then there would have been few trains - only a handful of Cl 47s - capable of displaying a 2-digit numeric headcode.

There were plenty of Cromptons around for a good year or so before steam ended unless of course you are referring to steam hauled trains.

 

Stu

[DY444]

9 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Bournemouth electrification was completed on 10th June 1967. Until then there would have been few trains - only a handful of Cl 47s - capable of displaying a 2-digit numeric headcode. From that date the 91-3 denoted the passenger services. The C1 etc codes would have been used on Cromptons (33s) or 47s. The SeMG website might help you. 

 

Ahem.  10th July 1967.

[DY444]

There are photos about of REP powered formations running before the introduction of full electric working with headcodes that don't appear in any of the lists I've seen (eg "55" and "98") and other formations carrying headcodes which don't make sense for the location (eg your "15" example).

 

Edit.  "98" was of course Swanage as pointed out below.  Should have remembered that.  1530 Waterloo - Swanage was a regular Class 74 turn for a while.

Edited May 28, 2019 by DY444

[br2975]

During the era of my interest, early 70s, "2C" was Fawley - Waddon Marsh via Wimbledon and return. 

.

don't know about "C2" sorry.

[br2975]

During the era of my interest, early 70s, "2C" was Fawley - Waddon Marsh via Wimbledon and return. 

.

don't know about "C2" sorry.

[steve1023]

Hi guys. Thanks for replying. I have been going back through my books again today and I have lost count of the number of times I've seen the use of C2, always on Cromptons on passenger trains as far north as Woking and as far south as Weymouth, including diversions over the Mid Hants and at Bournemouth West with formations that would suggest London Express services or in 1 instance a Southampton - Bournemouth 3 coach local. With the exception of 1 photo the trains are always conventional LHCS. The 1 exception is of D6554 with 8TC near Woking heading towards London displaying C2 (image dated Feb 67) this is latest dated image I could find with the use of the C2 headcode.

 

The earliest image I have found with one of the 9x headcodes is dated April 1967, so maybe a change occurred at some point around that time. I would love to know the scope that C2 covered.

 

On the use of headcode 15 I have found a 2nd image of its use (actually one is on a very old VHS tape I probably bought in the late 80s). Both are of 33/0 hauling 4TC between Poole and Weymouth - the image is dated May 67. I understand that at this time (i.e. prior to the end of steam) that there were local trains from Bournemouth to Weymouth rather than a through portion from London or a through train so I did wonder if 15 was maybe a short term use for a Bournemouth to Weymouth local....

 

Regards

 

steve 

Edited May 27, 2019 by steve1023
Spelling error

[robertcwp]

I have no idea about C2 either but 02 was the code for empty stock to the up loop at Clapham Junction, often used for empties off of overnight newspaper and other trains.

 

Post 10 July 1967, 98 was Waterloo-Swanage:

 

74_Wimbledon_JUN-69 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[RFS]

If you have look at this photo, and then go forwards from there, there's a wide range of alphanumeric head codes on class 33s both on passenger and freight. On passenger there's C2, 2C, 9G, 3A, G2 etc.  Perhaps these were used before the introduction of the 9n codes for the Bournemouth line.

 

https://railphotoprints.uk/p735303296/e13eb5bd5

Edited May 27, 2019 by RFS

[30851]

On 27/05/2019 at 14:52, RFS said:

If you have look at this photo, and then go forwards from there, there's a wide range of alphanumeric head codes on class 33s both on passenger and freight. On passenger there's C2, 2C, 9G, 3A, G2 etc.  Perhaps these were used before the introduction of the 9n codes for the Bournemouth line.

 

https://railphotoprints.uk/p735303296/e13eb5bd5

 

The truly excellent book Southern Steam Operations 1966 - 1967 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Southern-Steam-Operation-1966-67-Simpson/dp/0711038678/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=Southern+Steam+Operations+1966+-+1967&qid=1559086960&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmr0 contains a selection of the codes used on the Bournemouth line. The   C2, 2C, 9G, 3A, G2 are the pre 1967 codes and directly correspond to the head codes used on Steam engines. If it started with a number then it was a class 1 to 3 train - if it started with a letter then it was class 4 to 9 train.

 

2C was Waterloo or Nine Elms and Bournemouth (class 1 to 3 trains)

C2 was Waterloo or Nine Elms and Bournemouth (class 4 to 9 trains)

 

9G was Waterloo and Lymington Pier.

3A  was Clapham and Chessington South or Brockenhurst and Lymington Pier or Wareham and Swanage.

 

G2 isn't listed (but if you care G1 was Waterloo to Portsmouth via Eastleigh).

 

 

The new codes came into use 6 Mar 1967 (although some documents mentioned them from 5 Dec 1966). 15 was one of the new codes - it was Bournemouth - Weymouth.

 

 

Rob

 

[slilley]

18 hours ago, 30851 said:

 

The truly excellent book Southern Steam Operations 1966 - 1967 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Southern-Steam-Operation-1966-67-Simpson/dp/0711038678/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=Southern+Steam+Operations+1966+-+1967&qid=1559086960&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmr0 contains a selection of the codes used on the Bournemouth line. The   C2, 2C, 9G, 3A, G2 are the pre 1967 codes and directly correspond to the head codes used on Steam engines. If it started with a number then it was a class 1 to 3 train - if it started with a letter then it was class 4 to 9 train.

 

2C was Waterloo or Nine Elms and Bournemouth (class 1 to 3 trains)

C2 was Waterloo or Nine Elms and Bournemouth (class 4 to 9 trains)

 

9G was Waterloo and Lymington Pier.

3A  was Clapham and Chessington South or Brockenhurst and Lymington Pier or Wareham and Swanage.

 

G2 isn't listed (but if you care G1 was Waterloo to Portsmouth via Eastleigh).

 

 

The new codes came into use 6 Mar 1967 (although some documents mentioned them from 5 Dec 1966). 15 was one of the new codes - it was Bournemouth - Weymouth.

 

 

Rob

 

 

Rob

 

Thank you for posting this. I have several pictures of 33s displaying some of these headcodes which may well get use din my book on the class due out next year. This info helps make sense of a few things.

 

many thanks

 

Simon

[30851]

6 hours ago, slilley said:

 

Rob

 

Thank you for posting this. I have several pictures of 33s displaying some of these headcodes which may well get use din my book on the class due out next year. This info helps make sense of a few things.

 

many thanks

 

Simon

 

Hi Simon,

 

Glad to here that it will be put to good use! As I intend to buy your upcoming book I will list the other codes mentioned over the weekend in case they are of use.

 

 

Rob

[steve1023]

Hi Rob. Many thanks for posting that information. Embarrassingly for me I actually have the book you mention - didn't think to look in there. On the class of train - does that work in the same way as today in that a class 1 train is an express train, class 2 local etc, etc?

 

RFS - Thanks posting the link to the photo site - some interesting stuff in there.

[roythebus]

I organised a visit to Waterloo Signalbox for the Model Railway club in the 1980s and was surprised to see the 98 Swanage headcode still on the train describers even though the swanage line had been closed for quite a while.

 

I also have a cine film I took at Raynes Park on the last day of steam and it shows a Brush Type 4 on an up train with 91 headcode in the 4-character headcode box.

[robertcwp]

47 showing 92:

 

D1925_Vauxhall_0830_Wloo-Weym_31-3-67 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

[John Young]

Here's a photo I took in 1964 of a Crompton displaying a C2 headcode.  It has stopped on the down line at Woodfidley Crossing signal box (89 miles 59 chains) between Beaulieu Road and Brockenhurst to deliver cans of drinking water for the box and railway cottages as there was no mains water.  Jim Roderick the signalman is waiting with the empties.  Coal in sacks, lamp oil and any other requisites were all delivered in this way.  The coal allowance was not much so firemen of steam loco's would often heave the odd large lump over the side if they were held at the down home.  The number of the Crompton is lost in the mists of time but a loco often used on this duty was D6585. 

Edited June 10, 2021 by John Young
Grammar correction.

[Morello Cherry]

A couple of photos with these codes have appeared on flickr taken at Vauxhall. A 33 in 1966 with the headcode B9.  What service would this be?

 

 

A milk train at Vauxhall with the headcode B6.

 

 

[30851]

7 hours ago, Morello Cherry said:

A couple of photos with these codes have appeared on flickr taken at Vauxhall. A 33 in 1966 with the headcode B9.  What service would this be?

 

 

A milk train at Vauxhall with the headcode B6.

 

 

 

I think these are trains leaving Waterloo  - if so then I see the following

 

B9 = Waterloo and Southhampton Eastern Docks (boat train).

B6 = Waterloo and Clapham Junction (ECS)

 

 

Rob 

[D7666]

>>> G2 isn't listed

 

G2 was Brighton / Exeter BEFORE it went DEMU; i.e. when it was loco hauled BEFORE summer 1972; when it went DEMU IIRC it was 11 [?] ; then when it went back to LH it was not G2 but something else.

 

I do not know when G2 came into being, but it was certainly G2 in 1969 1970 and 1971.

 

>>> 98

 

Waterloo / Swanage ; the link below says "Swanage branch" but the through Waterloos carried 98; same applied to Lymington, these were 97 branch or Waterloo through.

 

see

https://sremg.org.uk/headcodes/eheadcodes/eheadcodes01.html

 

The reason G2 could not be used when the train went DEMU is EMU and DEMU have only numeric number blinds and no letters. This is also why anything that was routinely TC operated push pull even with 33s had two numbers and not number/letters as the TC could only show numbers.

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by D7666