Hornby announce additions to 2019 range

[truffy]

6 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

What was the exciting announcement? Anyone knows?

 

The person(s) making the exciting announcement know, but the rest of us will have to wait until 08.06.

 

I'm so pumped!

[phil-b259]

2 hours ago, Metr0Land said:

The real 977993 OHPL coach has a pantograph.  Is this just incorrect artwork or a compromise that has to be made given costs of tooling?

 

 

I would be extremely surprised if the model turned out to have a pantograph - that would require new tooling and where as simply churning out a bog standard Mk3 TSO with a NR paint job is a quick, easy and cheap.

 

Its also the case that these sorts of mid year 'extras' are normally simply because some extra production slots have become available for Hornby to make use of if they can come up with something ASAP. Hence we are talking existing tooling for all the items Hornby have announced (Hornby said ages ago the terrier tooling included options for an IOW bunker - they just didn't chose to make any in the inital release).

[gc4946]

They could announce a class 375 Electrostar ...

or a 4SUB, which the surviving unit is stored in their former Margate factory

[gc4946]

156 401-442 were first branded "Sprinter"; 156 443-500 had "SuperSprinter" branding from new http://members.madasafish.com/~dysgraphyk/156/class156_liv-pr.htm

 

Hornby's forthcoming model depicts 156 401 when new. Depot allocations in BR days are available via this link http://members.madasafish.com/~dysgraphyk/156/class156_depots.htm

Edited May 29, 2019 by gc4946
Added link to BR depot allocation data

[montyburns56]

7 hours ago, John M Upton said:

A hundred and twenty five sheets for the old Lima 156?

 

Crikey...

 

Perhaps it's to pay for it's upcoming thirtieth birthday party. 

[Ravenser]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Biggest open goal in the business at the moment is the Swindon 3-car Cross Country dmu, Class 120.  Just saying...

 

And at current prices that would be at least £350....

 

I think multiple units could be the first real casualty of the RTR price spiral. We may well have reached the point where a new 4 car EMU simply has too high a price point to be commercially viable.

 

Re-runs of multiple units from existing tooling will remain viable but it may be that the window of opportunity for new DMU/EMU models is rapidly closing

[Ouroborus]

The forthcoming grey blue  Blue Pullman will be an interesting watch.

[The Johnster]

Coalfish are less of a bargain even at £60 for 3 when you look at the huge ugly antediluvian pre-NEM couplers and consequent difficulty of converting to NEM standard; these and the Coca Colas are very old toolings.  But it's good news overall that H are continuing to think in terms of new liveries and keeping up the pressure after the tremendous January effort that has provided my WR BLT with the best non-gangwayed coaches it's ever had!  No sign of laurels being rested on here!

 

When an announcement is announced, it is for the exciting build excitement, especially if it is billed excitedly as an exciting exciting announcement.  Marketing hype of this sort is designed to draw attention to what would otherwise be a fairly ordinary open day event that H are attending; now they have guaranteed that people will be gathering around the stand at about 10.29, excitedly.  The actual announcement may or may not actually be exciting, and this is where the ploy can backfire; excited punters told unexciting news go away disappointed and deflated, and the intended positive experience becomes negative.  But we will watch with interest, which is exactly what H want

[truffy]

There is nothing in AY's OP that suggests that the exciting announcement is from the Big H. I think that we are assuming as much because the exciting announcement was announced in this thread, which is not that exciting other than the promised exciting announcement.

 

I think I may be losing bladder control!

[locoholic]

1 hour ago, Ravenser said:

 

And at current prices that would be at least £350....

 

I think multiple units could be the first real casualty of the RTR price spiral. We may well have reached the point where a new 4 car EMU simply has too high a price point to be commercially viable.

 

Re-runs of multiple units from existing tooling will remain viable but it may be that the window of opportunity for new DMU/EMU models is rapidly closing

We've had all such doom-laden predictions before. I distinctly remember someone saying that no-one would make new RTR wagon models because the tooling costs were almost the same as a loco, but the sale price was much less. Then Accurascale made their lovely wagons...

[KDG]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Coalfish are less of a bargain even at £60 for 3 when you look at the huge ugly antediluvian pre-NEM couplers and consequent difficulty of converting to NEM standard; 

*snip*

Pretty sure all my 20+ coalfish all  have nem mini straight  tension lock couplers

Edited May 29, 2019 by KDG
Add more couplind detail

[Dungrange]

4 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

What was the exciting announcement? Anyone knows?

 

Given that the event is on 8th June and this is only 29th May, you've a week and a half to wait!!!

[Pteremy]

4 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

What was the exciting announcement? Anyone knows?

 

Not 8th June yet?

[Dungrange]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Coalfish are less of a bargain even at £60 for 3 when you look at the huge ugly antediluvian pre-NEM couplers and consequent difficulty of converting to NEM standard; these and the Coca Colas are very old toolings.

 

The Coalfish are not old toolings.  Hornby upgraded the chassis on their HAA Merry Go Round Hoppers around 2003 to include NEM pockets and narrow tension lock couplings before the Coalfish was first released.  All Coalfish have used this new chassis, so if you have any Coalfish with large pre-NEM couplings, then they must have been bought secondhand with the original owner doing a chassis swap before selling on.  The first version of the body was incorrect, but the tooling was subsequently corrected to represent the first batch of 400 after poor reviews.  I've bought some of the early Hornby models to use the chassis with the S-Kits body to represent the more recent build.

 

The price doesn't seem too much higher than a few years ago, but I'm not sure I have any need for more (albeit I may still end up getting three more)!!

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, bart2day said:

So these were what was on display in Kernow model centre at the beginning of May. 

Funny thing is not only did I look at them, but I had them in my hands at Kernows openday....

and it still didn't twig these were mk3’s not the announced mk2’s.

my brains failing...

 

it was only when it was pointed out to me that I recalled they were mk3’s I was looking at (i’d assumed they were already announced)... you can tell it wasn't on my number 1 list.

[The Johnster]

The ones in the picture in the link have the older type couplings, you can see from the hook profile.  The picture may not represent the current production of course, and as this does apparently have NEM couplings I am happy to retract my comment; £60 for 3 sounds like excellent value for money for a long wheelbase modern wagon that might be expected to go for £30+ a pop.

[YesTor]

6 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

And at current prices that would be at least £350....

 

I think multiple units could be the first real casualty of the RTR price spiral. We may well have reached the point where a new 4 car EMU simply has too high a price point to be commercially viable.

 

The Class 800 seems to be doing just fine?  Okay, a typically high-profile, high-speed, front-line subject I realize - when compared to a humble Class 120 anyway - but nevertheless...

[Hilux5972]

4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The ones in the picture in the link have the older type couplings, you can see from the hook profile.  The picture may not represent the current production of course, and as this does apparently have NEM couplings I am happy to retract my comment; £60 for 3 sounds like excellent value for money for a long wheelbase modern wagon that might be expected to go for £30+ a pop.

We all know Hornbys propensity for using incorrect marketing images. 

[MGR Hooper!]

7 hours ago, Dungrange said:

 

Given that the event is on 8th June and this is only 29th May, you've a week and a half to wait!!!

 

7 hours ago, Pteremy said:

 

Not 8th June yet?

My mistake, didn't read the date. Assumed it was yesterday.....

 

Cheers!

[Ozexpatriate]

I can think of someone who might really like those yellow things.

[Legend]

10 hours ago, locoholic said:

We've had all such doom-laden predictions before. I distinctly remember someone saying that no-one would make new RTR wagon models because the tooling costs were almost the same as a loco, but the sale price was much less. Then Accurascale made their lovely wagons...

 

I think Ravensers basically correct though . The prices being asked have just got out of control . So a 3 or 4 car EMU or DMU from the traditional  manufacturers is probably unlikely . But you are also correct in that Accurascale and Cavalex with their direct selling model are bringing something new to the market . Accurascale with a 5 car TPE set £225 thats not bad . OK its not got a motor but I have read elsewhere that thats not necesserily that expensive . 

 

I will get a Hornby Inter7City HST and Mk3s , but the cost of that will be going on for £350-£400 . I fancy East Coast HST and Azumas too but I’m not prepared to pay that for a hobby, so they will need to wait or just be permanently on hold . 

[Ravenser]

12 hours ago, locoholic said:

We've had all such doom-laden predictions before. I distinctly remember someone saying that no-one would make new RTR wagon models because the tooling costs were almost the same as a loco, but the sale price was much less. Then Accurascale made their lovely wagons...

 

I think that may have been DJM - whose announcements were loco-heavy. Heljan too have been almost all locos. I don't really believe the claim about tooling costs though

 

But my comments were in the light of the class 158 situation , where the new model is listed at over £250 for a 2 car unit , and may well climb further before it is finally released . I'm simply not in the market to replace my existing Bachmann 158s and 170 for that sort of money. A 3 car unit would presumably be well over £300. I bought my existing units at bargain prices - I eventually succumbed to a 2 car Central unit for about £70 - but new-release RTR DMUs are now reaching prices where any further additions to the fleet will involve building DC Kits from the cupboard.

 

Others will take their own views , but if Bachmann or Hornby were to announce a new 4 car EMU in January , for delivery some time in mid 2021 (optimistic with Bachmann I know) the price on release will be over £400 . That really must curb the sales, which pushes the unit price higher, which restricts sales still further....

 

The blue/grey Blue Pullmans are a re-run from existing tooling - which has probably already recovered its development cost. Commercially something of a free-hit for Bachmann, and a very different proposition

 

We will continue to see re-releases of existing tooling. But would it really now be viable for someone to tool up an all new 4-car third-rail EMU?  The Bachmann 4-CEP and Hornby 4-VEP might be all we see in that line for a generation

[The Johnster]

It doesn't matter how much we moan, it'll cost what it costs.  £400 for a HST set, but how does that compare to a Pacific and 12 of the latest Thompsons, or a Castle and a dozen Hawksworths.  Or a 28xx and 60 coal wagons which have to come from Bachmann to be the right wheelbase at £20 a pop.

 

The problem with a multiple unit train is that it has to be bought all at once as opposed to built up with individual purchases over time, which is scary money for those of us on limited incomes (and even Pete Waterman's income is limited eventually).  Perhaps the hobby is reverting to the pre WW2 days when it was very much a rich man's game, and I can foresee multiple unit trains being marketed complete as sets and credit deals being offered.

 

One must cut one's cloth... in my case lack of space limits me to a small BLT anyway, but my income supports the concept that a large layout with realistically long main line trains is not for me.  It comes down to individual choice as to what sort of railway you want and can afford, the two not always being the same thing.  I am lucky in that I have and can afford the railway I want, and it makes me very happy, and fortunate in having been able to complete my loco purchasing (mostly; I'm still waiting for my Bachmann 94xx which is going to be £125 at the moment and may well cost more by the time it is released) at a time when 6 coupled tank locos could be had new for less than £100.  My largest single purchases have been at the £80 level, a shop offer 42xx and a pair of Hornby Collett Suburbans (I am a regular customer and things are sometimes 'rounded down for cash' for me), I am sure many of you can easily beat this!  Without getting the begging bowl out and playing the violin, I live on a small occupational pension and the standard state pension, fairly frugally, and there are other things to spend my limited disposable on besides trains.

 

Costs are rising because labour costs in China where the models are made are rising. The Chinese production model is labour intensive and subcontracted to very small manufacturers, parts are collected to larger assembly and packing facilities, yet QC is largely maintained at a very high level and it's all very efficient; they are very good at this.  Another way to look at it would be that we have been benefitting for several decades from the fairly ruthless exploitation by their own subcontractors of people who were prepared, not that they had much choice, to work hard long hours for a pittance and go everywhere on bicycles; we told ourselves they were happy with a bowl of rice every day, but we were deluded fools if we ever really believed that!  Communists are very good at some the less attractive aspects of red in toof'n'claw capitalism.  The Chinese workers have wised up and are no longer prepared to do this, and I for one don't blame them; they work hard and want nice places to live, flatscreen tvs, computers, nice clothes, cars, and 2 holidays a year just the same as we do for working hard; good for them!  

 

This is a hobby and most hobbies are expensive, but depend on the disposable income of their participants.  If you think this is expensive, just try getting seriously into fishing or photography, restoring cars, or art collecting.  Don't even think about boating, it'll give you nightmares.  There is a top limit to what people will pay even if they are wealthy enough to afford it, though, as Hornby Dublo found out.  It is still not cost effective to manufacture in volume in the UK, which is why the big players outsource to China.

[Dunsignalling]

20 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

And at current prices that would be at least £350....

 

I think multiple units could be the first real casualty of the RTR price spiral. We may well have reached the point where a new 4 car EMU simply has too high a price point to be commercially viable.

 

Re-runs of multiple units from existing tooling will remain viable but it may be that the window of opportunity for new DMU/EMU models is rapidly closing

Only if it came in a blue box.

 

Going by their super-detail coach prices, I reckon Hornby should be able to bring a 3-car Class 120 in at around the £200 mark without too much difficulty.

 

Effectively three coaches, at roughly fifty quid each, plus another fifty for the bits to make it go.

 

John

 

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[classy52]

37 minutes ago, Richard Croft said:

The Network rail coaches are a smart move, people have been paying silly money for the original coach packs on eBay. And people will buy them to run with the mk2’s that Hornby releasing too so there’s loads of potential customers. More good decisions from Hornby. 

 

Richard

 

But are these Hornby Network Rail coaches actually prototypical or just pretending to be what they are on tarted up old tooling?

What % of these 3 new NR coaches would be classed as prototypical?...50% there, 70%, 90% or no worries mate they're exactly as the real thing.

Too be honest I wouldn't mind knowing if anyone can elaborate with their knowledge of NR coaches.

Edited May 30, 2019 by classy52